Halo MOD? » Forum Post by Dark

Actually, Covenant hulls are actually fairly tough. Covenant use Forerunner technology, so most likely they also use Forerunner metallurgical technology as well.

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Alright guys, just FREAKIN stop with the UNSC shield idea. They never had them, and from what I know, never will in the near future. All these retards are just throwing out shield ideas and they barely even know what Halo is. Ok, seriously, the UNSC have tough hulls, no shields. The reason for that is, they were never able to capture a covenant ship still intact besides the Ascendant Justice which was promptly destroyed before any real research could be done (besides cortana scanning it etc etc). So seriously, no shields. Just stop. Please.

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I'm with Auctionedllama on this one, guys. Even if the UNSC got their hands on Covenant shield technology, it would take quite a while to reverse-engineer them in order to implement them on UNSC ships. UNSC ships are definitely hull heavy. I seem to remember it was mentioned that a Destroyer had two meters of titanium hull plating.

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They do have shield tech. Master Chief and his shields anyone? All you need to do with those is scale it up. A lot.

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Actually, Covenant hulls are actually fairly tough. Covenant use Forerunner technology, so most likely they also use Forerunner metallurgical technology as well.

Well the Covenant's reverse-engineering skills probably aren't that good because the Forerunner keyship could take three MAC rounds without even looking like it was hit.

Alright guys, just FREAKIN stop with the UNSC shield idea. They never had them, and from what I know, never will in the near future. All these retards are just throwing out shield ideas and they barely even know what Halo is. Ok, seriously, the UNSC have tough hulls, no shields. The reason for that is, they were never able to capture a covenant ship still intact besides the Ascendant Justice which was promptly destroyed before any real research could be done (besides cortana scanning it etc etc). So seriously, no shields. Just stop. Please.

I'm with Auctionedllama on this one, guys. Even if the UNSC got their hands on Covenant shield technology, it would take quite a while to reverse-engineer them in order to implement them on UNSC ships. UNSC ships are definitely hull heavy. I seem to remember it was mentioned that a Destroyer had two meters of titanium hull plating.

First, just because Destroyers had two meters of titanium hull plating doesn't mean it can take a beating if you define a beating as, three or more plasma torpedoes. If the plasma is backed up by volleys of pulse lasers, the destroyer is likely going to be destroyed if there isn't a stroke of luck, AI, or commander like Keyes.

Second, this mod isn't going to be 100% canon. A bit(and when I say bit I mean alot) of creativity will have to fill in the holes that the need for balance and the lack of information are going to create. Every bit of creativity will most likely not please all. I don't like the idea of UNSC ships having shields from the very beginning either, but the idea of having a very high tier ability that grants a little damage reduction and or shield points for a short time, I do like. The UNSC should not have any form of shielding from the very start, not until very late game at least.

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Second, this mod isn't going to be 100% canon. A bit(and when I say bit I mean alot) of creativity will have to fill in the holes that the need for balance and the lack of information are going to create. Every bit of creativity will most likely not please all. I don't like the idea of UNSC ships having shields from the very beginning either, but the idea of having a very high tier ability that grants a little damage reduction and or shield points for a short time, I do like. The UNSC should not have any form of shielding from the very start, not until very late game at least.

That's what we pro-shield people have been saying. To have the UNSC completely unable to have shields would be making a bigger hole than some of what Bungie has done, well, all of Halo really. I doubt we will be using the exact same infantry weaponry 500 years from now. By that I mean gunpowder and metal projectiles.

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From alot of the Halo books, it seems that they have weapons like a Kol battleship/Kastra Desacrator (Spelt wrong), but have hulls/ sheilds like an Arcova SF, or a Seeker V, or a Jikira Navigator.

By that I mean, Heavy weapons, Crappy HP/SP/AP

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From alot of the Halo books, it seems that they have weapons like a Kol battleship/Kastra Desacrator (Spelt wrong), but have hulls/ sheilds like an Arcova SF, or a Seeker V, or a Jikira Navigator. By that I mean, Heavy weapons, Crappy HP/SP/AP

When you say they, do you mean UNSC?

EDIT BUTTON

Im not pro_UNSC_shields, Im pro_UNSC_shields_in_the_form_of_an_ability_gained_from_high_tier_research

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Well, same here.

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Alright guys, just FREAKIN stop with the UNSC shield idea. They never had them, and from what I know, never will in the near future. All these retards are just throwing out shield ideas and they barely even know what Halo is. Ok, seriously, the UNSC have tough hulls, no shields. The reason for that is, they were never able to capture a covenant ship still intact besides the Ascendant Justice which was promptly destroyed before any real research could be done (besides cortana scanning it etc etc). So seriously, no shields. Just stop. Please.

Umm they do have shield technology so that could be a future tech in the tech tree. Master chief has a shield which means they know shield technology hince they could make ships with this as well.

