Wheatbread

Join Date 04/2009

Tired of Multiplayer Balance + Lack of Speed in creation of games

I've played all but Sedna so far of the Demigods. Beaten SP on Hard w/ Oak. I play Oak in Pantheon but switch up in Custom games. The easiest demigods so far have been UB and Erebus. Some basic nerfing is needed of these 2 heroes. Until then the games vs these demigods have been pretty lopsided. People are starting to learn how to cheese out these heroes the most. I realized this on day 1 when I played through them all in network vs Computers.

Erebus - Bite. The return life drain needs to be reduced by about 30-40%. It has a snare and an armor reduction with it. Doesn't need to lifetap for the full amount. Cooldown could also be increased.

- Mist. Should not remove debuffs.

Unclean Beast - Venom Spit needs to do half the damage it does. This should be another complimentary damage to his melee dps similar to what Ooze is. In its current spammable state it does WAY too much damage.

Rook - This demigod is asking for some love. His Smash needs to be a 1 second cast and the area for max dmg needs to be increased. Typically the only way you hit with this vs anyone with a brain is with a stun.

Walk speed needs to be increased and hitpoints returned for a start.

lvl 15 Poison Arrows needs to be more like a 25% chance to slow. For being such a slow walker this guy could really use some type of reliable snare.

demigod

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I do agree on Erebus being a fairly easy hero to master, I do however think we need to play more games until any changes are made. I personally melted face of Erebus as oak, the key is making him drain his mana and then nuking the shit out of him.

I do agree about the rook though, his Hp/Dmg needs to be upped, walking speed needs to be lowered though. He really needs to be the tank, as you really will need to kite him or you are f*cked. Rook should be able to just walk up to any flag and capture it even if he gets DPSed he should have enough power to walk back. His walking speed needs no increase -> get speed increase items and you will be steamrolling them.

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I've yet to encounter a OP-seeming Erebus player, but I agree about Ooze. For a melee-oriented Demigod, UB has a very strong ranged DoT that makes harassing far too easy for him early on. Cutting it in half or doubling the duration but keeping the overall damage the same (halving the damage per second) would seem to make the most sense.

I also agree that Rook seems a little weak. The thing is, he used to be really OP but now that other Demigods have been buffed and stuns have been weakened (re: fixed) he doesn't seem quite so dominant. It could be just that he's harder to use now, though. I'm not sure.

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Rook is fine where he is.

Erubus changes is a maybe. I would probably just suggest a mana increase OR diminish his direct damage skills and increase the minion skills. His minion skills are a bit lacking if you ask me.

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There are some balance changes needed, but the ones you suggest would be too much.

Erebus's Bite is supposed to be a life drain, the snare and armor reduction are side effects of the bite. Like if you had your blood sucked away you would probably be a bit groggy and couldn't devend yourself as well(armor) and running wouldn't be so easy(speed). It's supposed to be there so his army can beat you up while slowed, or a way to get away from a more powerful foe or exchange the balance of life totals in his favor.

First off the problem with Unclean Beast isn't that his poison spit does like what, 2k damage over 10 seconds(?) it's that he's got the fastest speed and he slows you when he hits you. Poison spit is just the opener to pretty much gib your health regen and he barrels in and rips you apart. But that's how he was designed, it's a bit unfair, but if you want to get into the spirit of the game, these are demigods - they are supposed to be OP.

The Rook is probably one of the most balanced demigods in the game, he could use a bit more early game durability for his lack of speed and limited use of his high cost skills + low mana pool. But late game he's a destroyer, you just have to buy items to compensate for his slow speed. Hammer Smash's impact damage radius could use an increase, not much though or people will want it's damage nerfed. If you want to use smash effectively(and it works, I play a lot as rook) you run in opening with it, no one expects it. If they do run away, the 1.5s cast allows you to break it, and since you're close to them you can rock roll stun them, and then smash them into the ground like a bug. For the incredibly large damage that smash does, it shouldn't be incredibly easy to pull off or it would be unbalanced. And his arrow tower I can't really comment on, I don't know if it's 10% per arrow, which is completely fine, or if it's 10% per arrow volley, which is a little low. But you have to admit that when it does slow someone + the slow effect from smash + rock stun = a good 4-8k damage depending on their armor and your weapon damage.

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You've been playing the game for...how many days again? 5ish tops? And your calling for balance roll. Give it about two weeks before you say this.

Atm the only DG i see being slightly OP is erebus. UB isnt.

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And so begins the "Nerf X and Buff Y" threads.

Always the worst part about an online intensive game.

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I think the only balance issues are with the start of the game first few levels but even then you have to lay out your strat based on who your facing. Every class can become op if you let them get ahead of you in gold and xp.

