You guys giving the advice, just stop. This guy is pretty much blind or mentally disabled. He's been given good advice from intelligent people and rejects it. He likes talking about reading comprehension. Hell you couldn't pass Kindergarten with your reading comprehension. You could have actually thought about the advice they gave you and utilized it. All you had to do was build a few carriers or javelis's to complement your fleet. Here is some of the advice:















































Hmm and all youv'e been saying is the same thing over and over again. I don't want to think! It hurts my brain! It's too hard! There are two ways of dealing with obstacles. Number one, the (sometimes) easier way, going around them like you did by modding them out. Number two, the (sometimes) harder way, actually confronting the obstacle and overcoming it. In this case you chose going around. IF you had chose to overcome this obastacle you would have been left with a greater understanding of this game.

Maybe I'll say this in a simpler way so you'll understand.

You suck.

Subverters are already fragile as hell. I do not understand people are still experiencing problem with them.

Even in current state (1.05) it is not hard to defeat them if you know what to do.

Keep in mind that us Vasari players eventually get outnumbered by other factions' players due to economy problems. So we need these cruisers to compensate this problem.

You know, I have come across this same argument with a few friends playing Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory on a LAN. In Mercs vs. Spies, my friend told me as a merc not to pick the shotgun because it's so unfair, the spies don't have a chance. I picked it anyway and won.

Now what does this have to do with anything on this post? Well, the version we were playing was 1.05. My point is that it has been updated multiple times, and if it was really an issue, they'd have changed it long ago. I highly doubt that it's the program at this point after 5 updates. Here's an example. I was trying out the new 1.09 just yesterday, and my friends and I all think Advent is a joke (no offense to those who play as Advent). Well, after 20 minutes on a normal skirmish, just to test out the beta, I got slammed and lost, by Advent. Now I have more respect for them.

My point here is that no one got screwed, or unbalanced, or anything like that. What I'm saying is that the current tactics and strategies we have will not work. We need to formulate new plans, new ideas. Hey, that's how real life is, right? We just don't do the same thing over and over and expect different results. Well, that's stupidity. What I mean is that the game is managed by one of the finest developers I have ever seen in my 20 years of gaming, and I will say that this game is evolving, it's changing, and if we want to play, we must change with it.

Thanks for the tip! I do focus fire, but the side effect of that is that my front line ships begin to cluster up, eventually making a blob, allowing a single stray subverter to take them all out. My rear ships can still fight but my total firepower is greatly reduced for a long time.

Either way, I modded myself a solution and it works well to level the playing field. Had an accidental test where a Vasari AI with all his subverters still went against another Vasari AI with all his subverters destroyed in previous engagements (the mod doesnt allow them to replenish the ships but keep the ones they already had). Their mega fleets merged in a full tilt battle and the one with subverters absolutely decimated the other side. Their front line ships were almost permamentaly crippled throughout the fight. No surprise to me.

Ok, assuming thats true, whats the benefit of playing TEC then?

I don't want to dumb this down so I'm gonna give you a few simple examples.

A) Sins isn't C&C where you can build a crap load of tanks early on and blitz the enemy. But, you basically did that with HC's.

Personally your solution was cheap. Its like removing your opponents Queen or Rook's before a chess match just because their kicking your butt and YOU can't think of a way to beat them.

C) Mate, grow up and adapt. Its what us Humans are good at. Stop using your club to solve your problems evolve to using your brain.

E) History example coming up next: Your that type of commanding officer that uses Napoleonic Tactics to fight the civil war. The guns ere more accurate and have a longer range then smooth bore muskets of Napoleon's Era and yet you still order your men to march within spitting distance of the enemy to fight. Your tactics are outdated in todays world my friend, adopt some new ones if you want to survive.

F) Another History Example: Your HC's are like Knights. Heavily armed and armored. They can deal a lot of damage. But now your Knights have run into a problem! Crossbows, longbows, and guns! They can be stopped from a long range much like the Subverters are doing.

So what was it I said earlier 'bout history repeating itself?

