A matter of time , or why god is nonsense

Has anyone seen that episode of Red Dwarf where Lister turns the news on and the news anchor says that archeologists found the first page to the bible with "All characters in this book are fictional and should not be taken literally" written on it!

Have to agree with you there. The Bible makes God out to be an paradoxial, pure evil, multiple personalty disordered bastard.

That is if the entire Bible is taken litterally and is true.

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And being an advance type of our species compared to most of the people here

Why do you say this? What makes you so advanced?

DO WHAT YOU WANT. KILL. STEAL. SCREW YOUR BEST FRIENDS SPOUSE. WE'RE ALL WALKING DEAD. THERE IS NO GOD, SO DON'T WORRY ABOUT CONSEQUENCES, YOUR ALREADY DEAD.

You are taking an awful risk. If there is a God, I wouldn't want to face Him and tell him this is how I chose to honor the life experience He gave me.

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ShadowWorrior:

no justifications needed!

the bible is such a random assortment of texts, and was assembled only in 325 at the council of nicea, when a bunch of guys voted on which texts to include and which to leave out. and they left out some pretty interesting ones at that! like the gospel of judas. yep, that's right! judas has his own version of the story, and it goes much like in "the last temptation of christ"(1988),a great film to watch if you haven't seen it. a spoiler: jesus makes judas go to the priests to have jesus arrested. judas doesn't want to do it! jesus uses emotional blackmail to make him do it anyway.

as for the bible canon, some go so far as to say:
"Therefore, one can easily argue that the first Christian Bible was commissioned, paid for, inspected and approved by a pagan emperor for church use."

this may have been done to keep the peace, because the christians were causing such a ruckus in the roman state, fighting against other religions.

a primer:
http://www.deism.com/biblevotes.htm

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millertime:

Question: are we referring to mere atheism, which is a broad term meaning simply "there is no god", but otherwise potentially believes in some supernatural force (like souls or karma or whatever), or are we referring to naturalism, meaning that there is absolutely nothing beyond the physical world?

i think the word "god" carries such a load of baggage and is so fuzzy that it should be abandoned altogether.

as for "supernatural force" vs. "naturalism", the distinction to me appears artificial. any universal force, currently measurable or not, must follow a universal law. therefore, "supernatural" or the popularized "metaphysics", upon closer inspection, are devoid of meaning. personally, while i am ready to agree that we still know very little about the universe, i am highly skeptical of "psychic phenomena", "karma" etc.
too often have unscrupulous people exploited the naivete of the general public, and too often have psychics etc. been debunked upon investigation.

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any universal force, currently measurable or not, must follow a universal law.

What about possible universal forces from other dimensions or other universes that are currently impossible for us to measure or observe? Aren't there many scientists who acknowledge that at the birth of our universe, there used to be a perfect 10 dimensional universe that split into the 4 dimensional universe we see now? And the other 6 dimensions?? Many aethesist scientists admit to more dimensions than our observable 4 dimensional universe. The matematics of our universe, big bang, etc. suggests more than 4 dimensions. What about forces in this universe that are impossible for us to measure with our current technology? Must they follow the universal laws that our primitive 21st century civilization has established?

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ShadowWorrior:

no justifications needed!

the bible is such a random assortment of texts, and was assembled only in 325 at the council of nicea, when a bunch of guys voted on which texts to include and which to leave out. and they left out some pretty interesting ones at that! like the gospel of judas. yep, that's right! judas has his own version of the story, and it goes much like in "the last temptation of christ"(1988),a great film to watch if you haven't seen it. a spoiler: jesus makes judas go to the priests to have jesus arrested. judas doesn't want to do it! jesus uses emotional blackmail to make him do it anyway.

as for the bible canon, some go so far as to say:
"Therefore, one can easily argue that the first Christian Bible was commissioned, paid for, inspected and approved by a pagan emperor for church use."

this may have been done to keep the peace, because the christians were causing such a ruckus in the roman state, fighting against other religions.

a primer:
http://www.deism.com/biblevotes.htm

Amen Antibody. I must say this is the first post where I agree with you 100%.

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Stanley:

Amen Antibody. I must say this is the first post where I agree with you 100%.

