Item Recipes » Forum Post by PossiblyImpossible

No we don't need them. They're one of the worst ideas of all time, right up there with Last Hitting.

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GTFO, this isnt dota.

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We don't need recipes, but they'd be a nice addition. Also last hitting worked fine in DotA.

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Alot of people here have stated they dislike the item recipies and it does appar to be more of a engine limitation than an idea with DOTA in war3 having only 6 item slots and no user interface for upgrading items.

Here is a thread someone started a while back about having item upgrades rather than recipies which is pretty much the same thing just alot less complex. I for one would like to see something implmented with upgrading items just because the depth and combinations involved would add alot of variety to the game.

As you can see alot of animosity in the forums from people stating Demigod should not have this or that taken from Dota. I think there is definitly a good middle ground but would like to see the Dota concepts upgraded like the inventory system. I think demigod has a better inventory system already keeping only one shop with multiple tabs and an artifact shop that must be controlled.

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It's very stupid and detrimental to the development of this game when people flat out reject things from DotA simply because they are from DotA.

This game is based on DotA, and DotA is a very, very successful and popular mod. Get over it. This game's success can probably be measured by how well it approximates DotA's gameplay. Simple as that.

As for item upgrades as opposed to recipes: that works too. We just really need something to add to what we currently have. Just buying a few basic items - chestpiece, helm, gloves, boots, jewelry - with some basic stats on them isn't enough. Not when there are very similar games (game-mods) which have quite a lot of depth in their itemization.

The fact is, one of this game's greatest competitors will be DotA, even though DotA isn't actually a game, per se. If this game has huge, glaring spots where it is weaker or less interesting than DotA, that will hurt its success. Currently, itemization is one such glaring spot.

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I think that most people who have played Dota would agree that they do not want Demigod to be exactly like Dota and have all the same stuff because if thats the case were just gona go play dota. Demigod has the chance to really bring new strategic value and differences that will set it appart. I think that as long as each demigod has many possible ways to play them, and the items get fleshed out, it will be fantastic. A game like this is going to take some time to get everything balanced... look at dota, over the past 5 years it has taken a long time to really balance it all out. The acheivement items right now seem pretty cool concept to me. It gives everyone a little something extra to start the game with while hopefully not killing the balance as long as they all stay within reason. Alot of variety right there since you can only equip one of them and there could be dozens of them to choose from.

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Quoting Arisal,

reply 6

I think that most people who have played Dota would agree that they do not want Demigod to be exactly like Dota and have all the same stuff because if thats the case were just gona go play dota. Demigod has the chance to really bring new strategic value and differences that will set it appart. I think that as long as each demigod has many possible ways to play them, and the items get fleshed out, it will be fantastic. A game like this is going to take some time to get everything balanced... look at dota, over the past 5 years it has taken a long time to really balance it all out. The acheivement items right now seem pretty cool concept to me. It gives everyone a little something extra to start the game with while hopefully not killing the balance as long as they all stay within reason. Alot of variety right there since you can only equip one of them and there could be dozens of them to choose from.

Straw man. Did I ever say I want it to be exactly like DotA? No. I did, I'll admit, say that Demigod's success will be measured by how well is aproximates the gameplay of DotA. I still hold this to be true. Demigod needs to take what made DotA successful and then try to improve on what wasn't so great about it. At the moment, GPG has succeeded in laying the basic framework for the game which is similar to the DotA framework. Unfortunately, they've missed a lot of the key aspects, many of them subtle, that make DotA so great - more than just a fun WC3 mod.

Itemization with a significant amount of depth and choice is one of the strongest aspects of DotA, and it would be great folly for GPG not to attempt to implement a similar and / or somewhat improved system in Demigod. Right now, itemization is very much lacking.

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Ok guys I dodnm't like the idea but dodn't just hate him explain the problems of this. Also hello frog100 good game.

edit: i just dopdn't think item recipeds would work for demigod. because they are too complicated and takes time to track down what items u need for them which can ghet annoying even if ity did work for other games

edit2: on a second note item recipes wouldn't be that bad but not exactly recipes but what if u could spend 500 gold to combine same itemsa. When i say same I mean 2 differnt helmets could be combined. this would allow for more differnces in items and if a game is really long people would have something to buy.

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Btw everyone stop lieing...

This game is not DotA it is Hero Wars.. Stop making the comparison lol.

Anyone who says this game is like DotA has not played DotA.

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dude its like Dota but its not Dota. its also like alot of other games.

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More like this game is a 3-D Hero Wars. Everything is the same except even Hero Wars has more options and depth than this game

I mean I would not be surprised if the developers thought they were playing DotA, but actually playing Hero Wars

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Quoting MaRiO-,

reply 11

More like this game is a 3-D Hero Wars. Everything is the same except even Hero Wars has more options and depth than this game

I mean I would not be surprised if the developers thought they were playing DotA, but actually playing Hero Wars

While that would be funny, I doubt it. I have a feeling the developers think they are approximating DotA quite well, they just don't understand some of the aspects of DotA that don't seem all important but are actually what make it so much more than something like "Hero Wars."

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Quoting Soccer194,

reply 8

Ok guys I dodnm't like the idea but dodn't just hate him explain the problems of this. Also hello frog100 good game.

edit: i just dopdn't think item recipeds would work for demigod. because they are too complicated and takes time to track down what items u

It's called depth. A good game requires it.

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Quoting zenithian,

reply 2

GTFO, this isnt dota.

lol at people hating on DotA

I really hope the developers do not feel the same way

IMO If the developers were smart they should of just built the game exactly like DotA first and then make there changes after that

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Quoting PossiblyImpossible,

reply 5

It's very stupid and detrimental to the development of this game when people flat out reject things from DotA simply because they are from DotA.

