I do like your cartoons! They are brilliant!

Please keep finding them and putting them here, they are very enjoyable.

It is not about the love of money, it's not about money itself, money is a thing. Jesus knew that he'd kept the commandments that he'd asked him about, however he didn't ask him about the first commandment because he knew that he was full of self love and self importance and money is an indication of self love and self importance. And Jesus loved him for the ones that he had kept, and knew that he'd kept them, that's why he asked him specifically about just those few and not the first. Read the passage again. It is about the love of self and self concern. There is a difference between being blessed with the material by god, and going out and seeking it on your own for yourself and your own well being Listen to your own words, "Joseph was GIVEN wealth by god, he did not seek it himself. Job was only blessed with the material after everything, not just money by the way, was taken from him to see what he loved the most, himself or god. Boaz may have been wealthy and kind towards Naomi, but that does not mean that he walked with god. Being kind is not a qualifying factor. There are many that are kind, but few that walk with god.

And it is not about riches getting in the way of a relationship with god, it's about self importance getting in the way, riches are only a sign of self importance

I didn't say that you couldn't be taken up, but those that walk with god are. If you walk with god you will be, if not, you won't. And you can not walk with god if you are self concerned and have self importance.

There are only three talked about in the bible that were, that doesn't however mean that there were only three in the entire history of mankind. The Buddha was also taken up, he is not however talked about in the bible. He knew nothing of Jesus, but he did know about self importance and self concern. He was a young prince who renounced of his own free will, self importance, and by extension all those things of the world that indicate self importance, including wealth.

Why do you think Jesus said what he did about a wealthy man entering the kingdom of heaven? Because it only applied to that specific wealthy young man? And why do you think that the apostles were so concerned about "who would be saved?", and in their concern about themselves being saved, specifically pointed out to Jesus that they had given up everything to follow him? And why do you think that Jesus said to them, "he who is first now shall be last, and he who is now last shall be first?". He said it because they still had self concern and self importance as indicated by the fact that they had pointed out to him that they'd left all behind to follow him.

The words "believe in the Lord Jesus and be saved" does not mean that just believing that the man existed is enough. It means that one must believe in what he did, that he left self importance behind and walked with god because he did, and that all of mankind is capable of doing the same. It has never been about the messenger, the messenger is nothing, it has always been about the message, that is what is important.

I agree words are just concepts, but words are all we have to talk about it with. They are inadequate to be sure. Belief is not necessary. And quite often "beliefs' get in the way, because they are preconceptual. We as humans quite often reject that which we do not believe, even when we see and experience it. We decide that because our beliefs say that it is not possible, it is not. We will reject what we have seen or experienced either through denial, that it never happened, to deciding it was our imaginations or a trick of the light, or hallucinations, or even on the basis that our friends, family, religion, or society says it's not, etc. The list is endless.

I agree that everything is the same, and all can be experienced. Awakening or awareness, however requires an act as well as intent on our part. We are all at one time or another touched by "power" or spirit if you will, (power not to be confused with earthly power, but the power of the all) and we will either recognize it and act on it, or it will pass us by either through non-recognition of it, or downright refusal of it.

 

Lula, I appreciate this point of view,.  I think we can go far deeper than this. We need to walk in ways deeper than faith or deeds. To walk with God is to be have immanency with Him.  No dualism. Thus the aim of a disciplined spiritual practice is to collapse dualistic existence. All religions I am aware of eventually get to this place and, in the end, recognize that the labels, as Nightshades points out  about belief, get in our way.

Be well.

 

What may I ask do you define as "good works?" And why do you feel that they flow from god?



For you Sohaido:

I speak in christian terms because that is what is familiar to christians, and they have somewhat of an understanding of what they mean. One wouldn't speak Russian to a Greek and expect them to understand would they? Using terms like nirvana and samsara although they are adequate terms and accurate terms are terms that most christians are not familiar with and they most generally have little to no understanding of them. To speak and say that all is one and the same is certainly accurate and true to those that have seen and have experienced it. For christians "heaven" is something that exists elsewhere, another place to which they will go. To insist that it is here and now they will not believe because they do not see it or experience it. It is like with an infant. No child is born learning how to run, first the infant must learn to hold up it's head, and then to roll over, sit, stand, walk, and then run. First christians and all of us no matter the religion, must learn to see, and in order to do that they must first put self aside. When they can see they will experience and with that understanding will follow. (By the way I know "understanding" is not an accurate term, but it will have to suffice because there is no adequate term to use that they will know.)

