Open the Beta Up to Non-Preorders

PossiblyImpossible

Join Date 08/2008

Open the Beta Up to Non-Preorders

We need more people. We need more feedback, we need more people playing the game, and we need different perspectives. You can't expect to get a broad, reliable spectrum of gameplay analysis and feedback from people who are (obviously) already going to buy the game. You need to get feedback from people who are on the fence, from the subset of potential players who are not as inclined to go for Demigod right away.

You can't expect to get a lot of useful feedback from people who are, for the most part, pretty happy with the game simply based on its description.

Besides the feedback issue, we simply need more people. The forums are fairly active, but they could be a lot more so. Online gameplay is somewhat active (read: not very) and it could really use an improvement. Between the desync and connection issues and the relative lack of people playing, I find myself very lucky just to get a 2v2 going that lasts for more than 5 minutes. It's pretty hard for any of us to give good feedback when it's that difficult to consistently get games going. This game isn't designed solely for 1v1 and 2v2.

Bring in more people to help out with this game. It has potential, but having more testers would really help with this.

demigod

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Quoting Mooglepies,

reply 24

Some people will sign up for anything that looks like a chance to play a game for free. They may not necessarily care about participating in discussion to make the game better, they just want something to do.

Maybe I'm just a cynic though.

You do get some of those, of course. But though people like that won't bother to post, they'll still provide data for the developers in the form of crash reports etc (information automatically sent back) and since they're not posting they won't have a negative effect on feedback discussion.

The mere fact that you get some people who aren't helpful doesn't mean that you shouldn't allow people to sign up at all. I mean, honestly, we get people who are useless as testers here even when the beta is open only to preorders, yet all of you are still 100% okay with allowing preorders to beta test the game. Don't flatter yourselves so much that you think that just because you preordered the game that you're so much a better kind of person to be testing this game than somebody who would just sign up for the beta out of curiousity and for something to do.

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How about rewarding some of the pre-orderers who have high karma with 1 friend invite? Seems like a good compromise. We could use some more people. Connection issues aside, sometimes it is hard to find a game because it seems like few people are actually playing.

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I don't want to be a jerk about it, but I would play more often if I didn't think a match would last over an hour

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Quoting Anthion,

reply 2

Or that just pre-ordered.

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Quoting Zubaz,

reply 1

Good feedback.

However, Stardock has a long history of pre-order access to betas and it's worked out well. You end up having a core of people that are invested in making the game better. It limits the amount of less useful feedback from people that don't know the game style adn may not really care.

I think it also reinforces the fact that this is not a demo. It's a beta. In your post above you mentioned he desync issues. You understand that this is a process and you are not going to go out and tell everyone you know that the game sucks . . . JoeUser might do just that. Everyone loses.

i somewhat disagree with this. i dont have the game due to this online payment but because of me wanting this game so much, ive been posting on the forums of the knowledge i know of the game and only giving suggestions based on that or even giving feedback to other peoples suggestions. i dont know how good my suggestions are, but they could be of inspirational value to bring up other ideas.

if i had the game id be able to suggest more but i dont. so i think a version where its free but very much limited in content should be available for people that dont necessarily want to pay over the net like this.

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ZubaZ

Join Date 11/2001

+917

so i think a version where its free but very much limited in content should be available for people that dont necessarily want to pay over the net like this.

A free demo will be realeased afterthe game launches if this sticks to the normal Stardock process.

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Heavenfall

Join Date 07/2008

+441

Edited out, too harsh.

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wouldnt it be more beneficial if the demo is out before the game is released, especially if you're wanting to get feedback. i know thats why you have got a beta but i think the payment is limiting the amount of people that could actually be participating in these beta phases.

but its not my choice anyway, only my opinion. ill be waiting for it in the market either way.

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Heavenfall

Join Date 07/2008

+441

Purposefully limiting. The game is not expensive by any standard.

And spending resources on an extra version when you've just switched to "high gears" for the retail version isn't likely.

Seriously, if you want to participate in the beta, just buy the game. That is the condition.

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Zoomba

Join Date 11/2002

+114

Quoting Heavenfall,

reply 9

Purposefully limiting. The game is not expensive by any standard.

And spending resources on an extra version when you've just switched to "high gears" for the retail version isn't likely.

