anyone cared enough to share the truth of heaven and hell

Mystikmind

Join Date 06/2004

+20

A very honest peice of Christian guidance.

But a bit more of a personal insight would be nice, who are you? how did you become a Christian? How did you end up at this point in time, making the above post?

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Do you really, honestly believe that we non-believers are non-believers because we haven't heard this before? In my experience atheists, agnostics, and various other post-Christians tend to be better versed in Biblical literature and scholarship than the nominal adherents of the faith (on average). I'm aware that your particular sect encourages you to go forth and "witness" but this kind of cookie cutter, threat based proselytizing can't be very effective for securing new adherents. The internet's rife with it, after all, I'd think anyone it was going to convince would already be convinced. Add to that the fact that this is a game board, not exactly weighty with people looking for trite answers to the "greater mysteries of life," and I'd think your time could be better spent.

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You know this stuff only works if you are prepared to take the bible as the creditable word of god. I personally dont, I may have too high expectations but I always immagined the word of god being somewhat more... coherent.

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You know this stuff only works if you are prepared to take the bible as the creditable word of god. I personally dont, I may have too high expectations but I always immagined the word of god being somewhat more... coherent.

Remember, our version of the Bible has been translated at least 5 times and is the written version of stories that were passed down by word of mouth for thousands of years. Do I believe that there is truth in the Bible? Yes - we should try to work for peace and love one another. Do I believe that every single word is the revealed Word of God? No - I don't see how that would be possible after all the translation and revision. But the basic ideas are still there.

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Remember, our version of the Bible has been translated at least 5 times

the New Oxford Annotated Bible is considered, in the academic community at least, the most linguistically accurate bible printed in English. besides trying to provide the clearest translations, it also include annotations to explain things that might not be readily apperant in to an English reader.

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the New Oxford Annotated Bible is considered, in the academic community at least, the most linguistically accurate bible printed in English

Somehow I'd missed that version, so I appreciate you pointing it out. I think I'll have to buy a copy of that. The annotations, translation work, and included scholarship is better than I've ever seen in a single collected volume.

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Somehow I'd missed that version, so I appreciate you pointing it out. I think I'll have to buy a copy of that. The annotations, translation work, and included scholarship is better than I've ever seen in a single collected volume.

don't thank me, thank Oxford®!

heh...

In my experience atheists, agnostics, and various other post-Christians tend to be better versed in Biblical literature and scholarship than the nominal adherents of the faith

i guess my suggestion speaks to your point. nonetheless, i have to say that the King James version is a beautiful piece of literature. but i have to say, i'm not sure i'd have thought to call myself a 'post-Christian.'

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Sorry man but if I had to choose a god from the bible I d prolly worship one of the Ba'al's. The Caanites were just more my type of peeps!

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Sorry man but if I had to choose a god from the bible I d prolly worship one of the Ba'al's. The Caanites were just more my type of peeps!

hahaha, the bible doesn't even have the fun gods. Dionysian cult, anyone? or perhaps some worship of Soma, Vedic god of the hallucinogen bearing the same name.

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Jesus, not again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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hahaha, the bible doesn't even have the fun gods. Dionysian cult, anyone? or perhaps some worship of Soma, Vedic god of the hallucinogen bearing the same name.

The Caanite gods share a lot in common with the Babalyon deities. Procreation ran rampent in the streets!

The Phoenicians are the direct decendents of the Caanites. If you look up their dieties you ll get to see what the Caanites were up to!

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Jesus, I implore you!!! Save me from the pure wickedness of your father!!!!!!!!!!! I don't want to be tortured endlessly by the pure evil that is God the father almighty!!!! Maker of Heaven and Earth and Hell, where His sickest and darkess fantasies can come true for all eternity!!! The true Satan who decided to let Satan exist and damn 80% of the world's population into eternal fire, blackness, "place of great shame" or whatever the hell Hell is that not even Christians agree on!!!!! The true Satan who allowed the Devil to exist for thousands of years after the incident at the Garden of Eden so that the Devil can run around free tempting so many souls into the eternal pits of damnation!!!! Why oh why God could you not destroy Satan immediately after the Garden of Eden incident??? Why oh why God did you allow Satan more power than even you as we all know at least over 51% of your creations will end up eternally damned in Hell!!! You must enjoy seeing your creations in agony! Why must we believe in Jesus to be saved? What happens to retards and 2 year old toddlers that die? Do You really get off seeing 2 year olds burning in sheer agony and crying relentlessly for all eternity???

