WOW! This is great news!  I've always been wondering where Guinsoo went.  I mean, I liked Iceforg's dota version, but I started playing on Guinsoo's.

To be honest, with this news, I don't really see how demigod can possibly be the "counterstrike" of rts/rpg games...  I'm hoping that what Frogboy said is true - that the current Beta is garbage and the real one they have is leaps and bounds better.

However, I'm cynical - I've heard the lies and I know the deal.  I'm sure there's tons of features in "real" beta that aren't in current beta but I highly doubt there'd be a complete overhaul of the game mechanics, game design, and characters skills.  After only playing a handful of Demigod games, I feel that it caters significantly more to the casual player than to the hardcore player.  Aside from being able to master the clunky targetting system, there's little player skill involved.  Compare this to DOTA where creeps are stronger and there's the element of xp denial/last hits.

Prove me wrong, Stardock/GPG! (seriously, please do - we've already paid for the game after all)

I believe you're mistaken - prior to that last comment I haven't really said anything negative about the game other than wanting to cancel the pre-order on the forums.  Even still, I don't think the game is terrible - I just don't see how it can live up to its creator's dream of being "THE" definitive competitive rts/rpg game.  I think it will be a fun game, but not the definitive competitive rts/rpg game.

Before that "I want to cancel thread" I only lurked the demigod forums but didn't write anything on them.

Also, in my short criticism post I already detailed a couple things I feel hold demigod back from becoming a great competitive game - namely player skill.  I also provided two examples of things that involve player skill in a non-twitch manner, securing last hits on mobs and having much stronger (more HP and damage) creeps.  Currently, demigods are so strong that creeps are purely fodder and are basically not a threat.  Getting the hit on mobs is also trivial since you deal so much damage.  I don't believe there's a mechanism to kill your own creeps and exp deny your opponent either (correct me if i'm wrong here).  The targetting system and the overall controls also feel clunky and make it even harder to execute precise tactics.  Most of the above stuff is easily fixed - but I think the actual game design of demigod is to make you feel like a demigod; ergo, creeps will never be a threat to you.

With the above said, yes there's other ways to make it competitive without having a refined creep last hit and exp deny system.  Personally, I can't think of one which wouldn't benefit greatly from this.  GPG and Stardock may have ideas, however.  Sure, I can think of lots of ways to ADD onto the existing dota fomula.  Control points (which demigod currently has) is an obvious choice, lifted from games like Battlefield.  However, to make a game highly competitive requires it to have a great deal of refinement and degree of precision.  Having a refined creep system means that you're not just competitve strategy wise (capturing the flags and securing key areas) but you're competitve player-skill wise as well.

I also feel the game's demigod characters and skillsets are highly unoriginal so far.  Innociv has some good suggestions but honestly, the onus should be on GPG and Stardock providing US with the creative heroes not on US providing them with the creative suggestions (and done for free, I might add).

You dont see it cause that game only attracts people like jinx who disowns everything thats not blizzard related. Also the initals LOL is ridiculous and the game should be taken as a joke. How could you compare this inferior game with demigod.

*errie calm settles*

To Random_Retard Random_Guy

You asked us to write why recipies are better than upgrades but you havn't written why upgrades are better than recipies (exept for claiming it's simpler).

Why are the upgrade system less complicated? The upgrade system works like this; you get an item then theres two paths or three to get a better item right? So even if you say that theres to much to memorize in the recipie system, in the upgrade system you would still need to remeber what starting item to get and witch upgrade paths to take to get your desired item. So you would still have to look trough all the items and the "walls of text" to see what items are the best items for your character in demigod.

So whats really the big diffrence besides that with recipies you can still get all the smaller items first and feel like you improved stat wise and that you're a little more deadly now than before untill you get the special effect you wanted (by buying a recipie) instead of just buying one item then only upgrade it with special effects. At best the upgrade sytem will only be a step down in depth compared to recipies.

It's true that it gives simple things like speed, armor etc. But at the final upgrade of the examples he's given there's a special attribute like an additionally 10% chance to proc %based item abillities. This is much like the recipe system where you get simple upgrades such as speed, armor and stats with each ingredients then something special with the recipie. So you would still need to see what item has your desired effect as a starting item and still have a good ending effect.

Just as with the recipes you need to know alot of the items starting stats and upgrade paths (since you would want some thing good until you get the final upgrade) and then the final upgrade (because you'd want something even better there after all the money spent).

The difference is that to only have one item is not as fun and satisfying as slowly working towards a great item. It's also more fun to get a stone with seemingly endless inner power and then a shiny ring found beneath a fat halfling's corpse to make something that gives heart to the bearer instead of getting some boots with a cool explanation then just upgrading it. You will have no affection towards the item and you will not feel like you became more awsome than before as a result (or at least not as awsome).

Another this is that you probably won't have as much problem with your inventory space that you would with recipes. If that matter at all is i guess a matter of taste but i like it. A solution like decresing slots would be bad because it would limit the combinations of items you could get which litmits the depth.

And while i'm at it; to those who says recipes are complicated because of the parts that you need: in the girls shop theres 12 items but 3 of them are +3 stats to int, str and agi items, the next 3 is +6 to the same and the next 3 are +10 to each. The 3 i left out is +1, +2 and +10 to all attributes. you could then boil it down to 4 different items. This is a very simple thing to know after maybe 2 games if you just look. Each recipie also says what you need. What stats does is not that hard to learn either (not by studying btw). I mean seriously, there's 3 different stats. And just so you know i'm not saying that you need to have the recipes in the game if there's some thing as good or better, something new and fresh that i would like, however recipes is a really good system and if it gets in i won't complain. It would be great.

Edit: Just in case this is what you meant. Yes you can buy a random item without knowing how it will upgrade(that you like ofcourse so you still have to look trough alot of items) and then upgrade to what you like the best at the moment but then you wouldn't know what you will get at the end and that's kinda lame.

I don't have anything against memorizing, one point in my post was that it's not more complicated with recipes than upgrades. It seemed like you didn't like that you had to get a yasha to get more speed because it took up an slot with out being that good. But having to choose between items with a slot limitations is important. If you can just upgrade one item without any additional items you loose an strategic part of the game. And some items should not be gotten by some heroes. Some is good with S&Y others, an ranged agi hero in this case, with skadi (works with orb effects if your ranged). And even if you complain about the fact that the only speed item was to bad then in this game there could be a good recipe speed item. Besides those examples does not show a flaw in the recipe system but rather your personal taste in the selection of items.

About your noob/dagon thing it could happen in upgrades too if you just have an item that has such an effect at the end. It's nothing thats limited to recipes just limited to dota (right now anyway).

I guess it's more noob friendly but you sacrifie to much. And you could just buy something random in dota and then look for recipes, tough i guess that would be hard like hell.

To make the recipe system more noob friendly i think i got a pretty good idea. If you buy a random item you could look at it in the stat screen, there you could see something like this:

Tight shoes: -5% movespeed needed for: Fancy shoes, shop 3

                                                            Balleyshoes, shop 1

Ripped Jeans: +15% sexiness (25% for Queen of Thorns) needed for: Fancy pants, shop 2

Err.... People will rather play Demigod than LoL over DotA. So far, so horrible. If I get to try it out myself sometime, then I might change my mind if it is good enough. If it plays exactly the same as DotA then, why the fuck even bother? It doesn't even LOOK significantly better than DotA in the WC3 engine. Not to mention the current art direction looks like a basket of farts, at least when compared to Demigod (and even Warcraft (before WoW I mean).