Sevenix

Join Date 04/2008

+16

Fixes and proposed changes for Demigod day0 patch.

During this weekend I started up a private pastebin at demigod.pastebin.com which a few people and I used to create a list of stuff we feel the devs should focus extra on for the Day 0 patch.

Thanks to all who contributed to this list.

Engine

Death: Please give an option to "disable sepia filter during death".

Key binds: Please give the ability to rebind the keys that are usually reserved for the camera, among these being ASWD which totally ruins the common QWER for skills and ASDF for items which is widely used within dota for example.

Heals Are Negative damage: This makes for some wierd stuff for example sedna heals for 10% more when the enemy team got the 10% more damage to enemies flag, This is also an issue during score screen when healing pulls your overall damage down, and as such you get less favor.

Unit doesn't perform command: Sometimes (mostly directly after using a warp) the demigod refuses to use any ability you order him to use, he will be in this state till you order him to move after which you can use his abilities again.

Network

Better Connectivity still needed.

Multiplayer lobby screen sometimes fail to update.

Multiplayer lobby screen fails to kick people that left the game.

Timeouts in lobby need to be fixed

Must be possible to rejoin a the same matchlobby after you left/timed out

Fix so you don't have to restart demigod between each game

Gameplay

Stuns: They are still overpowered and due to their mechanic of removing all control of a players demigod, they probably always will be.But perhaps deny a new stun to be applied to an already stunned target so that at least you get a chance to do something in between.

Slowing effects: Balance slows, preferably by reducing all slow effects by 50%, or implementing a bigger flora of anti slow items.

Teleport: All kinds of teleports are quite overpowered as it is, a team cant even dare try retaking a flag since at any time during this they may have 3 rooks instantly appear out of nowhere.

Allied Demigods Portraits: In upper right corner or something, which shows their Health/mana and perhaps debuff icons, These icons should also be targetable by your skill so that you can easily cast heal on the right demigod during a fight without having to rotate your camera around the enemy rook.

Demigod Portrait: Make it targetable for spells in the same way, one should be able to heal or shield oneself by picking the portrait as target.

Random Demigod Option: An option to not select a specific demigod in multiplayer lobby but rather pick random.

Observer Slots: It existed in early beta I believe, would be nice if you could get it again.

Trebuchet Upgrade in Citadel: The Trebs still hurt you and your allies

Items

Thorns: The items using this function are never used, mainly because they don't provide an efficient effect.

Anti Slow Items: Add Anti-slow items to the normal shops.

1% Chances: If item/ability effects are so strong they can only occur once in 100 times they don't belong in the game, Also it makes the items boring since the effect never occurs. Get rid of all 1% and remake them to 10% minimum, can always scale the effect to retain balance. However, currently all the 1% items effects aren't even too good. IE: The 1% chance for 300 damage absorb shield. That basically reduces damage by 3 per hit. Suggestion would instead be to have 100% chances but have them on cooldowns, for example on hit you gain a shield with 300hp but you cant get another shield from the same item for 2 minutes.

Items which are underpowered: Totem of Revelation(although its good for its price of 50g),Heavens Wrath, Blade of the Serpent,

Items which are overpowered: Staff of Renewal, Cloak of the Night, Wyrmskin Gloves, Furious Blade,

Demigods

Rooks Health: HP dropped a tad, as it is now he is invulnerable. I'd suggest the +500 at start is fine, but he should end at +500 as well, not +2000.

Torchbearers Shatter: is a bit too good(up to 2.9k damage in combo, more than Rooks boulder + slam), the function of it makes the game damn fun to play though, more skills like it please. See link for detail: http://forums.demigodthegame.com/343246

Regulus Snipe: Still would like to see it as a target ground and it hits whatever it runs into first. We've all clamored for this since beta1!

Oak is terrible at low levels: until level 8 or 9. More starting armor would help, but he needs more than that.

Erebus needs some buffs: He's currently the worst, with Oak the Second worst. More starting move speed would help, as well as a buff to mistform(The manacost should be 125MPS at all levels, not start at 75, so it isn't just used for perma-immortality. But damage should be increased by 25 across all levels, or it should do 33% more damage to demigods) and give the life leach aura earlier(4/7/10 instead of 0/0/10). Also his Night Walkers seem unable to attack a moving target, which is a major problem.

