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lprometheus
lprometheus
Join Date 05/2008
+4

Team Torch Bearer Stun Fest

December 19, 2008 1:20:51 PM from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

The solution here is simple. First keep the skill however with the following changes.

1.)    First give each Demigod a 15 sec immunity to any skill after the first use to stop the double dip stun.

2.)    Make the Torch Bearers manna cost more and increase the cool down.

3.)    Finally we need a potion to make the DG immune to the stun for 30 sec.

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lprometheus
DatonKallandor
Join Date 04/2006
+9
Reply #1 December 19, 2008 2:12:59 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

The TB has only a single stun - that's hardly a "stun fest". You're overreacting massively.

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lprometheus
Heartsbane00
Join Date 04/2008
+1
Reply #2 December 19, 2008 2:32:56 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

I just played a Dota game where we stunned someone for 12 seconds straight.  If the Torch Bearer stun is OP, incorporate an item that makes a hero invulnerable to all magic attacks and stuns for 10 seconds on activation.

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lprometheus
Lafinass
Join Date 02/2008
0
Reply #3 December 19, 2008 2:44:28 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Quoting DatonKallandor,
reply 1
The TB has only a single stun - that's hardly a "stun fest". You're overreacting massively.

I would assume he's referring to an entire team or simply multiple TB's.  If they're working together, it would be entirely possible to stunlock.

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lprometheus
DatonKallandor
Join Date 04/2006
+9
Reply #4 December 19, 2008 3:26:49 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Yes - stunlock one Demigod by occupying your entire team. Stunning looks bad because you're not seeing the bigger picture - the rest of the enemy team runs free while you use yours to stunlock one of them.

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lprometheus
PossiblyImpossible
Join Date 08/2008
+1
Reply #5 December 20, 2008 1:53:35 AM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Quoting DatonKallandor,
reply 4
Yes - stunlock one Demigod by occupying your entire team. Stunning looks bad because you're not seeing the bigger picture - the rest of the enemy team runs free while you use yours to stunlock one of them.

 

I agree with what you're saying, but on the other hand, I believe strongly that in any RPG (and this game has strong RPG elements) taking away control from the player for any extended period of time is a really bad thing to do. 

At maximum a player should be stunned for a couple of seconds.  No chain stunning, no matter what it costs the other team to accomplish it.  Simply put, it's just lame.

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lprometheus
masterofping
Join Date 11/2008
0
Reply #6 December 20, 2008 1:57:40 AM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Stun locks can be prevented by adding items that add a an ability to block 1 targeted spell every x seconds. Or mabye giving you a % every x seconds to block 1 stun.  However, we must remember that stuns are also an essential part of any rpg type gameplay.

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lprometheus
PossiblyImpossible
Join Date 08/2008
+1
Reply #7 December 20, 2008 2:11:47 AM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Quoting masterofping,
reply 6
Stun locks can be prevented by adding items that add a an ability to block 1 targeted spell every x seconds. Or mabye giving you a % every x seconds to block 1 stun.  However, we must remember that stuns are also an essential part of any rpg type gameplay.

 

Crowd Control abilities may be an essential part of RPG gameplay, but I disagree that stuns are an essential part.  There are better and more interesting ways to debuff and debilitate enemy players without preventing them from controlling their character for stretches of time, however short.

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lprometheus
masterofping
Join Date 11/2008
0
Reply #8 December 20, 2008 4:05:33 AM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

I guess the stuns could be split into two trees too. Silences, and roots.


Also things like stuns can break on damage, or they should have a short immunity after the first cast.  I think 30 seconds is too much, more like 5-10 sec seems more reasonable.

This also assumes that a character is going to eventually have more than 4 active abilities to choose from, when they should, since we have so little quantity of actual demigods.

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lprometheus
PossiblyImpossible
Join Date 08/2008
+1
Reply #9 December 20, 2008 5:06:13 AM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

I'd rather see Torchbearer have stuff like Roots and Disarms / Silences as opposed to stuns. 

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lprometheus
DeadMG
Join Date 04/2008
+5
Reply #10 December 20, 2008 7:17:00 AM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Quoting Heartsbane00,
reply 2
I just played a Dota game where we stunned someone for 12 seconds straight.

The relevance of this is nil.

Stuns are made of fail, it's no fun at all to get stunned.

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lprometheus
kithoo
Join Date 12/2008
0
Reply #11 December 20, 2008 1:03:51 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

The real answer here is diminishing returns.  Each successive stun on a target stunned in the last X seconds lasts for a decreasing amount of time.

 

So if you stun a guy for 3 seconds, then stun him again in the next.. let's say 10 seconds.. that stun will only last 2 seconds, then 1 second, then a half second.

 

I have no clue how long the diminishing return bubble should be - 10-15 seconds seems reasonable to me.  I also don't know what the % of duration decrease should be - 30-50% seems like a place to start.

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lprometheus
Tofi
Join Date 06/2007
0
Reply #12 December 20, 2008 1:42:25 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

This ^

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lprometheus
Heartsbane00
Join Date 04/2008
+1
Reply #13 December 22, 2008 5:05:20 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Quoting DeadMG,
reply 10



Quoting Heartsbane00,
reply 2
I just played a Dota game where we stunned someone for 12 seconds straight.


The relevance of this is nil.

Stuns are made of fail, it's no fun at all to get stunned.

We will agree to disagree.  When your playing a tank in Dota, sometimes your purpose is to take the stuns off your carry heroes.  Even if I am stunned for 6-7 seconds by multiple heroes and die, as long as my team wins the fight I generally am still having a good time.  Plus Dota has items to negate stuns if you want to spend the money to get it.

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lprometheus
Ostragoth
Join Date 03/2008
0
Reply #14 December 22, 2008 5:20:50 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

I just died to a hole bunch of stuns.

I agree it was nto fun.

In general getting killed is not fun, esp if your temamtes are not behaving effectively.

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lprometheus
Tyo
Join Date 05/2008
+7 gpg
Reply #15 December 22, 2008 11:41:22 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Hey all, thanks for the feedback regarding stuns. I've taken a pass through the stun abilities in Demigod and reduced their effectiveness to mitigate this problem. I'll also be talking to the engineers in the New Year to see if we can get a diminishing returns system in.

 

Mike "Tyo" Marr
Demigod Design Lead 

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lprometheus
Teseer
Join Date 02/2008
+60
Reply #16 December 22, 2008 11:56:15 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

GPG

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lprometheus
Techubus
Join Date 02/2008
+3
Reply #17 December 23, 2008 12:53:41 AM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Excellent. Diminishing returns IS the way to go.  No need to eliminate the mechanic entirely.

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