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Rook being the way he is now is much better than what he was like in the beta.

Hammer Slam had a much larger AOE, was not targeted on the ground but on Demigods(basically imposible to avoid), comboing a Boulder Roll with a Hammer Slam was just about an insta-gib(Or close enough that it didn't matter). Plus there was the 'Snipe Bounce' problem that made Rook the bane of Regulus players.

I think it is safe to say that all the largest balance problems were found in the beta(I still remember Oak's Spirits with 2K+ health).

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Quoting ,

quoting post

With all the problems trying to get a game started and the general slowness in one starting, anywhere from 10-30minutes to get a game to start with all the connection issues and game freezing on the open games list, it seems balance is really taking a spot way down low on the list.

I've played all but Sedna so far of the Demigods. Beaten SP on Hard w/ Oak. I play Oak in Pantheon but switch up in Custom games. The easiest demigods so far have been UB and Erebus. Some basic nerfing is needed of these 2 heroes. Until then the games vs these demigods have been pretty lopsided. People are starting to learn how to cheese out these heroes the most. I realized this on day 1 when I played through them all in network vs Computers.

Erebus - Bite. The return life drain needs to be reduced by about 30-40%. It has a snare and an armor reduction with it. Doesn't need to lifetap for the full amount. Cooldown could also be increased.

          - Mist. Should not remove debuffs.

Unclean Beast - Venom Spit needs to do half the damage it does. This should be another complimentary damage to his melee dps similar to what Ooze is. In its current spammable state it does WAY too much damage.

Rook - This demigod is asking for some love. His Smash needs to be a 1 second cast and the area for max dmg needs to be increased. Typically the only way you hit with this vs anyone with a brain is with a stun.

           Walk speed needs to be increased and hitpoints returned for a start.

           lvl 15 Poison Arrows needs to be more like a 25% chance to slow. For being such a slow walker this guy could really use some type of reliable snare.

How many games have you played? I'd also argue that Vs Computers does not count (the AI is poor and not very good).

Real games Vs real opponnets needs to be played and data needs to be gathered from more than just a handful of games.

That said I'm sure there are some balance issues, but I can't say I agree much with your assesment.

Open games imo is the slowest way to get a games, Skirmish and Patheon right now are the ways to go if you want to play a lot of games. Open games really the only advantage is if you have friends you want to play with.

Erebus

Erebus's health regen does feels very strong if you min-max it so he becomes pretty tough to take down, in beta he was so weak that you pretty much always had to use Mist form to live. Now it feels like it's hardly worth putting points in. But this is with me playing 10 games (almost exclusivly Erebus). Of course with high levels and gear I think other Demigod can pump life regen and gain as well.

To get Erebus to this point, I'm usually spending 9000+ on gear and 6000+ on allies/minions. It's not cheap and it's not till late game. I have the hardest time against a well played TB or Regulu, both of which have great range attacks and typically need to pump speed so they can out run me when I move to try to kill them.

With Batform + bite and an army of minions you can take someone down very very fast (Most gear focus on giving you and your minons buffs) but it's expensive and selfish to got to that point.

Unclean Beast

I need to play him more but so far I've found one build that works effective and it revloves around Venom Spit and movement/speed increases, so reducing that in any way I think would be a bad idea. His DOT is really a good counter to both Erebus's health regen and Sedna healing auras. Overall Unclean can't take that much damage and really has to play hit and run utilizing his venom spit.

Rook

He's a siege Demigod, that's his specialty taking down towers (defending areas with his own towers). He's suppose to be slow, he's not designed as a Demigod killer, if you want that Regulus is who you should be playing. That said I've killed plenty of Demigods with Rook. IMO his hammer slam is best used to kill creeps (and gain exp) not to kill Demigods, but if Erebus with his charm work together (or any other stun ability) it can be very effective.

Levels and Gear

But in any game if a Demigod gains levels and gold on you (I.E. you're behind) they are going to feel super powerful to the point that it does not feel balanced. But this as as designed it's what helps push the game to finishing. The trick is to not die -- retreat early from bad situations. Of course some of this is also due to the lack of player feedback, I have no idea what gear a demigod is rocking and I really wish there was a way to see it with out cluttering the UI.

Maybe if when you died it showed a window of who killed you and what gear they were wearing, that would be cool.

So you could examine not only what they gear they are using but would give you a better understanding how to min-max that same demigod for another game.

-Jara

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Quoting Jaradakar,

reply 9

How many games have you played? I'd also argue that Vs Computers does not count (the AI is poor and not very good).

Real games Vs real opponnets needs to be played and data needs to be gathered from more than just a handful of games.

