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Mystikmind
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Whats a good video card to buy?

January 9, 2007 6:20:14 PM from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Hi
I have $400 Australian dollars ($312 US) to spend on a Video card for my computer

I have a x86 15 family model 12 stepping 0 authenticAMD 2009 mhz system with 1024mb ram and a gigabyte radeon 9600 pro 256mb ram video card.

Should i even get a video card? my pc is over a year old.... problem is, it is an AMD system, so if i upgrade the motherboard or cpu then i cannot use the old one to upgrade my second computer since it is an Pentium pc.

When i think about why i purchased the AMD in the first place i realise that dousn't matter much though. I purchased the AMD system because Intel were giving me the shits with incompatability issues along the timeline of their own lineage of computers thus preventing follow on upgrading anyway.
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Mystikmind
kryo
Join Date 05/2003
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Reply #1 January 9, 2007 7:18:37 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
The best you can do with an AGP based system is a Radeon X1950, but good luck finding one of those. The top nVidia card on AGP is a 7800GS which is a good bit weaker (GS is the lower-end version of the card, they don't have the better 7800s in AGP).

Personally I'd advise you to go with a cheaper but still good card like a Radeon X850 (~USD$130) if anything, and save the rest for a future upgrade of the rest of the system, or a new system entirely.
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Mystikmind
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Reply #2 January 9, 2007 7:42:21 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Thank you kindly for the advice Kryo.

I prefer the idea of a complete upgrade - i can do that with US$300 here in Australia, if i don't have to buy a new cpu. So it depends on how compatible new AMD motherboards are with older AMD cpu's?

I don't mind having a nice powerful system bottlenecked by the older cpu for a while.

Ok so what's a good AMD motherboard? ram? and video card combination?
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kryo
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Reply #3 January 9, 2007 7:52:04 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
So it depends on how compatible new AMD motherboards are with older AMD cpu's?


That depends entirely on which kind of socket you have. I have no idea what the family and model numbers come out to (and couldn't figure it out with google, even!), so I'm not at all sure what kind of AMD CPU you've got. Your GC2 debug.err should tell specifically, though, right in the first paragraph.
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Mystikmind
Mystikmind
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Reply #4 January 9, 2007 8:36:56 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Your GC2 debug.err should tell specifically, though, right in the first paragraph.



I'll have to look it up. I hope AMD are not going to piss me off with incompatability issues.... i'll run streight back into the arms of intel if that happens.
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Mumblefratz
Join Date 07/2006
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Reply #5 January 9, 2007 8:59:57 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
I'll have to look it up. I hope AMD are not going to piss me off with incompatability issues.... i'll run streight back into the arms of intel if that happens.

Actually, I think you're screwed. I checked out your socket from your earlier post about whether to buy a mobo and memory or a video card. I didn't respond to your earlier post because I really didn't have any good advice for you, but if you're stuck with an AMD only socket that's being replaced by the AM2 socket and you don't have PCI-E you probably should go for the motherboard. The problem is that it will probably end up being a whole new system that you need. No way to get that out of $400.

Perhaps, you could take the $400 from your wife and add another $600 or so and get a complete new system. But then of course you'll owe your wife another present for the difference. Funny how it always seems to work out that way.   

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Mumblefratz
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Reply #6 January 9, 2007 9:13:12 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Yeah I looked up "family 15 model 12" and got Socket 939 which is the AMD only socket that's being replaced by the AM2 (another AMD only) socket. I think your best bet is to go for a LGA 775 socket motherboard and an Intel Core 2 Duo. But like I said you'll end up pretty much buying a complete new system.
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DethAdder
Join Date 02/2004
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Reply #7 January 9, 2007 9:16:03 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Sounds like you have an XP2800 or so. That's a socket A(socket462) cpu. You'd be hard pressed to find a mobo with that socket that's anywhere near current. Good thing is for the money you have, you can get a cpu/mobo combo that will be a lot better than what you have. I suggest checking out pricewatch.com and you can see what your options are.

Edit: wrong family sorry ,I dug a little deeper not a socket A, but the pricewatch advice still stands. I've gottan some good cpu/mobo combos for under $200 there.
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Reply #8 January 9, 2007 9:26:48 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
I didn't respond to your earlier post because I really didn't have any good advice for you


That's ok, i posted in the wrong category anyway.