Yay! lets work from here

any universal force, currently measurable or not, must follow a universal law.
What about possible universal forces from other dimensions or other universes that are currently impossible for us to measure or observe? Aren't there many scientists who acknowledge that at the birth of our universe, there used to be a perfect 10 dimensional universe that split into the 4 dimensional universe we see now? And the other 6 dimensions?? Many aethesist scientists admit to more dimensions than our observable 4 dimensional universe. The matematics of our universe, big bang, etc. suggests more than 4 dimensions. What about forces in this universe that are impossible for us to measure with our current technology? Must they follow the universal laws that our primitive 21st century civilization has established?

I am sorry i must have sound confusing. the question of the number of dimensions in our universe is not one "for" or "against" god. there is nothing to "admit". i fully agree with you: there are presumably at least 11 spatial dimensions in our universe, and perhaps there are many more universes out there.

earlier, i recommended brian greene's book: "the fabric of the cosmos". i'll do it again. it is about string theory and all the things you are talking about. a great read!

what i was trying to say is that our universe is governed by laws. we may not know them all yet, but we can reasonably assume that a force we don't know yet will also be ruled by a law. agreed?

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any universal force, currently measurable or not, must follow a universal law.

What about free will?

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any universal force, currently measurable or not, must follow a universal law.

What about free will?

life is like a sonnet as long as you stay in the digram you can do whatever you want.

11 spatial dimensions in our universe

13 the 13th is a membrane around the universe and everything. string theory.

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what i was trying to say is that our universe is governed by laws. we may not know them all yet, but we can reasonably assume that a force we don't know yet will also be ruled by a law. agreed?

I agree with this.

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life is like a sonnet as long as you stay in the digram you can do whatever you want.

What?? I am going to need an explanation on this one.

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What about free will?

if you like the idea, be ready to adopt a non-standard definition of "free"

life is like a sonnet as long as you stay in the digram you can do whatever you want.

i find myself in the awkward situation of agreeing with what danielost wrote

you are free if you CHOOSE to do what you MUST do. while the choice isn't technically yours, depending on the definition of "you", it is to the same effect as if it was, since the outcome is the same.
therefore, the choice is indistinguishable from the decision, and may be called "free".

?!?!?

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you are free if you CHOOSE to do what you MUST do. while the choice isn't technically yours, depending on the definition of "you", it is to the same effect as if it was, since the outcome is the same.
therefore, the choice is indistinguishable from the decision, and may be called "free".

Um, what?

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ShadowWorrior:

no justifications needed!

the bible is such a random assortment of texts, and was assembled only in 325 at the council of nicea, when a bunch of guys voted on which texts to include and which to leave out. and they left out some pretty interesting ones at that! like the gospel of judas. yep, that's right! judas has his own version of the story, and it goes much like in "the last temptation of christ"(1988),a great film to watch if you haven't seen it.

I read about the gospel of Judas yet nothing about it was actually Judas version of the story.
You don't really believe these books were trashed because they were trash do you? I mean who would ever think of such a thing?

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I read about the gospel of Judas yet nothing about it was actually Judas version of the story.
You don't really believe these books were trashed because they were trash do you? I mean who would ever think of such a thing?

the book of judas is very close to the teachings of the lds church.

this explains why the catholics didn't include it in the bible.

for one thing someone had to be blamed for turning on christ.

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if you read the 4 gospels you find that Judas didn't ask for 30 pieces of silver. but that was the standard pay for what he did.

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I read about the gospel of Judas yet nothing about it was actually Judas version of the story. You don't really believe these books were trashed because they were trash do you? I mean who would ever think of such a thing?

yes, judas did not write the gospel himself. but then, that didn't stop the "fathers of the church" to make the gospel of john canonical (voted into the bible), which appears to have been written between 90-120AD (or should i say CT for "current time" *wink*).
as an encore i am going to entertain you with some young-earth creationist apology:
"GOTCHA, it WAS written by old john himself, because the calender is off by 30 years!"
umm, right. and how does that fit with the astronomical calculations of the star of bethlehem and the solar eclipse that happens when jesus dies?... (silence)

and no, i don't believe the books were trashed BECAUSE they were trash. and neither do i assume that the books that were kept were NOT trash (maybe pulp fiction?). but i wanted to draw attention to the fact that there ARE other books, the "apocrypha", that were serious contenders for the bible as we know it today. and not much may have been missing and they would have been included. the bible must be a consensus, a compromise between factions.
how do i know? because they couldn't agree on a canon! emperor constantine had the last word. they also tried to make as consistent a story as they could, to make it more plausible to the 4th century reader. it still is inconsistent enough upon close inspection. certainly not the "written word of god", unless god was senile or had a hangover from his latest miracle (don't worry, blasphemy is a victimless crime