The actual mod used to solve this issue wasnt my choice, but I have modified the game to overcome similar issues.

The TEC are behind the 8-ball in this game. And the TEC are my choice of race, since I'm not into revenge as a motivation, and my test of Vasari to see how the phase gate worked left me not wanting to play them again due to the wordage used.

As such, I see the Vasari as an old dominant warbased culture that spent so long as the dominant species that they stagnated. Sure they are still powerful, but only because they are different. The Advent are not into conventional war. Its all PSI based. That leaves the TEC who have spent thousands of years competing with each other to get goods to market the fastest and cheapest, and who have had pirates and outlaws to contend with the whole time. So the Vasari become a threat, but unite the sleaping dragon of the traders, bring together their collective innovations and you get what I have modded, being speed and gunpower. Speed because traders would be trying to outdo each other, and the TEC would have appropriated the best drive around for its fleets. And gun power because traders would have been tinkering with them for yonks as well, and the best ones would also have been appropriated. So the Vasari bring in something that paralises my ships, they get a free shot for 30 seconds or however long it lasts, but then I'm going to hit them with massed firepower.

Makes no sense to me to have a frigate with a hitting power of 10 and a Battleship with a hitting power of 20. Not sure where that delusion came from, given that shields are in the 1000's. So my TEC battleships begin with hitting power of 200 and just get better. And they have longer range. Its not a matter of overbalancing, its just a matter of 2 foes having gismos, and I have raw grunt.

So the Vasari have an advantage, well they better hit me hard while they use it because then they are toast !

In this senario that started this little 'discussion', my answer would be a HC that fires from a range of 10,000 or more, and hits with something around 150. 60 of those make a dent in anyone who cant take them out before they get in range. Even then, they are still vulnerable to fighters, so need protection, but rather than take out the offending gismo, I would just up the ante for when the gizmo stops working.

I dont like "balance", and actually love it that the reason for this thread justifies the changes I have made to the TEC, at least to my satisfaction. I dont mod anything unless I can "explain" it.

There is actually very little difference between the ships of all 3 sides when you look at them, just the gizmos they have to play with. One answer I've worked with is changing some subtleties. Vasari and Advent use 6 fighters in a squadron, but Humans traditionally use 12 fighters in squadron, and so do I. I also look at the size of ship, and the light carrier is a big ship, and 1 squadron leaves a lot of empty room imo, so it now holds 2. The only reason I havent put more than 3 squadrons in hangers is the lag problem it creates on my computer.

But the bottom line is FUN. We play this game for fun, and how one changes it to make it fun is a personal choice. One persons fun is another persons bin job and vise versa. Fortunately we can mod and change it how we like it.

At the end of the game, its how much we enjoyed playing it that counts, not how many people agree with what we did to make it enjoyable.

Jesus H. Christ, how did you get that many ships and that many resources???

O____o

Was that a 5-hour game or something?

No, it comes down to you instisting that one useful unit which you find hard to beat makes the entire game unbalanced.

The ship is getting mildly nerfed, the fundamental ability of it remains, and it will still require the same tactics to beat.

And it's very easy to assume you're being stubborn and not listening when you barely respond to people's advice, and when you do, you insist that nothing will work and the unit can't be beaten.

I don't even know why I'm bothering to argue tbh, I think there are enough posts in this thread laying into you in great detail that I needn't bother.

I so need to get this game.

Stupid budget tightening...:[

Yep. But that still leaves a lot of frontline ships that cant move nor shoot, disabled by a single enemy cruiser. Either way I consider the issue closed as its being addressed in 1.1

....your red right...well that screenshot shows that your enemy has about 2 if not three times the amount of ships according to the red to blue boxes....you failed hard....really hard

yes yes he got wtfpwned...i didnt even realize it was the vasari he was fighting....so...he was fighting the vasary and they had MORE SHIPS THAN HIM?

jesus man......oh, dont stay up too late op school is coming back soon you have to practice getting up b4 noon k and i made you a sammich...see all better now huh xDkawaii:Dlieksupercoolguyz.

-edit- put a c where a v should have been