Seriously, if you want to participate in the beta, just buy the game. That is the condition.

You hit the nail on the head. Demos take time and resources to make. Any work done on a demo is work not done on finishing the game itself. We'd rather put all of our art, code and QA resources on getting the game done and polished. After that we can move on to the demo.

Pre-order only betas have done very very well for Stardock over the years. While I understand the frustration for those who aren't sure if they want to buy the game or not, I just have to repeat that the beta is not a demo and isn't meant to entice you into buying. Do we have fewer potential testers because of it? Sure, in a theoretical sense I guess, but there's no guarantee we'll get meaningful returns in terms of good feedback.

From what I've seen of game betas I've participated in in the past, there's a point of diminishing returns. After a certain point you may be adding thousands of testers, but for every thousand you get one person who wants to actually test, and 999 people who want a free game, hit one bug, yell "this sucks!" and walk away. Those people then judge the final retail product on their very early (and unpolished) beta experience, which is never indicative of the final product.

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Quoting Zoomba,

reply 10

Quoting Heavenfall,
reply 9
Purposefully limiting. The game is not expensive by any standard.

And spending resources on an extra version when you've just switched to "high gears" for the retail version isn't likely.

Seriously, if you want to participate in the beta, just buy the game. That is the condition.

You hit the nail on the head. Demos take time and resources to make. Any work done on a demo is work not done on finishing the game itself. We'd rather put all of our art, code and QA resources on getting the game done and polished. After that we can move on to the demo.

Pre-order only betas have done very very well for Stardock over the years. While I understand the frustration for those who aren't sure if they want to buy the game or not, I just have to repeat that the beta is not a demo and isn't meant to entice you into buying. Do we have fewer potential testers because of it? Sure, in a theoretical sense I guess, but there's no guarantee we'll get meaningful returns in terms of good feedback.

From what I've seen of game betas I've participated in in the past, there's a point of diminishing returns. After a certain point you may be adding thousands of testers, but for every thousand you get one person who wants to actually test, and 999 people who want a free game, hit one bug, yell "this sucks!" and walk away. Those people then judge the final retail product on their very early (and unpolished) beta experience, which is never indicative of the final product.

I would hope 999 of those people wouldn't play just because it is free. I would hope that 500 people buy the game, 500 people refer to their friends to try the game for a certain period with a CD key/account that will expire after that time.

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I'm pretty sure those numbers are pretty much correct. I mean i have to say I myself have done that many times.

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well theyre all very valid points anyway. i am just one out of many. we all see the logic differently and plus the 'pay 2 play the beta' is not such a stupid idea anyway.

Quoting Heavenfall,

reply 9

its not just about paying, its about it being over the net and paying, for me.

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Heavenfall

Join Date 07/2008

+441

If you cannot meet the rules of the market, then you cannot participate in it. However much you want to.

I'm willing to believe you're a good guy, but the arguments presented above are still sound. There is no way to differentiate you from the hungering masses. What makes perfect sense to you, may be just a lame excuse others can utilize. Is there dead weight? Yes, of course there is. Undeniably, not having a more open beta cuts out players that could have given "good" feedback. This is still an acceptable loss, because the risks are far greater and outweigh the benefits.

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What people said about most who get beta's or demo's for free just want some free playing. Also demigods beta has alot in it, practicly alot the whole game at the moment.

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im not the maker so i got no say anyway. if it came down to it, id probably charge for a beta also if it works out well. its just my loss that i choose not to buy over the net, even though i really want the game. id just like to be apart of the improvement phase

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Personally I think if you opened up the beta to the masses, the amount of quality feedback given compared to the "noise" (ie- useless posts that aren't contributory to the beta process, or people who want the game to be something else) would suffer greatly. The Dawn of War II beta just recently went open, and there is alot more noise (even to the extent of one guy saying there wasn't much action or fighting - for those who played that beta feel free to chuckle.).

Not only that but most people would take it as a demo and considering we still have some ways to go until release, their impressions would be greatly inaccurate compared to the eventual retail release.

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u played dow 2 beta was it better than dow or what i really only like the original dow so would u say its looking like it could be better or what. i no its not finished just does it have some promise.

sry to be off topic.

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