Torch Bearers Deep Freeze: Its 220% cooldown function seems to be acting weird, if you have a cooldown at 10 sec and get hit, it turns to 22 sec for 7 secs, but after those 7 secs when down to 15secs and the buff is removed, your real cooldown is back to 3 secs where it would have been had you not gotten deep freezed. shouldnt the real cooldown really be 15/2.2=6,8 secs? See link for detail: http://forums.demigodthegame.com/343333

Unclean Beast: He probably needs a slight nerf in damage if nothing else.

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not a lot of things to add, i mostly agree with everything. The only thing that upsets me is that many of those issues were already pointed repeatedly and i don't think the devs ever told us if they were gonna try to correct all this (like that infuriating sepia effect for exemple) or if they will leave it that way either by choice of by lack of time.

Also, i don't think that the rook has so many hp, i mean, he is really really slow, so he has to have a lot of hps in order to get to close range, maybe the stone that allows teleporting being the only way to efficiently approche a demigod is the problem here (it suppress some of the rook handicap).

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Brilliant post Sevenix - adresses all the main issues at the moment.

If these were to all make into to day0 patch this game would be very, very polished.
If none of these get in, then things wont be looking so good.

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I have to agree to this list.

If this can make it on release or a patch on release day, it will be great.

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one idea for the stun thing, and maybe this should be its own post, but maybe after someone has been stunned, for the next 10/15/? seconds the demigod has a 10%/20%/50%/?% chance to resist another stun?

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i agree with the stun resistance.. i just had a match couple days ago.. really annoying(though well executed)

first i was stunned by rooks boulder, TBs freeze, and then Erebus stun.. quite annoying... also considering that i had a hammer swing down and then TBs shatter skill... i didnt really have a chance.

i think that the stun resistance is a good idea.. although kinda unfair to the people wishing TO stun people...

right now though i just want the lag to end.. its really bad especially anything over 6 players... it makes teh game unplayable.

also i totally agree with the list. Great post Sevenix

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Allied Demigods Portraits

If there were one new feature that could be added at launch, this one should be it imho! Trying to click on someone in the middle of a chaotic melee (who isn't a rook) is so frustrating I've just avoided playing any kind of support role.

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Great post. If all of those were fixed on day0, it'd be a good start on getting the game being really nice within a few months.

Oh yeah left out 2 things though:
Need to be able to switch sides in Pantheon.
And Frost Nova should be the same cast time, or slower, than the other AoE controls (erebus aoe stun for example.)
Or longer, even. Not only does he have the gigantic AoE stun, but he has an interupt and other things too. Really, Frost Nova should probably be TWO SECOND cast time. But maybe 1.5 second. 0.9 is too quick for it. It's too hard to interupt with pounce, for example, or another stun, when it's like the most powerful stun, and TB has plenty of other powerful abilities.

Right now, Erebus's Aoe stun is a smaller range, and 1.0sec cast Frost nova is 0.9 sec. While Frost Nova is higher level req, it requires less point investment (3 points to max, while erebus stun is 4 points to get 2 seconds.) and Frost Nova has a secondary debuff to it. So I think Frost Nova, for a number of reasons, should be 1.5 second cast..

I forgot about those 2 when you were doing the list.

Quoting ToxDrawace,

reply 4

Na.. "Chances" don't belong in that sort of thing. Random shouldn't decide dyingor sruviving from getting stunlocked. :/

If you simply don't get stunned while stunned, it takes more skill to chain stun people.

Not only that, but it's overdoing it. Maybe stuns will show to be fine when they are negated instead of replaced when using it on someone stunned? Need to take it one step at a time with such a thing.

Quoting techubus,

reply 6

Allied Demigods Portraits

If there were one new feature that could be added at launch, this one should be it imho! Trying to click on someone in the middle of a chaotic melee (who isn't a rook) is so frustrating I've just avoided playing any kind of support role.

http://forums.demigodthegame.com/323188 Suggested back in B1. So doubt we're going to get that in just a month from now, or ever.

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I already entered my list elsewhere, so I'll only comment on what's here.

General comment : If an ability or demigod is strong, don't usually water it down. Add counter-measures and bring other demigods up to par.