Yeah I looked up "family 15 model 12" and got Socket 939 which is the AMD only socket that's being replaced by the AM2 (another AMD only) socket. I think your best bet is to go for a LGA 775 socket motherboard and an Intel Core 2 Duo. But like I said you'll end up pretty much buying a complete new system.



Eeegad, these computer companies are really set on stamping out upgrading arn't they?
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kryo
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Reply #9 January 9, 2007 9:31:26 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Yeah I looked up "family 15 model 12" and got Socket 939 which is the AMD only socket that's being replaced by the AM2 (another AMD only) socket.


On the upgrade route though, there are still plenty of 939 PCIe motherboards out there. Further research seems to indicate that a 15/12 is a Newcastle core though, which may mean you've got a socket 754 based version. In that case, your upgrade options are more limited, but there are still 754 motherboards available with PCIe.

The downside to keeping the same processor is that it's a dead-end upgrade, as regardless what you have it's already on the way out. You would, however, be able to keep a new PCIe video card across the next upgrade, but really if you're going to go that far you might as well go all the way as mumble says. Right now Intel's got the better end of the performance range, and at pretty good prices. But it is likely to cost more than you've got for upgrades if you opt to overhaul completely.
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Mumblefratz
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Reply #10 January 9, 2007 9:46:26 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
The "Family 15 Model 12 Stepping 0" processor is an AMD Athlon 64 3200+ 2.0GHz which is definitely a Socket 939 device and is consistent with the OP's description from the other thread.

I have a x86 15 family model 12 stepping 0 authenticAMD 2009 mhz system

A socket T (LGA 775) motherboard will run you about $125~150. Another $320 for a e6600 processor and $125 for a pair of 512MB DDR2/800 ram would be the basis of a nice system that could last as long as anything else could. Of course you'd still need the PCI-E video card.
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Mystikmind
Mystikmind
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Reply #11 January 9, 2007 10:19:08 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums

Allot of great advice here to consider.

I remember what a good run with upgrading i had with the pentium systems before they killed upgrading nice and dead with the release of the p4 system. I guess all the computer companies realised they were on a winner to stop old components being compatible!
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Mystikmind
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Reply #12 January 9, 2007 10:54:30 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums

On careful consideration I don't think i'm going to bother upgrading my system at all this year.

It seems as though any money i try to spend to improve my current system is going to be an inneficient benefit for the cost compared to a complete new system?
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kryo
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Reply #13 January 9, 2007 11:02:27 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
It seems as though any money i try to spend to improve my current system is going to be an inneficient benefit for the cost compared to a complete new system?


Pretty much. It'll cost more up front, but an all-new system will last longer before needing another upgrade, and give you better experiences in games in the meanwhile.
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Reply #14 January 9, 2007 11:25:33 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Pretty much. It'll cost more up front, but an all-new system will last longer before needing another upgrade, and give you better experiences in games in the meanwhile.



Ok, sound advice Kryo.

I have two other computers... a P4 1700mhz and a P2 400mhz. My wife uses the P4 to play multiplayer games with me and to use the internet. I use the P2 system as my internet server.

So i could simply give the AMD system to my wife, sell the P4 system, add that money to my $300US and perhaps end up with enough cash to buy a nice system?
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V1mFuego
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Reply #15 January 10, 2007 9:00:07 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
It's a good time to jump on the dual-core bandwagon. An E6300, a decent P965 chipset board and a gig of DDR2-667 with a 7900GS will make for a very capable and upgradable system.
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kryo
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Reply #16 January 10, 2007 10:46:06 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
So i could simply give the AMD system to my wife, sell the P4 system, add that money to my $300US and perhaps end up with enough cash to buy a nice system?


What you do with the systems is your choice, but I really doubt you would get enough money out of a desktop more than a year or two old to make it worth bothering with (a laptop would still go for a decent amount, though).
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Evil Stormbringer
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Reply #17 January 10, 2007 12:14:08 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
It's a good time to jump on the dual-core bandwagon. An E6300, a decent P965 chipset board and a gig of DDR2-667 with a 7900GS will make for a very capable and upgradable system.


Just don't forget to make sure the psu has enough power to handle what you are going to do...
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Reply #18 January 10, 2007 4:19:40 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
What you do with the systems is your choice, but I really doubt you would get enough money out of a desktop more than a year or two old to make it worth bothering with (a laptop would still go for a decent amount, though).