This game is based on DotA, and DotA is a very, very successful and popular mod. Get over it. This game's success can probably be measured by how well it approximates DotA's gameplay. Simple as that.

As for item upgrades as opposed to recipes: that works too. We just really need something to add to what we currently have. Just buying a few basic items - chestpiece, helm, gloves, boots, jewelry - with some basic stats on them isn't enough. Not when there are very similar games (game-mods) which have quite a lot of depth in their itemization.

The fact is, one of this game's greatest competitors will be DotA, even though DotA isn't actually a game, per se. If this game has huge, glaring spots where it is weaker or less interesting than DotA, that will hurt its success. Currently, itemization is one such glaring spot.

People don't reject recipes because they are bad, people reject recipes because they are bad design. Recipes are overly complex and the way DotA Allstars implements them removes pressure from the items slots. They are really a work around for a number of iffy design issues that were created when Guinso stole the map from Eul. Recipes are a way to get around the heavy death penalty and still have uber-items. The way DotA Allstars implemented them you effective have many more item slots than you do.

The smaller item set system is easier for newbies to learn, it still has plenty of build choices, but also puts a balance between investing in the team and investing in yourself as you are less able to carry 10 god items. Complexity for the sake of complexity is bad. The current item system could just be expanded if you feel some holes exist within it.

Like it or not, there is a ton of bad design in DotA allstars.

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The idea came from Dota as we all should no but if the devs want to make this game good they need to do things differntly from Dota beacause why buy a game for $50 dollars when u can play dota for free. well not free but only $40 but those $40 dollars also pay for wc3 and its expansion. yes they do need more things to do with items. right no I basicly get the same items every time maybe some little changes depending on what DG I am but still. recipes are 1 way to change this but recipes are hard to remember and are difficult for new people to learn. So i think their need to be another way to change and make items have alarger role in the game. not just let me get the most expensive items I can and kick ass. I have a couple possibilities first as I said earlier not exactly recipes but what if u could spend 500 gold to combine same itemsa. When i say same I mean 2 differnt helmets could be combined. this would allow for more differnces in items and if a game is really long people would have something to buy. second would to be to have some items only for each Dg or generals besides items that summon things( maybe aura items) and assasins. This way the differnce between each demigod is larger and assasins and generals will be even more differnt.

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I'm still in favor of a different item set for each map.

Not saying thats ALL items need. I just think it'll make each map more unique. Like, some you can use the Warpstone, some the Wand of Speed. That'd change how I play on that map completly. Would also make achievement items that mimic and item that is missing on a map very desirable.

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That would also be pretty nice too. didn't think of that.

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Quoting Warskullx,

reply 15

Quoting PossiblyImpossible, reply 5It's very stupid and detrimental to the development of this game when people flat out reject things from DotA simply because they are from DotA.

This game is based on DotA, and DotA is a very, very successful and popular mod. Get over it. This game's success can probably be measured by how well it approximates DotA's gameplay. Simple as that.

As for item upgrades as opposed to recipes: that works too. We just really need something to add to what we currently have. Just buying a few basic items - chestpiece, helm, gloves, boots, jewelry - with some basic stats on them isn't enough. Not when there are very similar games (game-mods) which have quite a lot of depth in their itemization.

The fact is, one of this game's greatest competitors will be DotA, even though DotA isn't actually a game, per se. If this game has huge, glaring spots where it is weaker or less interesting than DotA, that will hurt its success. Currently, itemization is one such glaring spot.
People don't reject recipes because they are bad, people reject recipes because they are bad design. Recipes are overly complex and the way DotA Allstars implements them removes pressure from the items slots. They are really a work around for a number of iffy design issues that were created when Guinso stole the map from Eul. Recipes are a way to get around the heavy death penalty and still have uber-items. The way DotA Allstars implemented them you effective have many more item slots than you do.

The smaller item set system is easier for newbies to learn, it still has plenty of build choices, but also puts a balance between investing in the team and investing in yourself as you are less able to carry 10 god items. Complexity for the sake of complexity is bad. The current item system could just be expanded if you feel some holes exist within it.

Like it or not, there is a ton of bad design in DotA allstars.

Of course there is. But there's also a lot of good design in it. At the moment, there's a lot more good design in DotA than there is in Demigod (imo). However, DotA has had a while. But I think GPG has some catching up to do. Yea, item recipes aren't perfect the way they are implemented in DotA. But they add more depth and decision making, which Demigod currently lacks.

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While I agree that Demigod needs more depth, I dont think Item recipes will change much.

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Not on their own they won't, but they might help.

I also think that making gold needs to be more difficult in order for itemization to mean anything. As it is you make gold pretty much without trying to.

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It's kind of off topic, but I feel that Generals and Assassins should have different item sets.

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Quoting Teseer,

reply 22

It's kind of off topic, but I feel that Generals and Assassins should have different item sets.

Perhaps. But I think I'd rather see there simply be a much larger selection of items that allow you to customize your hero in different ways.

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I would love that as well

I just don't think I should be able to do the same things on a General that I can an Assassin.

I think General items should be less powerful but cheaper, making it easier to focus more on troops without making troops cheaper. (I think the price is OK for now)

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IMO, there is something "lacking" in the current items. You just buy item X to improve stat Y, and they don't really do anything meaningful besides that. They should really complement the abilities more, though I'm not sure if recipies are the answer.

To use DotA as a comparison, a Butterfly is a great weapon, but only on certain heroes. In Demigod, getting the All-Father Ring is a safe bet on pretty much anyone. So...there needs to be some actual strategy in your item build, which is something we don't have a ton of right now.

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