A matter of time , or why god is nonsense

Pmutzu

Join Date 05/2006

A matter of time , or why god is nonsense

Is there a god ,? Simply put , NO . god is A humans way of explaining that which he never will understand (i.e) (god created the universe). bullshit I say.
there is no way that the universe could have had a beginning or will have an end. because of the fact that if the universe had an edge then something would have to reside beyond that edge, then you have to ask ,what is beyond that objects edge and so on. which no matter how hard you try will lead to an infinity of objects one outside or inside the other. so using occams razor which states that all things being equal the simplest answer usually is the right one. the universe has no end or beginning and never has had one.

lesson one
what is matter? the answer is , matter is bound energy

the universe exists in 2 states order and chaos , not the evil kind of chaos but chaos as in disorder .

so if matter is bound energy ,then that would represent order

and if energy is unbound then it exists in its chaotic state

all objects tend toward chaos ,that is the norm . order is the stranger aspect of the cosmos ,as it takes some system to maintain order,be it natural or biological . but do not doubt that if that system expires then entropy will again take hold .
now that being said the whole universe is headed toward an ever increasing state of disorder. eventually the universe will cool to a state where there is no order anywhere and the universe will appear the same in all directions seemingly empty or void consisting of nothing but energy.no matter will exist at this point ,having either decayed by radioactive processes or destroyed by black holes ,even a black hole will eventually "evaporate' given enough time.

so what happens when the universe reaches this state of equilibrium. that is any mans guess but , I believe that the universe can not exist in such a smooth state and it will break similar to a big bang but not centered . therby creating matter anew.over and over ad infinitum.

now some people say that "how could the universe exist forever " forever is a hard concept for a human to graps ,with us being creatures with a deffinite beginning or an end. but it need not be confusing. just realize that eother you have something creating everything ,in which case who created that creator . or it is eternal

there need be no god. everything you have ever observed is completely natural.
except for religion. which is simply an answer to a question with no answer.

choose. either delude yourself so you do not feel so small and insignifigant or just understand that you exist and be comfortable in that fact alone.

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Prove gods existance!

Prove He doesn't exist!

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Prove gods existance!

Prove He doesn't exist!

formally, ShadowWorrior is right. it is the positive claim that bears the burden of proof. no more freebies for the religious folks!
i can prove the existence of atoms, using particle accelerators or similar machines. therefore, this claim is validated. as for the existence of god...

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Prove gods existance!

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Yet atheist even debate if "I" exist. In order for an atheist to deny the existence of God he must also deny his own existence . This is what happening with books like "I am a strange loop" which states that "I" is an illusion created by the brain. Yet what if Our brain is an illusion created by our brain which in reality neurons don't exist and no charge is actually firing between them. Atoms really don't exist either because the same brain which is creating the illusion "I" could also creat the illusion that atoms are real but in reality everything is made of dark matter which can't be seen or detected by our brain which really doesn't exist but is a black hole.

My brain hurts.

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we run on rocket fuel, we need two poisons. everyday.

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Yet atheist even debate if "I" exist. In order for an atheist to deny the existence of God he must also deny his own existence.

don't take this personally, but what a hair-bending bunch of bull!
atheism != existentialism

This is what happening with books like "I am a strange loop" which states that "I" is an illusion created by the brain.

"I", if you mean the conception of a "self", it is indeed a construct of the brain.
construct != illusion

Yet what if Our brain is an illusion created by our brain which in reality neurons don't exist and no charge is actually firing between them.

this is a novel assumption that is not a logical deduction from your first statement: the "self" is a construct of the brain. it is pure speculation.

Atoms really don't exist either because the same brain which is creating the illusion "I" could also creat the illusion that atoms are real but in reality everything is made of dark matter which can't be seen or detected by our brain which really doesn't exist but is a black hole.

this is just... rambling bull. assumptions based on assumptions, leading to a circular argument of no value.

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Zydor

Join Date 03/2006

+38

if life was an accident. and we now what it takes to make a cell. and we put all of those elements together how come we can't make that cell live. yes we can make proteans but we can't make that cell live

I cant - but no doubt in a couple of hundred years or so, there will be an explanation on how to do it.

Couple of hundred years ago, people would be thought insane to the point of almost locking them up if they stuck to the belief that we could Clone life from a single cell, but now, thats pretty much what is happening. Or to dispute the earth was flat (at that time thats where Hell was supposed to be, over any of the flat edges - the latter theory soon changed when the Earth is round theory came along and was proven).

