General a complete failure » Forum Post by lprometheus

Erm...their military max is 4 per normal creature (so 12) and varies with their general creature, iirc oak can have up to 12 spirits. Thats an army of 24... oak is pretty strong in melee too and against other demigods. Can't really talk for the vamp lord, haven't tried him yet.

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Oak is fairly well done, and an awesome defensive character. It seems to me like the Vampire Lord is a little below average in power, though.

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Generals work fine - a full cap of Oak spirits can easily kill an occupied Assassin (unless the assassin is anti-general skilled). They're not supposed to be able to beat an Assassin 1:1 without good application of skills. Defending flags isn't something they're supposed to be good at either, seeing as how one of their prime advantages is access to siege units right off the bat. They can maul towers from the get go - that doesn't seem very defensive.

I agree on Erebus - he does seem a bit fragile, however when geared for offensive, he is very deadly.

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Bottom line the game is not fun. Unless your whole team is the torch bearer then game over 100% of the time. We need more balance and a complete removal of the stun. How can you think people will play this long term when only one character can win? I say reboot or punt.

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@Iprometheus

How about giving it a little more time before making such outlandish claims. Your black and white statements come off as quite childish to me.

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Quoting Legerdemain,

reply 2

Oak is fairly well done, and an awesome defensive character. It seems to me like the Vampire Lord is a little below average in power, though.

I agree completely here. Oak is, with Last Stand, way too good. I played Erebus three times and I came off with the feeling that he's just not up to par. His AE stun is nice, but aside from that he's just not very fun or powerful.

I think Genrals will come into their own as players evolve. Again, Oak felt very strong to me.

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I think Erebus could be really good. Get tons of HP and use his cloud. You level up extremely fast and push creeps with crazy ability. I was level 7 before anyone was level 4. Also generals are like support heroes it seems. They aren't useless and are powerful. They can't go toe to toe, but the Oak's shield is powerful to an ally.

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How about giving it a little more time before making such outlandish claims. Your black and white statements come off as quite childish to me.

First Childish I think not realist more like it. A game like Diablo, Star Craft, War craft, and Supcom are fun because character class or race can win and compete. And time how much time do you need this game is due of the shelves in three mouths. What you have here is total stun fest ascending to a bargain bin near you.

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How many games with actual other players have you played in Beta 2 exactly prometheus?

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I had a great game first Demigod game last night as the Vampire Lord. Maybe I just had a lucky game, but once I got a handle on what weapons and what not were available, and bought the right stuff I had few issues going toe to toe with all the other heroes. His abliities make him a great ganker and his mist cloud gives him insane pushing abilities combined with the ability to complete dodge a lot of nasty crap. What's not to love? I loaded him up with more life leach and the silencing weapon and just roamed the map pushing lanes and ganking solo heroes.

I'm definitely looking forward to playing the other generals.

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your spawns don't give the enemy XP at all...

In my opinion the minions currently are too strong in the early game and too weak/low hp in the late game. That should be solvable with changing the item costs of Level I to IV idols and their stats.

Aside from that Oak and erebus are currently 2 of the strongest heroes, at least I think so after about 20-25 games.

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If it was such a complete failure, I wouldnt be having this much fun or be that effective with Oak. I respectfully completly disagree.

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I think Oak rocks, but Erebus definitely sucks. If I had to rank the heroes, Erebus would be at the bottom. I've played with him several times now, and it just takes more effort to win with him than with other heroes. Here's some reasons why: You have to split your focus too much. What I mean by that is you have to get mana regen items so you can cast spells. Then you also have to get +hp items so you can use cloud. Then you have to get armor items so you can survive. Then later game you have to get +weapon damage items and upgraded creeps.

Also, his only good abilities are bat swarm and mist, all the others are a waste of points. Kinda sucks because bite sounds really cool in practice, until you realize that 500dmg/heal is a joke late game.

But yeah you're doing something wrong (or very right?) if you think Erebus is powerful.

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Erebus is good if you don't build any units, just focus on bite, bats and stats. Can run in, bite a hero, hit him a few times. When he starts to run, bat across in front of him and bite him again. After getting 2 good breast plates and some good gloves/rings, I was able to kill even the rook doing this, my health simply didn't go down because I vamped soooo much.

Units aren't good enough right now to be built by either hero in my opinion.

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Quoting ZeratulTheDT,

reply 13

I think Oak rocks, but Erebus definitely sucks. If I had to rank the heroes, Erebus would be at the bottom. I've played with him several times now, and it just takes more effort to win with him than with other heroes. Here's some reasons why: You have to split your focus too much. What I mean by that is you have to get mana regen items so you can cast spells. Then you also have to get +hp items so you can use cloud. Then you have to get armor items so you can survive. Then later game you have to get +weapon damage items and upgraded creeps.

Also, his only good abilities are bat swarm and mist, all the others are a waste of points. Kinda sucks because bite sounds really cool in practice, until you realize that 500dmg/heal is a joke late game.

But yeah you're doing something wrong (or very right?) if you think Erebus is powerful.

