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Kalil Chernov
Kalil Chernov
Join Date 03/2006
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Twisted Erebus Strategy

April 19, 2009 7:22:39 PM from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

This probably isn't a particularly practical technique, but it is hilarious.  I started a game on Crucible with flithy rich starting cash and level 15 starting level, purchased the highest rank of Mist Form, Bat Swarm, and all the Night Walker upgrades.  I used my starting cash to stock up on helms - basically bought all the ones I could afford, although I'm sure that was substantial overkill (I still haven't figured out the math on mana regen).  I then used Bat Swarm to teleport on top of the enemies portal flag, hit the mist form button, and sat there.

Mist Form killed off a few of their minions, who convinced a few more to stay a while and die.  I very quickly had turned their portal into my nightwalker production facility.  I took out the two nearby towers, and sent my night walkers to go hammer on the citadel.

This presented my oponents with a difficult choice.  I myself was unkillable, with enough mana regen to remain in mist form indefinitely, costing them a portal at the very least.  They could port  back and protect their citadel from my nightwalkers, but then they were down a portal and a hero.  Or they could let me keep beating on their citadel, and risk losing the game, while pressing a one hero advantage in an attempt to seize my citadel first.  The computer AI was extremely confused by this tactic, as one might expect.  End result?  Hilarity.

 

Against a real oponent, I suspect this could be countered by sensible citadel upgrades.  If the minions coming out of the portal are strong enough to survive a few seconds of Mist, then the initial minion generation would require I shift out, leaving me vulnerable for a few seconds.  Furthermore, in a normal game, I'd be badly gimped early on by the bizzare (for Erebus) gear choices.

Of course, there're additional twists possible.  One is to use myself as a form of improved Portal Lock - I can shift out and seize the portal myself, generating real troops.  In an actual real late-game, with catapulasauri, this'd probably be a superior tactic.  Inifinite mistform can have quite a few other uses, as well.  No other class has /permanent/ invincibility.

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Kalil Chernov
Keemossi
Join Date 04/2009
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Reply #1 April 19, 2009 7:36:53 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

With right build, buying only mana regen items could work for early game too. Erebus isn't exactly easy to kill, and minion build should give some control. It really depends how much gold is the minimum needed for at least practically infinite mistform if this has any use. But this seems just so fun I have to try this some time

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Kalil Chernov
Agent of Kharma
Join Date 02/2008
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Reply #2 April 19, 2009 8:55:00 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Congrats, you found yet another exploit/trick/hack/OP tactic to add to the list.  Pat yourself on the back.  Fortunately, playing on "filthy rich" mode is probably not what the designers considered the standard to balance around.

Maybe you can go find even more tricks.  It seems this game revolves around the finding and subsequent memorization of tricks, hacks, exploits, builds, etc.

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Kalil Chernov
woca
Join Date 02/2008
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Reply #3 April 19, 2009 9:03:31 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Quoting Agent of Kharma,
reply 2
Congrats, you found yet another exploit/trick/hack/OP tactic to add to the list.  Pat yourself on the back.  Fortunately, playing on "filthy rich" mode is probably not what the designers considered the standard to balance around.

Maybe you can go find even more tricks.  It seems this game revolves around the finding and subsequent memorization of tricks, hacks, exploits, builds, etc.

 

wow, someone has some problems with this game. any human can easily counter this. its not a hack, nor an exploit

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Kalil Chernov
Keemossi
Join Date 04/2009
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Reply #4 April 19, 2009 9:03:34 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Agent of Kharma, like Kalil said, it wouldn't probably be anything practical. It's not an exploit nor hack, and could hardly be called OP tactic. It's a trick with benefits probably not worth the cost. This sounds like it would be good for laughs though, if that makes it OP, well.. damn.

 

Umm.. you were serious, right? Hard to tell sometimes

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Kalil Chernov
Agent of Kharma
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Reply #5 April 19, 2009 9:55:12 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

gent of Kharma, like Kalil said, it wouldn't probably be anything practical. It's not an exploit nor hack, and could hardly be called OP tactic. It's a trick with benefits...