Note to devs : I read somewhere that each demigod costs 100,000$ to make. As it is, Sedna Oak and Erebus are going overboard. Just a waste.

Also, I don't see any way around postponing release date. You can't say "buy now, we'll fix it later". There are just too many issues right now, including critical ones, that should be brought at least close to optimal in final beta some 2 weeks before release. Patches should address minor glitches and then mainly promote balance and diversity ( like, un-kill dead features such as SCFA's Brick and SCU ) through the first year.

Ok, so :

Death : Bring back some of the interaction, not all. Some denial adds to the drama. But allow information like HP of structures and a look at current abilities and citadel upgrades so a plyayer can plan some, so death "gives you time to think things over".

Stuns : Leave it be. They are powerful but short and it requires team skill to chain them and skill should be rewarded.

Add slow counter-measures, agree. Slows are common and relatively prolonged. But if so, add some damage to Regulus.

Teleports : Again, leave be. Tripple teleport requires coordination and resources and should be rewarded. Legit tactic.

Totem of Revelation : The cost is the slot occupied. At least double range.

Rook health : Leave be. Against a skilled ranged-demigod player the Rook will have his challenge. Perhaps have speed buffs and debuffs affect him only half ( say due to his size ), I would hate to see a Boots of Speed and Ankled Rook chasing me.

Regulus Snipe : I don't understand the problem.

Oak is terrible at low levels and stays that way. Generals must have powerful auras, that's the correct way to fix them. Plus specific enhancements to some abilities to reward activity rather than have them just hang around and dodge assassins.

Erebus needs quite an overhaul. For example, his bat skill would naturally be used for temporary retreat, so no point of having it damage anything in its path ... and his bite is much inferior to AoE and ranged abilities despite being 0 range and single target. All of his abilities are just plain useless.

UB : leave be. If anything, he might require a buff a few weeks after release - melee demigod with no defenses.

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MErcury, I disagree with too much of your stuff to list..

Also I think it'd just be better to cap slow effects stacking to 33%. But ontop of that, a non achievement item that caps it to 25%(or 20%..) would still be good.

Wurmskin gloves 25% is fine on their own. Like, try them on Sedna, who has no other slows. Sure, Wurmskin should still cost like 2k and be 20% though.
It's when on UB, or Regulas, when they're getting 50% slow that they seem soo overpowered.

Just stack slows at 30% and Regulas can either get 30% slow from skills alone, and save the money. Get 30% from wurmskin+lvl 1 maim, or get that last 3 % with wurmskin+lvl2 maim.
Adds a lot more depth to it that way too, figuring what would be the most effecient way to get the 33%, instead of simply stacking as much slow as possible which makes the game so unfun for the receiver.

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Stuns : Leave it be. They are powerful but short and it requires team skill to chain them and skill should be rewarded.

It requires minimum team skill and is very easy to pull off. The amount of damage done with chain stuns is not proportional to the amount of skill it takes.

Teleports : Again, leave be. Tripple teleport requires coordination and resources and should be rewarded. Legit tactic.

Again, isnt THAT hard (you mention tripple, but double is much easier) and makes it quite hard to take flags without being steam rolled vs a Rook. However, I do kind of like the idea of it, and I think the best fix would just be a teleport animation at the area that they are teleporting to.

Skilled ranged-demigod vs 8khp Rook is not a challenge. Boulder - Warp - Slam isnt hard to pull of agaisnt range or melee Demigods and is 8k+hp just makes its very, very, very hard to kill him. No one here thinks he shouldnt have more hp than everyone else....but I mean 8k+hp is too much..

However I like your idea of debuffs and buffs only giving him half effect. Would be nice if they could add that

Regulus Snipe : I don't understand the problem.

Well it would be a lot nicer if snipe took more skill to pull off and it would be much funner if had to actually aim it. It worked with Rooks Hammer Slam, dont see why they shouldnt do it with Regulus's snipe.

Also, Regulus can chase people through the fog for 5 minutes straight and snipe them without actually being able to see them (as long as he tries to snipe before they go into fog)/.

UB : leave be. If anything, he might require a buff a few weeks after release - melee demigod with no defenses.

Currently one of the stronger Demigods. Say what you want, but try playing with him and tell me he isnt at least the 3rd best

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Oh and I actually disagree with the snipe a bit. It shouldn't hit he first target, it should penetrate through them in a long line, and be ground targeted.