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yea about weapons: 7.62*51mm shells 500 years in the future

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oh and sorry for the double posts
somebody who know crap of HALO? so because im not a halo freek that doesnt meen i didnt played the games and read several books and i beleive that the UNSC should have shields like research and as pointed out earlier

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-groans- Alright, let's get this clear. YES, the UNSC had the technology to produce a shield for a single armored infantry unit. The MJOLNIR armor suit cost as much as an entire Battle Group of ships. That and the physics of creating a shield around a 2 meter tall figure differs RADICALLY when you try to produce a similarly designed shield for a ship.

You have to remember, the Human-Covenant War lasted almost 30 years. It took that long to reverse engineer some stolen Jackal shields into making the shields for the MJOLNIR armor. If the UNSC was gonna unveil some shields for their ships, they'd have done so. IF the UNSC got some sort of shield ability, it would either be reserved for a Capital ship or the absolute highest tier military research and give the ability to all the ships.

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You have to remember, the Human-Covenant War lasted almost 30 years. It took that long to reverse engineer some stolen Jackal shields into making the shields for the MJOLNIR armor. If the UNSC was gonna unveil some shields for their ships, they'd have done so. IF the UNSC got some sort of shield ability, it would either be reserved for a Capital ship or the absolute highest tier military research and give the ability to all the ships.

Does what I say go through one ear and out the other of all people?

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Aperently, yes.
Im sorry Thomas Fife, but ive gotta agree with Ehoron. That is one point I thought of, but have not posted.

If the costs r like this...

MJOLNIR
1,000,000 Credit
500,000 Metal
400,000 Crystal

Thats how much a battle group (10-50 ships) costs. If those battle group ships had sheilds, it would equal some thing like this...

Sheilded battle group:
1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 Credits
5,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 Metel
4,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 Crystal

Long post, Sorry.

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I feel i need to grace this thread with my presence once again due to this shield issue.

From the books we have a few known facts:
1. UNSC DID manage to replicate covenant shield technologies. This is odd and a bit hazy because at the time (FoR) they said they had been analyzing only jackal shields to do it which we know is probably untrue due to Halo Wars and Contact Harvest proving that power armour was available to UNSC forces well before supposed first contact and of course other contact that came only from grunt and jackal forces. The timing of this took between 10-25 years.
2. UNSC has back engineered both shield and pulse laser technologies as proved by MJORLNIR armour and prowlers having pulse lasers as a weapon.
3. Process on a ship sized shield system was never made because no covenant ship had ever been captured by humans.
(an interesting point i just thought of, covenant ships have no point defence, they dont need it. They have their shields which would have to be lowered to fire then raised again which would be too complicated for their simple computer systems to do over the body of the entire ship.)

So lets try to put this in perspective. When MC, Johnson and the others captured the capital ship off the covenant forward space station Unyielding Herophant, cortana gathered the data for the very first time about all covenant ship technologies in addition to all forerunner technologies that may have been held in Halo 7's control room. If it took 25 years to reengineer jackal, (maybe elite or brute as well though this is unlikely as the power source MUST be different) shield technology then we can assume that it would take far less time to do the same with ship based technologies. While we can say it takes less time we must also realise less time still amounts to a few years, plus again more time to build the ship itself. The time line we get between First Strike and the end of the series in Halo 3 is about one month, maybe two tops. In addition at this point the UNSC has ABSOLUTELY NO SHIPYARDS. By Halo 3 there are a surviving 200 million humans (halo 3 legendary owners can check that i think its 200 million might be 500) which considering that earth now holds 7.5 billion people and is growing on average of about (conservatively) 1 billion people every 20 years, thats 33.5 billion people spread accross something like 500 worlds that gives us approx 67.5 million people per colony if we spread it out evenly. I think its safe to assume that there are no shipyards or even other colonies at this point.
So we now know that theres no way to replicate covenant ship technologies at all.

Now for the other part of the argument. Why not just blow up a Spartans armour shielding to fit a ship? Size.
A spartan stands about 7 feet tall wearing their armour and weighs about 1 thousand pounds. If we were to try to take measurements of their armour and then blow it up to the size of a ship id say they would be 7 by 3.5 by 2. So 460 meters by 230 meters by 130 meters which turns out to be about the size of a frigate or destroyer, sounds good right? Wrong. We're missing the 2x2x1 fusion pack that goes on the back of the armour, boosted to ship proportions thats 130x130x30 meters, a pack 1/27th the size of the ship itself that needs to run at 100% to produce a shield. That doesnt include the armour that must surround the unit as well. This MUST be separate from the ships initial power plant so that the ship can still move in space.
So the problem becomes this, how can you add such a large attachment to a ship without messing up its entire design? If you just attach it on top one direct hit and your shields are done for good. If you set it next to the other engines you've made the ship twice as wide.

The final hurtle here is what i explained earlier. The ship now absolutely requires an AI to focus on that new fusion generator. Every time a missile is lossed or point defence guns fire or the MAC gun fires the shield has to be lowered in that area as to prevent damage to the ship but still keeping the ship covered in all other areas. Put all of that together and you have a ship that just wont be built ever given the way the war went. Even if they did have this ability and did all they could to produce it they would have added it to the pillar, god knows that ship if anything would have it with its new reactors, 2 AI's, The entire spartan team, and new type of mac gun.