The guy said he could sieze the portal and sit over it in mist form indefinately, and there's nothing anyone can do about it.  If they leave, he pounds on their citadel.  If they stay, they are down a portal.  How is that not OP, how is that not an exploit?  Of course, there's the caveat that this can only be done right away with the insane money mode, but still....

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Kalil Chernov
Kalil Chernov
Join Date 03/2006
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Reply #6 April 19, 2009 9:56:54 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Quoting Agent of Kharma,
reply 2
Congrats, you found yet another exploit/trick/hack/OP tactic to add to the list.  Pat yourself on the back.  Fortunately, playing on "filthy rich" mode is probably not what the designers considered the standard to balance around.

Maybe you can go find even more tricks.  It seems this game revolves around the finding and subsequent memorization of tricks, hacks, exploits, builds, etc.
Welcome to war.

Although really, filthy rich is not neccessary for the trick, it just made testing substantially easier.  Now that I've figured out exactly how mana regen works, I can work out the optimal mana regen gear and can have it honestly by the time I reach a level where it'd be useful.

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Kalil Chernov
Kalil Chernov
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Reply #7 April 19, 2009 9:59:59 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Quoting Agent of Kharma,
reply 5

The guy said he could sieze the portal and sit over it in mist form indefinately, and there's nothing anyone can do about it.  If they leave, he pounds on their citadel.  If they stay, they are down a portal.  How is that not OP, how is that not an exploit?  Of course, there's the caveat that this can only be done right away with the insane money mode, but still....
Also, it means that my side is effectively down a hero, since I'm sitting over at the enemy portal basically doing nothing but kill/convert creeps.  It's questionable wether that's more useful than playing normally, capping flags, destroying structures, etc.  It's certainly /easier/, but...

Again, I should note that by the time I took down their citadel, they'd pushed through the first line of defenses and were working on the second.  If it'd been human oponents, they might very well have been able to push their numerical advantage (3 demigods vs 2) all the way to my own citadel.

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Kalil Chernov
Teseer
Join Date 02/2008
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Reply #8 April 19, 2009 10:09:21 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

I think it's funny, lol

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Kalil Chernov
ViridShaman
Join Date 04/2009
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Reply #9 April 19, 2009 10:32:31 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Regulus can toss mines into the mist and it will in fact damage Erebus while in Mist form. Oak's AoE will affect Erebus as well. Torchbearer can bring him out by casting Circle of Fire, Fire Nova, and Rain of Ice. Just because he's in Mist form doesn't mean he is invernable. There is a reason why Bloody Haze increases his evasion by 10% while in Mist form. Since he can't heal, use abilities, or move while in Mist form it will force him to either die or come out.

 

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Kalil Chernov
Kalil Chernov
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Reply #10 April 19, 2009 10:36:33 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Quoting ViridShaman,
reply 9
Regulus can toss mines into the mist and it will in fact damage Erebus while in Mist form. Oak's AoE will affect Erebus as well. Torchbearer can bring him out by casting Circle of Fire, Fire Nova, and Rain of Ice. Just because he's in Mist form doesn't mean he is invernable. There is a reason why Bloody Haze increases his evasion by 10% while in Mist form. Since he can't heal, use abilities, or move while in Mist form it will force him to either die or come out.
 
Ahh, so he's untargetable but not invincible?  That's an important distinction that I was unaware of.\

EDIT: Also, I thought the evasion from Bloody Haze was a general bonus that was active even while not in mist form.

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Kalil Chernov
ViridShaman
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Reply #11 April 19, 2009 10:51:00 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

You are indeed correct as to the +10% being a general increase despite being in mist form or not. Though the bonus is mainly to boost the usage of Mist form since your unable to move or act, but regardless it is useful when not in Mist form, but it seems like a waste of points to put all the way into mist to put a point into Bloody haze to not use Mist and just use the evasion increase part of it.

Don't worry when I first started Erebus and I was testing out various setups around Mist and I thought to believe that he was inverable while in this form, but a friend that I was testing with tossed mines into the mist for laughs and it did in fact damage Erebus. I tested Oak's AoE and Torchbearer's AoE as well during games against a Erebus in Mist form and it did in fact damage him and he came out and Bat swarmed away. 