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How odd that Jesus himself who had no Bible healed the sick and raised the dead and taught his disciples about a personal contact with Spirit and a witnessing of same through walking,speaking and listening to what Spirit told them.Needing a book which is wood and leather which has been translated,edited and raped by councils of fallible men with political and religous agendas, that every stich is the inviolate word of God is a bielief in magic.Such a book cannot contain a living breathing God.

Suffering tells us when we are off the path.A permanent hell has no purpose unless God delights in torturing people for eternity for no reason,since if you are stuck there you cannot use the knowledge gained by your suffering.AAgh but you say God just set it up and you chose hell.But big G would have known that souls would end up in there.
No there is no such thing as hell except that created by man,who condemns others far more than God ever would.

No it is like a computer reboot where the energy you misused is returned to God and you start over again.

What is heaven?Clouds and harps?The only thing that would keep a souls interest in all dimensions is the continued search for the expression of Love in all it's forms,the one great overarching mystery that keeps you turning the page,to solve it,to be it and become it.

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It strikes me as odd how many religions seem to tell you that you have to die after a life of behaving yourself before you can enjoy yourself.

"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful" as said Seneca.

*un-lurks* Hello guys.

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i guess my suggestion speaks to your point. nonetheless, i have to say that the King James version is a beautiful piece of literature. but i have to say, i'm not sure i'd have thought to call myself a 'post-Christian.'

The KJV is, indeed, a beautiful piece of literature. It disturbs me a bit, however, that so many people in this country seem to think the Bible was originally written in 16th century English.

As to "post-Christian" I was fishing for a good "catch all" term and it seemed to work as well as any.

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Jesus is God, God is Jesus, and Both are the holy spirit.
I think Jesus was an unlpeasant person, he knew what the future held, he knew that Judas would "betray" him. So, he knew that one of his disciples would end up being a byword for betrayal for 2000 years after his death, and did nothing to stop him. What happened to Jesus and his idea of forgivness and love?

If Jesus knew he had to die in order to cleanse mankinds sins, then Judas did him and Everyone before and after a big favour, so Should Judas not be given respect?

Also, Jesus only wanted to save his own kind.... Jesus was a Jew, so the Jewish are the chosen people of Christ and God, the Christians,Catholics and Muslims etc, are all heretics and beyond saving simply because they are not of the same belief as christ.

God give us free will..... that's true, we're free to live as we want, but if we don't believe in him/her/it then we will be punished for eternity.

As Martin luther said "Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding" ( quote for all you Medieval Total war 2 fans )

As Patti Smith said "Jesus died for somebodies sins, but not mine"

So, to the author of this post, I thank you for trying to save me, but as I don't believe in your god,or anyother one for that matter I don't need it... but I suggest you become Jewish before you face the judgement at the end.... Jesus only wants to save his own people.

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The KJV is, indeed, a beautiful piece of literature. It disturbs me a bit, however, that so many people in this country seem to think the Bible was originally written in 16th century English.

it disturbs me how many people in this country think the South won.

this seems pertinent:
part 1
part 2

and another quote from the futurama episode, Godfellas:
God: Bender, being God isn't easy. If you do too much, people get dependent on you. And if you do nothing, they lose hope. You have to use a light touch, like a safecracker or a pickpocket.
Bender: Or a guy who burns down a bar for the insurance money.
God: Yes, if he makes it look like an electrical thing. If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.

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the New Oxford Annotated Bible is considered, in the academic community at least, the most linguistically accurate bible printed in English

Somehow I'd missed that version, so I appreciate you pointing it out. I think I'll have to buy a copy of that. The annotations, translation work, and included scholarship is better than I've ever seen in a single collected volume.

A friend once showed me a Catholic Bible with a lot of background references I hadn't seen before. I mean useful stuff; even reprints of the original, much older documents used to put together the Bible itself. I thought it was quite forthcoming, compared to some of the others I've seen. Wish I could remember the exact version etc.

Anyone know where I can get a copy of what "Doubting Thomas" wrote?

The KJV is, indeed, a beautiful piece of literature. It disturbs me a bit, however, that so many people in this country seem to think the Bible was originally written in 16th century English

I just have this picture in my mind of [someone] ripping pages out and tossing them in the fireplace (while sipping a nice French sherry), crossing out stuff, rewriting a few lines ... then handing it to a fat, sweating priest (with the executioner, Felonius, standing right behind him) to be printed-up by an expensive (royally sponsored) publishing house. Sorry if that hurts anyone's belief system ... It's actually something I thought about just yesterday, as a matter of fact. Doesn't do a lot for my faith in Biblical literature either ...