So a shield ship, no, no i dont think that would work. If you want humans to have a slight upperhand look into Chiroptera, Stealth Ablative Coating, and The Point of no Return. Not to say the covies didnt have some of their own, but they only used theirs for recon as far as we know, also the only covie ship known to use it didnt have any mentioned weapons and was only about the size of a UNSC frigate.

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Also the scaled up shield generator would still be the same strength as the shields on MJOLNIR, so not that much protection from capital ship weaponary.

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*sigh*

Shield Burst

Antimatter Cost: 100
Cool-Down Time: 120
Duration: 10
Shield Points: 350

Engines Disabled
Slipspace Drive Disabled
Weapons Disabled
Abilities Disabled
Passive-Hull Regeneration Disabled

All power is diverted from the main fusion reactor in order to provide the ship with a little extra protection from reverse-engineered covenant shields.

Tier 8 from the highest fusion reactor research tier
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The ship now absolutely requires an AI to focus on that new fusion generator.

^Now it can, and for a very limited time that won't give the UNSC any extra power over the Covenant^

This is basically what I've been saying since the shield issue came out; highest tier research that provides an ability that grants UNSC Frigates and Destroyers a little extra protection. If you notice the amount of shield points, you'll know that it will only be able to stop a volley or two of pulse lasers, but only dulls plasma torpedoes.

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This skill would have the smallest of tactical usage. A single hit from a plasma torpedo and the shields go down with damage transfered to the ship and the ship is still dead in space for 8 seconds. Sure it might withstand 1 shot of pulse lasers but any ship larger then a frigate has as least two.

In addition this skill will have a tough time being added next to MAC gun weaponry and Nukes.
Even if this skill had 0 AM cost and 5-10 minute recharge it would still be relatively useless. Again you want to give UNCS any upperhand look up these three things i said earlier; Chiroptera, Stealth Ablative Coating, and The Point of no Return.

EDIT
In addition i forgot to add. Yes the shields would be as strong as MC's armour so that wouldnt provide much protection. The only way it could would be if it was directed to the ponit of contact as while its the same strength if spread out all in one place it could save the ship from perhaps a plasma torpedo hit.
Problem with that theory is that it would need either the ships current large magnectic coil in order to direct it or a new one. This means power is constantly drained to maintain the shield and the power in the coils. This is impossible to do with a single engine, plus it removes the true power of the ship, the MAC cannon.

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Why does everybody want F***ing sheilds for the UNSC? They didnt have them and creating a shield unit for a singel solder is a lot diffrent than getting them to cover an entire ship, let alone stand up to a plasma torp.
If you want sheilds so badly play as the covenent, but dont screw with what cannon can be left in the game by giving the UNSC sheilding capabilitys. If both sides are even then it becomes a dull experiance. The humans are suposed to be weaker, it makes winning all the more fun, and with this mod Tatics will play a huge roll. Micro managing will be critical to success, personaly I revle in the though of having to think my way through these battles.

Sry for the Spelling erros.

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I have to agree with Maico. This skill is useless.

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yeah forget the shields
they are of no use in this case and would ruin the halo theme

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Yeah i see no point in having a shield ability i think it can only hurt. Im confused didnt all UNSC ships have AIs. Not all of them and a brand new AI or maybe not even a "smart" AI like cortana but they all at least had some AI wasnt that the point of the cole protocol that all computers and records of earth were destroyed before capture. Thats why the Cheif took cortona in the first place.

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Enough people! I'm tired of people clogging the post with this! I'm making a poll right now on this mod's forums. VOTE!
shield poll

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Lol, I come back and check on the thread and there's a massive arguement about giving shields to the UNSC. Well pretty much everything I was gonna say was said by Maico. To be honest if the UNSC get shields, I wont even bother playing the mod (No offense intended, Canada). I mean I want this mod so I can play HALO, not Halo fanfiction. This mod should stay as close as possible to Halo canon while still being balanced (Asymetricly however).

If you go and give the UNSC plasma weaponry n shields n stuff, they're the same as the covies and the mod ceases to be unique, fun, and above all else. It ceases to be Halo. Like someone said, if you want shields so badly play Covenant. Anyone who knows anything about Halo knows putting shields on ships would just NOT be possible for the UNSC. Yes this mod will deviate from the way the war progressed, but ultimately it just wont be possible.

As said earlier it took them many many years just to reverse engineer the jackal shields and stick them on some armor. Putting shields that are powerfull to actually withstand space combat would take DECADES of research, and thats even if they got a covie ship to study. It simply could never happen. The war just didn't last long enough.

If shields for the USNC are absolutely required because all the emo-cry babies want it so bad, I'd limit it to a single end-tier ship and only as a relativly useless ability, since that's the closest the UNSC could ever get to shielded ships.

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