You're trying to do everything at once when you try to be tough, use spells and cloud at the same time. Of course it won't work as well. You need to focus a bit more. Drop the cloud and you can get by without all those health upgrades, or drop the mana items and go for full tank/health and cloud to your hearts content.

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Quoting lprometheus,

reply 8

How about giving it a little more time before making such outlandish claims. Your black and white statements come off as quite childish to me.
First Childish I think not realist more like it. A game like Diablo, Star Craft, War craft, and Supcom are fun because character class or race can win and compete. And time how much time do you need this game is due of the shelves in three mouths. What you have here is total stun fest ascending to a bargain bin near you.

If the Torch Bearer stun is OP, incorporate an item that makes a hero invulnerable to all magic attacks and stuns for 10 seconds on activation.

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Also, not putting yourself into a stun lock situation is part of the gameplay. You can't run in and expect to live. Play smart and you won't get stunlocked as much. End thread until hero balances are patched.

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Outside of stunlocks, which are just plain overpowered and will get fixed, Erebus is a very potent fighter. He's got abilities that deal damage as good as any Assassin, his vampire bite is very powerful as it strenghtens you as it weakens your enemy, he can use his mist to wait for the cooldown of his batswarn to flee combat, and his pets allow him to rack up cash very quickly.

If anything it feels like the vampire lord is a better assassin than assassins, and he has pets.

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Quoting lprometheus,

reply 8

How about giving it a little more time before making such outlandish claims. Your black and white statements come off as quite childish to me.
First Childish I think not realist more like it. A game like Diablo, Star Craft, War craft, and Supcom are fun because character class or race can win and compete. And time how much time do you need this game is due of the shelves in three mouths. What you have here is total stun fest ascending to a bargain bin near you.

People like you are the reason why companies should think twice before making beta open so early.

The problems you're talking about are those which can be fixed with a simple tweak of the numbers, but you're acting like they are fundamental mechanics flaws that are insurmountable. Why don't you state your issues in a calm, reasonable manner and be a little patient?

In case you didn't realize, this is still beta. Our purpose is to give useful feedback to the developers on how to improve the game. If you don't like it, then uninstall it from your computer and wait until Feburary for the Gold release.

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It shouldn't take 30 seconds to get your full army up. The cooldown make sense, but not to summon 2 of 4.

When an assassin can easily dismantle my troops, I find myself spending much of my time running around at half strength or less.

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To Original Thread Starter:
Did you read the notice saying that beta 2 is NOT balanced yet and that stuns ARE too OP? They are working on it...this is what beta's are for.

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Generals suck ATM. The biggest reason is because the minions are not very... useable. Most RTS games (except The Original Warcraft 2 where you chain-walked making a giant army walk after eachother because of lack of groups) have GROUPS. At the very least a single group with all your minions. Currently general's minions are very... well one-tracked. There is no variation or strategic planning. Generals don't get to set up defences or offences effectively. They are just assassins with no ranged weapons and weaker abilities, (in theory) and a bunch of units that sit around most of the time.

In this game click-kill won't work as well as it does in Warcraft 3 since most enemies die in 1-3 hits. We need some AI making attack decisions for us since not all of us can super-speed click to control every unit individually.

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Yes I do beleive stun should be taken out because 1 time I had full health than got stunned 2 times in a roe bam Im dead. Also this is beta they said they didn't have a chance to update it too. Oak can kill any other Dg I think. Torchbearer is not rigged he can however get leveled up really quickly. Erebus I havn't actually finished a game with because I hated him. He seems alittle on the weak side. All u people who insult generals have u even tried Oak he can slaughter units and is pretty good against DG's too.

edit: yes they need to find a way to make minions more effectice ideas are sujested in another post called generals arn't special.

edit2:lprometheus you always seem negative. Maybe give some suggestions to the devs. btw devs said beta wouldn't be balanced and are trying to fix it in updates.

edit3: Everyone will take certain DG's to their own personal liking or disliking. As i said Erebus is weaak someone else said he is a beast. maybe if u hadn't realised this but some people just arn't going to be good at generals or assasins . Thats why theirs both.

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Personally think Erebus is an overpowered demigod.

I shouldn't be able to take down a Rook in a knockdown, drag-out fight. I also shouldn't be able to out-kite a Regulus.

I can do both by taking Bite to completion, his coven to completion, and fill out his stats and leech aura. Get his Bat teleport for survivablitity.

You are now Mr. Hit-and-run as bite has a ridiculously short cooldown for a leech, and his minions are good distractions/DOT. bat teleport away from any stun animation and you can take down three demigod in quick succession. Only problem would be a mirror match or a Frost focused TB.

Note I ignored his stun. I only took it if there was several generals, no real point otherwise since again Erebus focuses on hit and run.

Generals as a whole are great late game, assassins are good rushers. There is of course a wide range between those poles where the actual demigods fall.

Personally didn't see the point of the Oak, but I can see how some would like him.

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Personally didn't see the point of the Oak, but I can see how some would like him.

Personally found him great fun espeecially late game. Once you max out totems (12 creeps) + his flag (12 spirits), power of the oak and shield you basically have an invulnerable general with a decent dps and a massive army.

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