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Rocky_Tooth
Rocky_Tooth
Join Date 04/2009
+3

The heart of the Torch Bearer

April 19, 2009 1:57:49 PM from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

I have found the Torch Bearer to be one of my favorite demigod's to play with.  He's basically got three general ways to play him.  Fire, Ice, or Fice! lol.     However, that is not the point of this thread.

When I play a pure fire form with him, I find one item in particular to be a must have.  The Heart of Life.   It's such an amazing item and of which does not even work to its description.  It says it restores 3000 mana+hp, but I've never found it to stop till I'm full of mana      It makes battle with him very powerful.  You can move in, crush a whole giant wave of minions, throw some fire at an opponent, retreat, use the heart, and move back in.  Typically one round of spamming fire spells in a battle will suck all of your mana, forcing you to buy a lot of potions or go back to the crystal.  But not with the heart     Tell me what you think!

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Rocky_Tooth
khemintiri
Join Date 04/2009
+6
Reply #1 April 19, 2009 2:03:17 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

tbh ... heart , is too powerful for its cost , on all heroes . its a bottle on crack , im suspecting a nerf in 2-3 days

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Rocky_Tooth
transitive
Join Date 03/2007
+66
Reply #2 April 19, 2009 2:10:21 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

i really don't think its too powerful. not much anyway. almost impossible to use in combat so it just gives you alot of staying power so you can stay in a lane and harass without ever having to go back. 

 

 i dont think it needs much adjusting if any but maybe its cost is too cheap or maybe its cooldown could be longer. 

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Rocky_Tooth
TiduZ1492
Join Date 04/2009
+6
Reply #3 April 19, 2009 2:20:08 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

I play torchbearer and I get heart every game.  I must admit, I think it is a tad overpowered.  I feel kinda dirty just using it.

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Rocky_Tooth
ViridShaman
Join Date 04/2009
+8
Reply #4 April 19, 2009 2:24:40 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

I played against a Torchbearer a few days ago who was full fire and casted Circle of Fire, Fire Nova, and Fireball before he used Orb of Defiance. When he came out he would use his abilities again.

I'm not sure if you can use Heart of Life follow by Orb of Defiance though it would be a nice combination of items.

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Rocky_Tooth
chaosbrynn
Join Date 04/2009
+15
Reply #5 April 19, 2009 4:51:24 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

I have yet to see a guide that does not recommend Heart. Regardless of Demigod. It is definately on the OP side. There should be a mana cost to activate, a longer cool down or some sort of trade off to using it. Heck even an increase in gold (at least 8k) and move it to the artifact list. Maybe having the effect end on movement would be a good idea. Just all around far too powerful.

As is, this should be very high on every players priority list. I dont think there are any items that give that much benefit for so little gold.

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Rocky_Tooth
Keemossi
Join Date 04/2009
+3
Reply #6 April 19, 2009 5:43:44 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

It's a very good item for some builds, but not that op as it is. There are many other items that are so good for their prize that they benefit basically anybody. Mostly the first tier flat regen items though.

It really depends on build and playstyle whether Heart of Life is useful or not. It's great for spamming skills, but many builds do fine with just a regen helm at half the price. And Heart of Life is generally speaking no good during combat (Oak excluded?).

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Rocky_Tooth
woca
Join Date 02/2008
+21
Reply #7 April 19, 2009 5:55:42 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Quoting chaosbrynn,
reply 5
I have yet to see a guide that does not recommend Heart. Regardless of Demigod. It is definately on the OP side. There should be a mana cost to activate, a longer cool down or some sort of trade off to using it. Heck even an increase in gold (at least 8k) and move it to the artifact list. Maybe having the effect end on movement would be a good idea. Just all around far too powerful.

As is, this should be very high on every players priority list. I dont think there are any items that give that much benefit for so little gold.

seriously, a mana cost

 

that would defeat the prupose......

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Rocky_Tooth
Extacide
Join Date 04/2009
+4
Reply #8 April 19, 2009 6:09:45 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Incoming nerf...

 

in 3 updates

 

..2 updates...

 

1...

 

-nerf-

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Rocky_Tooth
n3crosys
Join Date 04/2009
0
Reply #9 April 19, 2009 8:00:33 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Why would you nerf an item that only works if no one is attacking you? Albeit the idea of using Defiance then Life is somewhat unfair, Life only works if you aren't taking damage. I.e, it's totally useless in any situation except one where you are running away and no one is chasing you, or you've already won the fight so it's kind of irrelevant.

I've never seen someone I'm fighting have a chance to fire off HoL. I've never had an opportunity to use the thing properly while getting attacked. For 4.25k gold, I'd say it does exactly what it's supposed to do.

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Rocky_Tooth
Guardian316
Join Date 06/2008
0
Reply #10 April 19, 2009 8:09:48 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Oak's shield plus HoL is just evil. "Hi, I just became invincible, care to watch my health and mana skyrocket?"

