the punishment was being cut off from god oh and the thorns and childbirth the pain there of

but if it wasn't for the pain of childbirth mothers would not love their children as much so maybe it really wasn't a punishment

all those animal sacrifices that the jews did was to prep them for the sacifice of christ

another condition of adam and eves immortality would be that they would remain innocent ie no sex (no desire for it or knowing about it)

thinking about it further if they had eaten of the tree of life instead of the tree of evil they would have remained the way they were for ever

no children and free to eat of the garden any way they want to

at least that is what i am beginning to think

maybe it was just simple that they couldn't have children until the eat of that fruit

and men can love the children more than mothers but i think that only happens on the occasions that mom dies or hates or doesn't love her children and that does happen one of those choice things except the death thing

of course i could be wrong about most of what i am saying


one other facter for father love is the cute facter

one thing in the bible new or old testiments

you cannot find any place where god says that he is perfect

christ says god is perfect

and the prophets do

but god does not say it

my point is that a perfect being would not consider him/herself to be perfect

he/she would try to find some way to improve themselves

then who abanden him when he was on the cross

and

who was he asking to take the cup from him in the olive grove

and when he said my father's house who was he talking about


one more thing

you and your wife(those of you who are married) when you speak do you not usually speak as one

and i believe christ also said that he and the father were as one

god is not human

christ is

and i did not say that god was not perfect

I SAID THAT A PERFECT BEING WOULD NOT CONSIDER HIMSELF TO BE PERFECT

A perfect being would know perfectly well that they were perfect, and to consider Himself to be imperfect would be a form of false humility (itself an imperfection), and it would be lying to Himself as to His own perfection (another imperfection - lying).

So a perfect being would have to consider Himself to be perfect.



John 10:30 I and my Father are one.


He did not say 'as one'.

Christians, for the most part, consider Jesus to be God. So in that respect, God is human because Jesus is fully human as well as being fully God.

if jesus is god then who abandend him when he was on the cross he couldn't have abandend himself

there is one way to improve yourself if you are perfect and that would be through your children and since we are all gods children and he wants us to be perfect as he is

All this talk of God being perfect, of people saying it is. I mean do we even know if this creator has feelings, emotions, wants, need, pereceptions, conceptions, anything at all? I think that whatever created had to have somekind of emotional motivation, and it also had to feel attachment to us, and the planet to keep making sure he was respected as the guiding being. I mean that would automatically mean he wasnt perfect, we dont know how much knowledge the Creator has, meaning that most of its decisions are guided by emotion alone. We can see that most of the time it is kind and generous to us humans. But, we can never know who it is that is truely speaking God, or the Church. I mean if God loves us all why do we have wars, conflicts, starvation, manipulation, suffering? Why doesnt he stop all of the carnage that his preachers cause, all the conflict that they inspire. Sure some of them want peace, but a lot want peace under their religion. That is quete a disturbing idea, isnt it?

Now as for mothers having more or less love for an infant, that is objective. We can not measure love, and love is not considered to be a character trait by any psychologist. It is an emotion, and emotions are hard to classify. Many times even kindness is only the cause of reaction formation and the morals of todays society. Many parents only care about their children because that is what is socially accepted, or they feel guilty from blaming the child for things that happened in relation to birth.

Lastly, there are over a billion diffrent species on this planet, at least that. I dont expect that from the small number carried on the Ark that many evolved in the corse of a few hundred thousand years. Its an impossibility, plus how did they than have time to spread themselves so perfectly around the world map? What explanations would then exist for places like the Galapocos(sp?) or Australia?

As for whether or not Adam and Eve were immortal, i would have no clue on what to contribute here. There is just not enough in my theological teachings to provide and answer or debate here.

if jesus is god then who abandend him when he was on the cross he couldn't have abandend himself there is one way to improve yourself if you are perfect and that would be through your children and since we are all gods children and he wants us to be perfect as he is

Ah ic ic, yes your concept has merrit in a certain sense. What we can say about God as a perfect being is that he 'seeks'. I mean your touching on the whole meaning of life here.... God created us and gave us a free will so that we could freely choose to love him, this is what God seeks, this is the meaning of life!

As for Jesus on the cross, may i put forward a new concept... Jesus at that moment was not God because he was 'us'.

what i think is that as adam and eve had before they ate of the fruit so did christ

ie daily contact with god with two exceptions the 40 days and 40 nights and the cross

thus the last temptation of christ was when he was on the cross

Who Christ is, his presence on Earth, his sacrifice and resurrection are all suposed to be impossible.

Consider the darkest, most decrepid centre of a large city, imagine a buitiful flower growing from between the cracks in the endless concrete. Imagine a starving child in Africa, struggling to survive in the desert, imagine that child speaking words of great wisdom. Imagine a world full of sinners all doomed, imagine God choosing to sacrifice himself to save them. These things which should be impossible that happen and are of such great beauty as to bring tears to ones eyes.

What is it about the impossible happening that can be so beautiful?

Understand that and you will understand God, what he seeks. 'the stone that the builders rejected'.

I do believe in his existance, and in his influence. But, rather than seeing him as prophet for some God, i see him as a leader of yet another struggling people. He was indeed wise, but in my opinion carried no supernatural strenght. Instead hes used his own strengths as a human being to unite people in what he believed was real.

Either that or he was a schizophranic(sp?) as many of the messangers of God in our modern world are.