).

for reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Testament_Apocrypha
http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_ntb1.htm

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The New Testament (Paul) itself(himself) gives a glide line of which a NT teachings should be accepted or not for he mentions strange doctrine even in the beginning of the church.

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no justifications needed!

I'm going to do it anyway.

Here is my test to see if atoms truly exist. I want atoms to show themselves to me right now, or else I will assume they don't exist despite what all the scientists tell me.

...

Well, I guess atoms and molecules don't exist!

Did you close your eyes? The computer you were looking at during that post was made up of trillions of atoms!

Several parts in the bible have a certain person "see", or "hear" god. So if he does exist and the bible is right, I should be able to see him.

abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz

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Did you close your eyes? The computer you were looking at during that post was made up of trillions of atoms!

prove it you can't see atoms with your naked eye. anymore than you can see god unless he wants you to

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how does a bacteria measure time. to us its life is over in seconds.

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the thing that gets me is every time we say have seen(for want of a better word.) the smallest thing. as soon as we get a better looking device we see something smaller.

so how come the largest thing that we can see, the universe, is the largest thing. just because we can't see anything larger doesn't mean it isn't there. size is the 4th dimension not time.

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Did you close your eyes? The computer you were looking at during that post was made up of trillions of atoms!

Several parts in the bible have a certain person "see", or "hear" god. So if he does exist and the bible is right, I should be able to see him.

Oh really? Why is that? because scientists tell me that if I used a powerful, electron microscope, I could then see the atoms that are impossible to see with the naked eye? Sorry, but when I looked at the computer, I didn't see protons, electrons, and neutrons. I didn't see the energy orbits around the nucleus.

What if I told you that we have spirits that are linked to our brain and that when our brain dies, we then return to spirit / soul form? I can't see atoms with the naked eye and I can't see spirits and souls with the naked eye. It took our civilization thousands of years to evolve the technology necessary to see atoms. Perhaps, someday with science it may be possible to prove the existence of God and the afterlife? I bet if I told you about atoms 300 years ago, you would think I was nuts, and you would tell me atoms don't exist.

Now to your second comment, if you told me about whoever your best friend is, using your logic, I would conclude that your friend doesn't exist, because your friend who probably lives miles and miles away never once contacted me and told me he/she was shadowWarrior's friend, and I never saw your best friend. So, again, using your logic, your best friend, whoever that is, must not exist. Why must God talk to us in an obvious way anymore than Shadow Warrior's best friend must contact me? Maybe God has a really good reason not to contact us. Maybe he wants completely unfettered development of humans in this world. Think about this. If I KNEW FOR SURE that death was not the end and that I would go to Heaven, would I think twice about shooting myself at the first sign of trouble in my life? Would I think twice about murdering someone? Why bother to live here at all? We are on this world to grow and develop spirtually.

I can't wait to die and then find you guys and be like "haha, I told you!!". The funny thing is, if aeitheism is true and we go to dust upon death, you guys won't be able to go haha to me.

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prove it you can't see atoms with your naked eye. anymore than you can see god unless he wants you to

That raises a question... why would he not want me to see him? He had a perfect chance to turn me into a beleiver!

so how come the largest thing that we can see, the universe, is the largest thing. just because we can't see anything larger doesn't mean it isn't there. size is the 4th dimension not time.

Now that's just rediculious! Size is determined by an object's extent into the first three dimensions.

prove it you can't see atoms with your naked eye. anymore than you can see god unless he wants you to

Prove gods existance!

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size is the 4th dimension not time.

You lost me on this one. Time is the fourth dimension in this universe. Matematics seems to show more dimensional universes exist alongside our universe. STRICT MATHEMATICS AND LOGIC SHOW THIS. Might these other dimensions be God and the afterlife? When talking about other universes, you can talk about the 4th spacial dimension.

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