Dear KFC, yes there are two versions, so to speak of the Talmud. Most Jews today see the Babylonian version as the most valid because it was in Babylonia that most of the best Jewish scholars resided.

 

There is to be no question that Jews of old (as well as the modern Orthodox) hold the Messiah is a real possibility.  There are scores of legends as to a hidden Messiah and legends as to why he has not come out of hiding.  But understand, the Jewish notion of a Messiah is not a God-like person, not super human in any respect. The Jewish objection to Jesus as the Messiah is founded upon two discreet things.  First, as we noted together earlier, the prophecies were not fulfilled, there was no ushering of a new era where lion and lamb resided together, ect., and secondly the claim that Jesus was an incarnation of God himself.  Something Jews find terribly offensive.

Yes.  And as far as within Christianity, I have no problem with this interpretation. Still, outside of Christianity, we are still left with the problem of completely unfilfilled prophacy and the stepping way from monotheism that God splitting into two or three poses.  Chistians should, as I said in a recent blog, believe in their Jesus.  I support that with all my heart.  I equally support that Jews have a right and an obligation to continue their faith along its own guidelines.

 

Be well and thank you for your thoughtful comments.  

I just read through all of the article and comments, I find it both interesting and informative.

I just have one small thing to add. If you are not Jewish you are doomed to die and go directly to hell to burn for eternity for worshiping a false G-D and idolatry.

That is all.

Obviously you have not a lick of anything resembling a sense of humor, or is this just a response because I blacklisted your silly ass from my blog? you sad pathetic piece of belly lint.

Dear Lula,  I can understand your point of view here.  From a believing Christian's perspective, those who cast doubt on the doctrines of Christianity could appear to be attacking it.  I don't agree with this point of view, obviously.  I think to question is a good thing. (A bit of history here.  Once upon a time I searched all over the place for a spiritual home, even Catholicism.  I even took catechism classes with an Irish priest for a few months.  We just could not come to terms.  I would question; he would turn flaming red mad.)

The point of this article was to cause discussion around the belief that Jesus was the Messiah.  to show that there are alternative theories as to what his behavior at the time was about, and suggest as the article does, that the tablet in question should stir debate among Christianity. As a non-Christian, it is hardly blasphemy to claim Jesus was following a script in order to be acclaimed the messiah.  Messiahship had nothing to do with divinity anyway. 

The fact of the matter is that Jews rarely attack Christians. What we tend to do is question. Its a far more common occurance going in the other direction, as your comments have made very clear.

Are you an anti-semite?  I don't know.  I do think that your comments about Jewish clergy and holy books borders on it. I also think that from your point of view anyone questioning the tenents of your faith must hate it. 

Questioning is almost always about understanding.  Questions do take things apart.  But the intent is not to destroy, but rather to get to know. 

I'll give you this.  I'll admit to making fun in my own mind of anyone who might seriously believes God became a man or that his birth was "immaculate."  The times when I respond out loud or in writing in such a way are usually the times I am being accosted by Christians acting, I'm sure, in good faith, but none-the-less asking me to leave my faith and become an apostate or deriding me for my faith's practices or my faith itself. 

Both of us have trouble accepting the other's point of view, don't you think?

 

Here puppy! here Puppy!

Nightshades: I am a retired Zen Buddhist priest.  I write about Zen and other spiritual matters.  Please review my blog here at JU and you can also find me at:

http://www.clearmindzen.org

or

http://clearmindzen.blogspot.com/

Be well.

Knock, knock, there's been a war against Christian's rights and Christianity in general going on for some time now.

Can you say Michael Newdow, an atheist Jew...He's been attacking all things Christian in for some time?

How about those Jews who relentlessly attacked Mel Gibson for making a movie about the Passion of Christ?

Jews play a big part in Hollywood and they've put out quite a few Christian bashing films for over the past decades.

Abe Foxman of the ADL tried to have the saying of Grace before meals banned at the US Naval Academy.

Nightshades:

Try this:

http://sodaiho.joeuser.com/

SlyDrivel, We practice Zazen. Link. Be well.

Sodaiho posts: #101


MM posts: #104

Well, there it is....one Jew saying one thing and another Jew saying something completely the opposite.

Sodaiho, that long time just got a whole lot shorter....in less than 2 hours MM announced that all non-Jews, like me, are going to hell for idolatry. Is this something else that's been codified in the Talmud?

Lula,  I don't know what to do with you.  Have you ever heard the truism, "two Jews, three opinions?"  Goodness.  Get a grip.  Be well.

KFC POSTS:

The Talmuds (more correctly Thalmuds) are a bit older than Christianity being compiled in Palestine and Babylonia between the 2nd and 6th century AD, well after the Jewish priesthood, sacrifices, Temple, and Sanhedrin had ceased to exist. The Talmud is the rabbinical doctrine, ritual and authoritative code of the synagague.

Speaking of the synagogue, Jewish historians say that it had its beginning during the Babylonian Captivity that's over 1,000 years after the Aaronic priesthood, sacrifices, and sanctuary containing the Holy of Holies were instituted. The synagague can't take the place of the Temple because it lacks the Holy of Holies and the sacrifices.

The Jews didn't always have ministers known as Rabbis by title or office. The designation of their ministers as Rabbis originated during the 1st centuries shortly after 70AD when there were no longer Jewsih priests, Mosaic sacrifices, or Temple. The pupils of Johanan B. Zakkai, who "abrogated" the already abrogated "sacrifices and laws of levitical purification", substituting prayers in the synagogue (as Sodaiho has mentioned) were first to assume the title, after "ordination".

Before the Christian era, rabbi was merely a title of respect, addressed by Jewish pupils to their teachers, andby Jews generally to men more learned than themselves. Rabbi in Palestinian title which means "My Master" as Rab is a Babylonian title given to doctors of the law. and Rabboni (as Christ was called in St.John 20:16), is an Aramaic title, which means "My Lord, Master".

The priests of Mosaic Judaism were consecrated for the altar by competant authorities who had a Divine commission to exercise levitical requirements. Something very similiar to Catholic priests. Whereas there is no central authority to set the standard in Rabbinic or Talmudic Judaism.

The Talmud consists of the Mischna (aka Misna, or Mishnah), the traditional oral law reduced to writing in 200AD which forms the text, and the Ghemara, which is the commentary, an expository supplement to the Mishnah. The Ghemera is two fold, the Palestinian and the Babylonian. It's here in the Ghemera where there are at least a 100 passages which are derogatory statements regarding Our Lord Jesus Christ and His Mother as well as the moral character of Christians.

Evidently the rabbis were confronted with that content in the 13th and 16th centuries and they withdrew having no answer. Finally, they contrived a response around the "context" very similiar to the same arguments Sodaiho came up with when presented with the passages.

Truth is there is no context that excuses this part of Talmudism Judaism...it's just the way the Talmud is...it is what it is.

Nor I with you So Daiho...so we're even!

Lucky for you I like to debate too...just like you.

PS...

Would you put in a good word for me with MM? Tell him I can make a good case for being a spiritual Semite---at least according to the principle upon which 1St.Peter 2:9 based his declaration,

"You (followers of the Messias) are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a purchased people."