Good works from God's perspective is what gives HIM glory. We need to examine ourselves from time to time. Are we doing these good works for our own benefit or for God? Are we doing good things to get a pat on the back or are we doing these works to further the gospel?

Paul speaks about a future time when our works will be tested by fire. Paul said this:

"For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. If any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, his work will be shown for what it is because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work. If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself wil be saved but only as one escaping thru the flames." 1 Cor 3:11:15

This shows here that even if one's work wasn't good he will still be saved with no works to claim. This shows that it's not our works that get us into heaven. But our works will be tested and proved. The fire will either refine or burn our works.

The whole purpose here is to deal with us as stewards not sinners.

I see, and tell me how will you know what is a work of god, and what is a work of yourself?

We can do no works of god. We can however let god work through us, but it is god's decision and not our own as to what those works will be. And god will only work through us when we are capable of setting self aside. It is not the pen that does the composing, just the writing. It is the author that does the composing and the pen is simply a tool. We are the tool, not the author.

sometimes it can be hard. That's why I said we have to examine ourselves from time to time. We need to ask ourselves, is it me who is benefitting or is it God? Am I giving glory to God or am I taking the glory for myself. That's why you see athletes point above giving God credit for their success. They want others to know they are doing what they do to give God all the credit and glory.



I agree and I used this to show the inspiration of the bible. Just as we use a pen to write down our thoughts God used his prophets and writers to write down his thoughts as he breathed his ideas and thoughts into their spirits. We use various instruments and colors for writing and so did God.

So Daiho posts: #163



Here your charge is specifically against the Catholic Church saying they tortured and killed Jews over centuries..from the 400s on. When I asked for examples, you came back with a timeline on anti-Semitism from Wikipedia which I've reviewed extensively.

Yes, agreed without doubt, that over those centuries Jews were isolated and restricted from the Catholic population, confined to live in separate areas, forced to wear yellow identification bands, etc. However, I didn't find reports of the Catholic Church "systematiclly torturing and killing Jews" over this vast period of time. As a matter of fact, of the Catholic Popes, the Jewish Encyclopedia reports:

General Principles.

The Roman Church does not claim any jurisdiction over persons who have not been baptized; therefore the relations of the popes, as the heads of the Church, to the Jews have been limited to rules regarding the political, commercial, and social conditions under which Jews might reside in Christian states. As sovereigns of the Papal States the popes further had the right to legislate on the status of their Jewish subjects. Finally, voluntary action was occasionally taken by the popes on behalf of the Jews who invoked their aid in times of persecution, seeking their mediation as the highest ecclesiastical authorities. The general principles governing the popes in their treatment of the Jews are practically identical with those laid down in the Justinian Code: (1) to separate them from social intercourse with Christians as far as possible; (2) to prevent them from exercising any authority over Christians, either in a public (as officials) or a private capacity (as masters or employers); (3) to arrange that the exercise of the Jewish religion should not assume the character of a public function. On the other hand, however, the popes have always condemned, theoretically at least, (1) acts of violence against the Jews, and (2) forcible baptism.

I might also add that the 1555 papal bull, Cum nimis absurdum, of Pope Paul IV that you cited has a notation at the bottom that it's an "editor's insert" and that the full translation is unavailable( whatever that means). I've checked the Vatican website and cannot find that papal bull and also in checking out internet biographies of Pope Paul IV couldn't find a reference to it as well.



Trust, truth, love ...Alas! it's hard to find anywhere in this world.

Pax Christi.

 

Dear KFC, once we get past (or underneath) the language, both Buddha and Jesus preached essentially the same message: unselfish love.  Buddha both lived and died for humanity, as did Jesus.  He taught people how to transcend themselves, as did Jesus.  While Jesus (or at least his messingers and apostles) were much more focused on saving a soul for heaven's sake, Buddha's focus was on this life, understanding that this life and eternal life are one. Yet, I am convinced Jesus himself was far more concerned with how we actually lived our lives and manifested our godly nature, or as Buddha would have put it, our true nature.

I don'tthink things are quite as simple as you make them out to be.  The text is just text, like a finger pointing to the moon.  We should not mistake one for the other.

Be well.

 

So Daiho,

The Jews that are heretics are ONLY those who, for whatever reason, back in the days of the Inquisition became baptized in the Chruch and then, for whatever reasons, were charged with committing heresy. Those Jews are the only Jews the Church sought out.


I agree we still have a way to go to come to some common understanding on this one. In the meantime, I've learned a thing or two from this discussion and appreciate the opportunity of being invited to participate. I thoroughly enjoy getting to know more about how others think about such issues.