If it were to hit a single target, it needs to be less mana and a 7 second recharge or something. I'd rather have it pierce through hitting multiple targets, possibly losing damage after each hit.

A lot of people simply want more good ground-targetted skills because they take more skill to pull off, so it's less a numbers game..

And i wouldn't call UB the 3rd best. Sedna, UB, QoT, and regulas are all pretty even IMO. Ice TB and Rook are strongest(imba), Oak and Erebus are weakest.

Oh also forgot, need increased gold and xp reward for killing archers and minotaurs. Currently you basically need to inrease spawn rate to fast to get the reward how it should be. Need to get like 50% more gold and xp from archers and minotaurs.
The reason is.. there are way too many reasons how this would improve gameplay. One is that it'd encourage people spreading out.

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Hmm A ground target snipe. Could be interesting to test that.

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This list pretty much covers all of the major issues and alot of the minor ones. I'd like to play the game fixing these would produce.

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We need a bigger list for the underpowered items.

I think about 30% of the items are completely redundant, and need a redesign. another 30% need some buffs to make them useful.

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I have a few things to add:

1. The generals priests are quite bad in the way they work now. They heal very rare and they tend to not heal if you order them on an allied demigod.

My idea to solve this problem would be: Change the generals priests to heal only.

Reason: If you want damage minions you wouldn't buy priests, you only buy them for heal but they are quite bad at that curently. If they only could heal, one would be able to order them on a demigod and they would follow and heal him.

If the npc priests would only heal too this would add a whole new layer of strategy because you could think about defending them or killing them (depending on which ones priests you talk about ) since they have a real value in battle (which mosts npcs tend to lack).

2. You want to sell this game as a strategy game so please implement the most basic strategy thing ever

Enable individual grouping. The minion button is nice but I think for most strategie players which want to play as general thats not enough. If that doesnt fits in your scheme or else: Please make at least a priest only button!

3. There is a very annoying problem with attack priorization of the demigods:

If you order a demigod to attack another demigod he tends to stop the attack on him as soon as there are any npcs in range.

That leads to stupid perma-clicking on enemy demigods if you want to kill them. This is espacially noticeable with melee demigods. So...:

Commands ordered to a demigod should override any AI reactions/functions.

4. Regulus plays annoyingly easy or to describe it better: very uninspiringly.

It's just clicking

There is no other demigod you can play half afk.

I have no good ideas how to change that without remaking him total but the said change of snipe would be a step in the right direction.

5. Regading death: Additionally to the option to disable the sepia filter: Please give us an option to turn of the camera flight after death/during death. It's quite hard to find an optimal angle and hight for me and it's really annoying if it's changed during death.

6. I have to emphasise on the importance of the points - 1% Chances, - Stuns, - Oak, - Erebus

I agree totally to everything writen to these points in the first posting. I just never said anywhere before how important those points are for me

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I think that after a stun wears off the player needs to recieve a buff that prevents stuns for a short period of time (maybe ten seconds).

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Quoting _Mercury_,

reply 8

Stuns : Leave it be. They are powerful but short and it requires team skill to chain them and skill should be rewarded.

This is all I had to see to disagree with you. Cheers.

As for the original post:

Full of win, I didn't see anything I didn't like. I'm not saying there's not more that needs to happen, but for a day0 patch this would be fantastic.

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Quoting innociv,

reply 11

A lot of people simply want more good ground-targetted skills because they take more skill to pull off, so it's less a numbers game..

Yes.

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Quoting Daikaze,

reply 16

I think that after a stun wears off the player needs to recieve a buff that prevents stuns for a short period of time (maybe ten seconds).

This has come up in another thread that I can't find at the moment. If I come across it again I'll link it here.

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Just posting in here to say that the ideas found in the original post are all great.

The idea of ground-targetting snipe for Regulus certainly is interesting, especially if it can hit multiple targets.

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Quoting ToxDrawace,

reply 19

Quoting Daikaze, reply 16I think that after a stun wears off the player needs to recieve a buff that prevents stuns for a short period of time (maybe ten seconds).
This has come up in another thread that I can't find at the moment. If I come across it again I'll link it here.

It's come up in various threads, most noticeably the "Game Breaker" thread made by Ke5trel.

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