Yea, old sustem i might get $100 bucks on Ebay. It is funny to watch people trying to sell their pc's on ebay after paying $5000 dollars for it brand new - then wonder why they carn't get any bids on $500 bucks! The value fades quick smart with computers!!
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Reply #19 January 12, 2007 8:55:55 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
On the upgrade route though, there are still plenty of 939 PCIe motherboards out there.


Not only are there a bunch out there, the price is under 200.00. Add the gcard and you're looking at another 200.00 to 350.00 pending on what you get. I've had no issues with my 7600GT and it is SLI ready so I'm set for the future if I decide to run two cards. Newegg is where I did most of my research on pricing and compatibility. Check it out before surrendering.
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Reply #20 January 12, 2007 11:19:04 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
OUTPUT
Voltage

+5V

+3.3V

+12V1

+12V2

+12V3

-12V

+5VSB
Max. Load

30A

24A

12A

21A

13A

0.5A

2.5A
Min Load

0.5A

0.8A

1.0A

1.0A

1.0A

0.0A

0.1A
Peak Load

--

--

--

--

--

--

3.5A
(15 sec)
Combined Power

180W

380W

6W

12.5W
Load Reg.

+5,-5%

+5,-5%

+5,-5%

+5,-5%

+5,-5%

+10,-10%

+5,-5%
Ripple V(p-p)

100 mV

100 mV

200 mV

200 mV

200 mV

200 mV

100 mV
Hey Kryo, in case you see this... will this be a good power supply as far as amp output?
Sorry the paste job sucks, but from what I gather the 12v/2 is 21amps and the 12v/1 is 12amps. Not really sure but I thought you said to be pushing a min. of 28amps at 12v.
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Mystikmind
kryo
Join Date 05/2003
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Reply #21 January 12, 2007 11:30:27 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
The amperage should be fine from the looks of it (depending on which connectors are on which rails), though of course you'll want to check out reviews to ensure it's a quality model, etc. 
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Mystikmind
Mumblefratz
Join Date 07/2006
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Reply #22 January 12, 2007 12:00:42 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
That ripple doesn't look very good to me. Standard power supply figure of merit is usually 50 mV p-p. This isn't necessarily a killer because all significant mobo voltages will be driven by DC-DC converters that are usually relatively immune from supply side ripple. However, this does indicate that this isn't what I would consider a top quality supply.

The ATX12V Power Supply Design Guide Version 2.2 doesn't mention a +12V3DC rail. I'd assume (you know what you get when you assume) that it's dedicated for a second video card. 12A each for two video cards and 21A for processor sounds beefy enough for me.

[edit]

Actually these ripple numbers do exceed the requirements of Version 2.2 of the ATX12V Power Supply Design Guide. These are the following.

+5VDC = 50mv
+3.3VDC = 50mV
+12V1DC = 120mV
+12V2DC = 120mV
-12VDC = 120mV
+5VSB = 50mV

[/edit]

[edit]

Here's a link to the spec if anyones interested.

ATX12V Power Supply Design Guide Version 2.2

[/edit]
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Mystikmind
Evil Stormbringer
Join Date 08/2006
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Reply #23 January 12, 2007 12:48:36 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Hey guys, you've all been awesome with the support and info and I REALLY appreciate it. I'm still crunching the numbers on a handful of models, all of which seem to hit in the 100.00 to 150.00 range. Basically I want to get a psu that will 'grow' with my measly system as I learn more myself, and the specs above were from one of the main picks. My hat is off to you gurus for the wealth of info which you seem to hold regarding any and all computer info. Honestly all of these numbers begin to give me a headache after awhile, but persistence is one of my virtues and I will eventually figure out what is best. Again, a most humble shout out to Kryo and Mumblefratz.
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Mystikmind
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Reply #24 January 12, 2007 2:36:02 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Ahem, uh... one more question guys but I was wondering if my assumption is correct.
My mobo has a 24 pin connection. Most of the psu's I've been looking at say 20+4. Now I assume that this means it will work fine with my mobo and the option to 'break' off four pins to enable a 20 pin connection is what the feature of 20+4 is. Am I correct? If not, then it seems that there is a very limited amount of psu's with a dedicated 24 pin connector... or am I missing something again?
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kryo
Join Date 05/2003
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Reply #25 January 12, 2007 2:43:46 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Most of the psu's I've been looking at say 20+4. Now I assume that this means it will work fine with my mobo and the option to 'break' off four pins to enable a 20 pin connection is what the feature of 20+4 is.


Yep.
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