You cant point to the existence of a Supreme Deity by quoting something which is currently thought impossible - thats a huge leap of Faith. If some decide thats good enough for them, thats fine, I genuinely have no issue with that - to repeat an earlier statement,"... an inner peace is a good thing, howsoever obtained... " So if thats good enough for some and they achieve that inner peace, great, more power to their elbow.

But I cant accept the presence of an impossible quandary as evidence, to me it makes no sense. Doesnt mean I am "right" or you are "wrong", and equivalent nonesense. We all have our own standards for evidence and belief, it'll always be that way.

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we run on rocket fuel, we need two poisons. everyday.

please don't say that anymore. i don't know WHAT you eat, but if you eat rocket fuel, you're dead.

standard high-energy solid rocket fuel: primarily ammonium perchlorate powder (an oxidizer), combined with fine aluminium powder (a fuel).

as for the poisons, i can only speculate. but bear in mind: everything is a poison, if used in the right amounts.

"Paracelsus, the father of toxicology, once wrote: "Everything is poison, there is poison in everything. Only the dose makes a thing not a poison"." (Wikipedia)

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standard high-energy solid rocket fuel: primarily ammonium perchlorate powder (an oxidizer), combined with fine aluminium powder (a fuel).

you mean you never heard of the rocket fuel hydrogen and oxygen mix.

as for the poisons, i can only speculate. but bear in mind: everything is a poison, if used in the right amounts.

salt is made up of sodium chloride.

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standard high-energy solid rocket fuel: primarily ammonium perchlorate powder (an oxidizer), combined with fine aluminium powder (a fuel).

you mean you never heard of the rocket fuel hydrogen and oxygen mix.

while we DO "run" on O2, we DO NOT "run" on H2. H2 is not part of our normal environment.
while H2 and O2 can be used as a rocket fuel, it is not the standard fuel (too inefficient). also, O2 can be poisonous at high partial pressures, so what about that?

as for the poisons, i can only speculate. but bear in mind: everything is a poison, if used in the right amounts.

salt is made up of sodium chloride

a) everything is a poison, so what is special about NaCl?
b)Na != Na+, 2Cl- != Cl2. I'll give you that chlorine gas (Cl2 at room temperature+ 1atm) is highly poisonous at comparatively low concentrations, Na is simply a highly reactive metal. it'll (literally) burn in your mouth should you try to ingest it, but that would make it more of a hazard than a poison.

moreover, 2Na + Cl2 != 2NaCl unless you ionize/radicalize the crap out of it.

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while we DO "run" on O2, we DO NOT "run" on H2. H2 is not part of our normal environment.

true we don't run on n2 o2 but we do run on h2 o

and under the right conditions h2 o will blow up to. as long as it isn't water.

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Prove gods existance!

Prove He doesn't exist!

Hey! no tagbacks!

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"I", if you mean the conception of a "self", it is indeed a construct of the brain.
construct != illusion

You know "I" the near kin of "me" and "myself". Simple say " it's a construct of the brain" doesn't say very much. Might as well say "self" is voltage or the brain is a black hole thinking it's a brain.
This "self" say to itself that itself is just the firing of neurons which realize this by firing of neurons that said to itself the neurons are firing. So who exactly watching the "self" watching the firing of neurons which came to the conclusion that self is the construction of the brain?
Also as with "I am a strange loop" aren't loops usually circular? You can't get much more circular that a brain working hard trying to figure how the brain works.

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you did get one thing wrong

the soul doesn't live in the brain.

it lives in the heart

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you did get one thing wrong
the soul doesn't live in the brain.
it lives in the heart

d'oh! *smacks forehead*

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So who exactly watching the "self" watching the firing of neurons which came to the conclusion that self is the construction of the brain?

the fMRI, presumably. and the technicians and the research scientist.

Also as with "I am a strange loop" aren't loops usually circular?

no doubt, the circularity award goes to you.

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and under the right conditions h2 o will blow up to. as long as it isn't water.

sorry, H2O is always water.

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sorry, H2O is always water.

not if their both gases at the time.

yes i understand that 0xygen is hard to keep as o rather than becomeing o2 but it can be done.

other wise how do we get no otherwise nknown as peroxide.

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You can't get much more circular that a brain working hard trying to figure how the brain works.

There is a level of truth here. Is it even physically possible for any one person to fully understand the brain? After all, a computer can't fully simulate and analyze the same computer.

danielost, I don't think anyone is shocked by your knowledge of basic chemistry. Sorry to disillusion you.