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The KJV is, indeed, a beautiful piece of literature. It disturbs me a bit, however, that so many people in this country seem to think the Bible was originally written in 16th century English.

it disturbs me how many people in this country think the South won.

this seems pertinent:
part 1
part 2

and another quote from the futurama episode, Godfellas:
God: Bender, being God isn't easy. If you do too much, people get dependent on you. And if you do nothing, they lose hope. You have to use a light touch, like a safecracker or a pickpocket.
Bender: Or a guy who burns down a bar for the insurance money.
God: Yes, if he makes it look like an electrical thing. If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.

I can do nothing but agree, and of course applaud the masterful use of both Futurama and Sealab references (and to excellent episodes of each, I might add). I must say I tend to avoid religious discussion on the internet these days. Between the evangelical fundamentalist variety of Christians and the insecure, militant-to-the-point-of-irrational (how's that for a bitter irony) variety of atheists the whole exercise usually just results in me losing all faith in humanity. This has been a pleasant exception to the rule.

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Mystikmind

Join Date 06/2004

+20

Where has the op gone? post and run?

Do you really, honestly believe that we non-believers are non-believers because we haven't heard this before?

Mostly True, But we Christians should not give up because of that. Spreading the word is said to be like sowing seeds, so it may be years before a person might act on the message or not at all, but at least they have the message to begin with.

What means nothing to you today, may end up having meaning at some point in the future, who knows?

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have any of you ever wonder humanity's traditional perception of gods or god. I mean, the Greeks had their olympian gods who were bored and needs worshippers and then when they don't get what they want, they go postal on their own creation. Then comes the Judeo Christian version of god. for the Jedeo Christian God, it all boils down to if human beings don't worship Him, then it deserves to go to hell.

I always wonder if that is really what God is like, or is it a social construction from the Jews, Muslims and Christians. THe traditional rap sheet for the Jedeo Christian god, including the muslim version is that God is all powerful, almight, and loving. He created humanity endowed it with free will. It has this incessant obsession with needing humanity's undying love for Him, but because we are given free will, which courtesy of His divine engineering, we can choose to love him, belive in him, do neither. If we choose to do neither, He gets upset and wipes such infidels off the planet, but later on, instead of just wiping us out instantly, he just well....consigned us to hell. Now think about such scenario for second, God is powerful, He can do whatever HE pleases, but because of the way he created us, he knew that certain possiblities exists that we might not love him or even believe in him or not even depend on him. As a result, it is our fault, not only that, an obseesion to be loved, yearn for and worshipped, and then gets pissed off to no end if He does not get what it wants. I think if such a being were to be translated into human medical terms, i think such a God has serious psychological issues. But then like i said, i don't know if such conception of God is really God or just human fancies.

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Mystikmind

Join Date 06/2004

+20

But then like i said, i don't know if such conception of God is really God or just human fancies.

Good post, questions i have asked myself as well!

Too be honest, if in all of history, only one person went to hell to suffer eternally while we all enjoyed ourselves in heaven, then in my opinion that is one person too many! It seems to me that all of creation is not worth existing even if only one person ended up in hell.

I just say that Gods justice must be perfect and so if the concept of hell seems unfair then it must not be as it seems!

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A perfect and omnipotent God will never torture someone for not believing in said god.
this is a horrible argument, is god not perfect?, and has God not got ultimate wisdom and kindness?

If so, why the torturous nature of hell and why all the threats for such a simple thing of non belief.

I am an atheist, but if a God were to exist to me, this God must be free from petty vengeance and hatred.
I could, maybe then, chose a god that has risen above these things.

Marcus

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Where has the op gone? post and run?

Not at all uncommon with this kind of cut-and-paste evangelical tract.

Mostly True, But we Christians should not give up because of that. Spreading the word is said to be like sowing seeds, so it may be years before a person might act on the message or not at all, but at least they have the message to begin with.

What means nothing to you today, may end up having meaning at some point in the future, who knows?

I'm not a big fan of evangelism and witnessing, not even when I was nominally a Christian. To me it's always reeked of insecurity to need to advertise your beliefs to everyone you meet. I understand that it's a tenant of the faith and all, but in modern western society it seems utterly pointless to me. Is there really anyone in the United States that's not familair with the basic tenants of Christianity? Add to that the fact that the target audience, non-believers, are on average going to be former Christians and you just raise the "pointlessness" stakes all the higher.

It seems to me that if, as a Christian, you want to evidence to others the rightness of your faith it should really be presented through your behaviors and actions. Set a favorable example of how a Christian lives and you might have some impact. Advertise (especially in the particularly shrill, repetitive, and insincere way that so many do) and you're not likely to make much of an impression beyond "Christians are annoying."

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IN HEAVEN THERE AINT NO BEER, SO YOU HAVE TO DRINK IT HERE.

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