That said I'm sure there are some balance issues, but I can't say I agree much with your assesment.

Open games imo is the slowest way to get a games, Skirmish and Patheon right now are the ways to go if you want to play a lot of games. Open games really the only advantage is if you have friends you want to play with.

Erebus

Erebus's health regen does feels very strong if you min-max it so he becomes pretty tough to take down, in beta he was so weak that you pretty much always had to use Mist form to live. Now it feels like it's hardly worth putting points in. But this is with me playing 10 games (almost exclusivly Erebus). Of course with high levels and gear I think other Demigod can pump life regen and gain as well.

To get Erebus to this point, I'm usually spending 9000+ on gear and 6000+ on allies/minions. It's not cheap and it's not till late game. I have the hardest time against a well played TB or Regulu, both of which have great range attacks and typically need to pump speed so they can out run me when I move to try to kill them.

With Batform + bite and an army of minions you can take someone down very very fast (Most gear focus on giving you and your minons buffs) but it's expensive and selfish to got to that point.

Unclean Beast

I need to play him more but so far I've found one build that works effective and it revloves around Venom Spit and movement/speed increases, so reducing that in any way I think would be a bad idea. His DOT is really a good counter to both Erebus's health regen and Sedna healing auras. Overall Unclean can't take that much damage and really has to play hit and run utilizing his venom spit.

Rook

He's a siege Demigod, that's his specialty taking down towers (defending areas with his own towers). He's suppose to be slow, he's not designed as a Demigod killer, if you want that Regulus is who you should be playing. That said I've killed plenty of Demigods with Rook. IMO his hammer slam is best used to kill creeps (and gain exp) not to kill Demigods, but if Erebus with his charm work together (or any other stun ability) it can be very effective.

Levels and Gear

But in any game if a Demigod gains levels and gold on you (I.E. you're behind) they are going to feel super powerful to the point that it does not feel balanced. But this as as designed it's what helps push the game to finishing. The trick is to not die -- retreat early from bad situations. Of course some of this is also due to the lack of player feedback, I have no idea what gear a demigod is rocking and I really wish there was a way to see it with out cluttering the UI.

Maybe if when you died it showed a window of who killed you and what gear they were wearing, that would be cool.

So you could examine not only what they gear they are using but would give you a better understanding how to min-max that same demigod for another game.

-Jara

Exactly.

I've currently seen everyone say every Demigod is OP in turn and have almost seen every Demigod be called weak in turn, save for the popular ones (of course..). That tells me something.

Anyway..it, as always, comes down to skill. Erebus has high regeneration, but they are cheap items that can knock off large amounts of it. Nothing like suprising erebus with them and watching him go down quickly.

He's popular now and a great chaser\killer, but he's not a god just yet..only a demigod. And he's not all that hard to kill, especially if you prepare. The only problems I had extreme trouble with him were when my teamed was terrible or he was feeding...which still means my team was terrible.

If you're having trouble 1 vs 1ing him though, and don't feel bad as all but the best harassers do, bait the crap out of him and gank him. Not only will it feed you, but it'll destroy his confidence and keep him from pushing strongly as Erebus, thus limiting his effectiveness.

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I play Oak and have dominated all kinds of UB and Erebus players.

I think Erebus is easy to play too, but I dont feel hes OP. Hes the Anti DG general, and his only range skill puts him well within harms way, Kite Erebus a little, make him run his mana down then punish him.

Is bite an instant skill? With Reggie's snipe and Rooks hammer slam I pop shield as Oak and ignore them quite often, but bite seems unavoidable, and very annoying. Also what does Erebus hit for a higher levels? Without Items but with DPS skills Oak can get near 500dmg per hit with an above average attack speed, add that to his attack speed\speed buffs and Damage\speed debuffs and you can lay some beat down on Erebus, whether hes a biter or not.

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yeah I'm taking a break from Demigod. Takes forever to get a game started only to play vs 2 Erebus and an UB or 2 UBs and an Erebus. Tried Pantheon, it was the only demigods I was vs.

Just so boring when Erebus can tank everything and then life tap you while still fielding an army.

Time for a break till next balance patch.

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Rook is probably the most balanced out there, excluding his broken towers that eat too much mana and go down after 1 minutes or so. Poor guy can't afford to plant them all. Other Demigods should be adjusted to his level. Anyway, UB is clearly superior to him in many many ways in conquest games where the game can last very long. He benefits much more than rook from +damage items, has more armor, equivalent or better skill tree and better speed. I don't know about you, but I'd pick speed and armor over the rook's max hp any time. He can also dodge, slow down, stun.... even life drain!! rook can't even dodge with the right items equiped.

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