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Rocky_Tooth
khemintiri
Join Date 04/2009
+6
Reply #11 April 19, 2009 8:44:58 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

is there any1 here who plays dota ? ... ever wondered why they nerfed bottle into oblivion and its still the most used item more or less ? , to regen mana and get into combat again is its biggest benefit , get 2 steps ahead of the person chasing you  , pop it 5 3 secs later they turn , 6 secs later they die , its as easy as that.

 

and so much staying power you never need to go back again.

and a pushing tool aswell , charge the tower until you get low on hp , heart up get back again.

 

also oak with shield , erebus with bat form , activating it after a stun/freeze will net you about 600-900 mana and hp aswell.

 

all this for 4250 , only hero ive tried to not use it on is rook as he only needs regen/hp items but alas i wished i had it anyways

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Rocky_Tooth
Keemossi
Join Date 04/2009
+3
Reply #12 April 19, 2009 8:58:54 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Khemintiri, those are quite valid points. But it's much easier to stay on the front for long times in Demigod even without using HoL than it is in DotA. In Demigod distances between towers are much smaller on most maps, so hanging around with low health/mana is pretty safe, and even cheap health/mana regen items combined with natural regen allow demigods to hang around longer.

Maybe if HoL needed some kind of channeling, it would at least prevent demigods from using it while running away. I still feel it's not that good, at least for every demigod.

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Rocky_Tooth
TiduZ1492
Join Date 04/2009
+6
Reply #13 April 19, 2009 9:47:34 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

It's 5250 not 4250.

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Rocky_Tooth
B0sh1
Join Date 04/2009
0
Reply #14 April 19, 2009 10:59:04 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Heart is a crazy item, really needs to be looked at. It's pretty much a must have for any ranged heros.

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Rocky_Tooth
Extacide
Join Date 04/2009
+4
Reply #15 April 19, 2009 11:09:42 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

I've never seen someone I'm fighting have a chance to fire off HoL. I've never had an opportunity to use the thing properly while getting attacked. For 4.25k gold, I'd say it does exactly what it's supposed to do.

 

I'll fraps myself and send it to you.

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Rocky_Tooth
B0sh1
Join Date 04/2009
0
Reply #16 April 20, 2009 2:16:25 AM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Any sort of invuln will allow you to get the heart off.

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Rocky_Tooth
The_Regicide
Join Date 02/2005
+22
Reply #17 April 20, 2009 2:52:16 AM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

No, Tidus, it is 4250...

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Rocky_Tooth
innociv
Join Date 02/2008
+34
Reply #18 April 20, 2009 3:16:59 AM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

What is most important for fire TB is -cooldown items.

That one item for hp and mp restore is nice though but 3 or 4 second recharge on fireball is what's going to give you lots of kills at lvl10.

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Rocky_Tooth
The_Regicide
Join Date 02/2005
+22
Reply #19 April 20, 2009 3:25:38 AM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

HoL helps in that regard even more, with simply sick mana regen.

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Rocky_Tooth
khemintiri
Join Date 04/2009
+6
Reply #20 April 20, 2009 4:43:27 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

first 10 times i clicked it i stood still cause i thought ii was channeling for sure , then i tried and whoopidoooda its even more insane

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Undead_are_here
Join Date 04/2009
0
Reply #21 April 20, 2009 6:03:20 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Yeah played as TB with that item. Never went to heal once. kinda OP

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Rocky_Tooth
anfhann
Join Date 03/2008
0
Reply #22 April 21, 2009 10:38:25 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Quoting Extacide,
reply 15

I've never seen someone I'm fighting have a chance to fire off HoL. I've never had an opportunity to use the thing properly while getting attacked. For 4.25k gold, I'd say it does exactly what it's supposed to do.

 

I'll fraps myself and send it to you.

 

Use Xfire instead of fraps I'd love to see some videos!

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Rocky_Tooth
trankillity
Join Date 03/2002
+1
Reply #23 April 22, 2009 5:50:55 AM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Yeah. The Heart is an item I strive for in every game with any Assassin I play as (Generals less so). It really does need a bit of a nerf. I reckon 1 minute cooldown (up from 30 sec) and the requirement to stand still will make it more balanced. Leave the gold cost as-is though. It's just currently too powerful if you can simply kite someone away while regenning to full health/mana, especially as the TB.

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Rocky_Tooth
liq3
Join Date 04/2009
+4
Reply #24 April 22, 2009 7:28:40 AM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Quoting trankillity,
reply 23
Yeah. The Heart is an item I strive for in every game with any Assassin I play as (Generals less so). It really does need a bit of a nerf. I reckon 1 minute cooldown (up from 30 sec) and the requirement to stand still will make it more balanced. Leave the gold cost as-is though. It's just currently too powerful if you can simply kite someone away while regenning to full health/mana, especially as the TB.
It's fine. Really.

It's useless vs several DGs in real combat. Sedna, Erebus, UB and Regulus will never let you get away. UB's plauge completely messes it up. Rook doesn't even care you have it (trust me). That leaves QoT, Torchbearer and Oak. Awesome, it's good against 3 chars. Versus everyone else it's a mobile base that costs 4,250g. 

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The_Regicide
Join Date 02/2005
+22
Reply #25 April 22, 2009 8:31:29 AM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

4250 for an ability to never have to return to base is a bargain.

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