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Liquid oxygen (also LOx, LOX or Lox in the aerospace, submarine and gas industry) is the liquid form of oxygen. It has a pale blue color and is strongly paramagnetic. Liquid oxygen has a density of 1.141 g/cm³ (1.141 kg/L) and is moderately cryogenic (freezing point: 50.5 K (-222.65 °C), boiling point: 90.188 K (-182.96 °C) at 101.325 kPa (760 mm Hg). In commerce, liquid oxygen is classified as an industrial gas and is widely used for industrial and medical purposes. Liquid oxygen is obtained from the oxygen found naturally in air by fractional distillation. Liquid oxygen has an expansion ratio of 860:1, and because of this, is used in commercial and military aircraft today.

ok here is liquid oxygen. O

WWW Link

Liquid hydrogen is the element hydrogen in the liquid state. It is a common liquid rocket fuel for rocket applications. In the aerospace industry, its name is often abbreviated to LH2. Hydrogen is found naturally in the molecular H2 form, thus the H2 part of the name.

To exist as a liquid, H2 must be pressurized and cooled to a very low temperature, 20.27 K (−423.17 °F/−252.87°C).[1] One common method of obtaining liquid hydrogen involves a compressor resembling a jet engine in both appearance and principle. Liquid hydrogen is typically used as a practical form of storing hydrogen. As in any gas, storing it as liquid takes less space than storing it as a gas at normal temperature and pressure. Once liquified it can be maintained as a liquid in pressurized and thermally insulated containers

here is liquid hydrogen.

WWW Link

now correct me if i am wrong but before you can get these two elements to fuse together. you have to provide some sort of spark. like say from a match.

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forget it here is the answer and you have it wrong

rocket fuel isn't h2 o2 it is h2 o

Uses
In rocket engines, liquid hydrogen is frequently used as a coolant to cool the engine nozzle (regenerative cooling) and other parts before being mixed with the oxidizer (often liquid oxygen (LOX)) and burned. In such a rocket, even with thermally insulated containers it is impossible to avoid the heating of such a cold liquid, and the hydrogen will gradually evaporate. The resulting exhaust of such LH2 - LOX engines is very clean water with traces of ozone and hydrogen peroxide.

WWW Link

so as i said before we drink rocket fuel everyday.

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before you can get these two elements to fuse together, you have to provide some sort of spark. like say from a match.

precisely. which means that after the reaction, they are no longer elemental, but a compound. which changes their properties. a lot. which is why you can't chemically say that 2 H2 and O2 is like 2 H2O (notice the stoichiometry).

rocket fuel isn't h2 o2 it is h2 o

LOX is, like you said yourself, liquid oxygen. the atmospheric oxygen that is liquefied under high pressure to form the LOX you are talking about, is diatomic oxygen (O2).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxygen

the rocket fuel of LH2 - LOX engines IS H2(l) and O2(l).
which are very different from H2O.

so as i said: you drink rocket fuel, you are dead.

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You can't get much more circular that a brain working hard trying to figure how the brain works.

There is a level of truth here. Is it even physically possible for any one person to fully understand the brain? After all, a computer can't fully simulate and analyze the same computer.

i agree with you here, to the degree of the individual. which does not mean that we cannot understand the function of the brain as a collective, and aided by computers.

My main point was that all of this does not mean that atheists, or anyone else, must deny their own "existence" as a consequence.

some fun quotes:

Brain: an apparatus with
which we think we think.
-Ambrose Bierce

"If the brain were so simple we could understand it, we would be so simple we couldn't." -Lyall Watson

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danielost:

there is no shame in being wrong- it's how we learn!

everybody is wrong sometime. wisdom is acknowledging when we are wrong, and then trying to get it right. foolishness is denial of the need to learn.

i wish i could learn everything! because i can't, i must stick to learning what i deem most important.

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Liquid oxygen (also LOx, LOX or Lox in the aerospace, submarine and gas industry) is the liquid form of oxygen. It has a pale blue color and is strongly paramagnetic

Liquid O2 and solid O2 are clear substances with a light sea-blue color.

what did you think i didn't make sure that i was talking about o and not o2

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It has a pale blue color

Liquid O2 and solid O2 are clear substances with a light sea-blue color.

so we are talking colors now?

here is a quote from a nice, blue website for you:

"Aside from O2, oxygen may be referred to as GOX in its gaseous form, and LOX in its liquid form."

http://www.uigi.com/oxygen.html

these guys are selling LOX, so you'd think they'd know. can we talk about something else now?

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