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Kalil Chernov
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Reply #12 April 19, 2009 10:52:56 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

I just did the math.  You can hit an effective 125 MP/s with the Plate Visor, the Plenor Battlecrown, and the Hungarling's Crown.  That's 8600 gold, which is not exactly difficult to obtain.

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Kalil Chernov
Kalil Chernov
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Reply #13 April 20, 2009 12:39:15 AM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Quoting Kalil Chernov,
reply 12
I just did the math.  You can hit an effective 125 MP/s with the Plate Visor, the Plenor Battlecrown, and the Hungarling's Crown.  That's 8600 gold, which is not exactly difficult to obtain.
Correction: Hungerling cap doesn't appear to reduce the cost of Mist.  That makes it substantially more expensive to go infinite.

Plenor BattleCrown+Vlemish Faceguard+Vinling Helmet+Hungarling Crown+Magus Rod puts you very near 125 at level 10, and above it at level 15, but costs 16300 gold.  Any of the above can be dropped in favor of the Cloak of Flames, if you're really rich.

Note that this means that, unless you have several artifacts, all your equipment slots are going to be taken with mana gear.

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Kalil Chernov
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Reply #14 April 20, 2009 1:03:41 AM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Alright, a friend and I just tested Erebus vs Rook, Regulus, and TorchBearer, and none of their respective abilities were capable of injuring mistformed Erebus.  Although Regulus could plant mines that'd detonate as soon as I shifted out...

I'm guessing that may've gotten changed in one of the recent patches.

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Kalil Chernov
chaosbrynn
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Reply #15 April 20, 2009 2:26:04 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

My tests have found the same. In mist form, Erebus is invulnerable. Not just untargetable. The 10% dodge is added because 30/hpsec regen is not powerful enough to warrant being so far down the skill tree.

The current build Im testing/mastering is the Erebus MistMinion Build. Mist being my only power with everything else going into minions. You do require quite a bit of mana items to be in mist permanently, but you really dont need that. If you can mist for a minute which is easily doable, thats all you need most of the time. You would be suprised how quickly you can attain viable mistform if you spec for it. Recently Ive been trying out the Cloak of plentiful Mana. Very useful. Heart of life also comes in handy as you can activate and then mistform.

Point being I find Mist to be essential for a minion build. The fact that it can wipe out waves, which then create your minions all while you are invulnerable is essential to the minion strat.

Bating to the portal on crucible and misting is one of my favorite tactics. I can indeed be done in a normal game. It does not last infinitely, but it really screws with the oponents forcing decisions on them which they generaly have not made before and so dont know the optimum response. You just need to be sure that you leave enough Mana to bat out or have a teleport on you so you can GTFO when your mana runs dry.

 

Cheers,

Chaosbrynn

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Kalil Chernov
Sevenix
Join Date 04/2008
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Reply #16 April 20, 2009 4:28:05 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Too bad mist form supends all regeneration then or this would actually work.

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Kalil Chernov
nilsy007
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Reply #17 April 20, 2009 5:11:42 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

suspends HP regeneration not mana, enough items and you can sit in mist nonstop a permanent mist erebus is a weak option, a erebus using all the other skills is so much mre powerful in my experince.

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Kalil Chernov
Kalil Chernov
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Reply #18 April 21, 2009 1:18:08 AM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Quoting chaosbrynn,
reply 15
My tests have found the same. In mist form, Erebus is invulnerable. Not just untargetable. The 10% dodge is added because 30/hpsec regen is not powerful enough to warrant being so far down the skill tree.

The current build Im testing/mastering is the Erebus MistMinion Build. Mist being my only power with everything else going into minions. You do require quite a bit of mana items to be in mist permanently, but you really dont need that. If you can mist for a minute which is easily doable, thats all you need most of the time. You would be suprised how quickly you can attain viable mistform if you spec for it. Recently Ive been trying out the Cloak of plentiful Mana. Very useful. Heart of life also comes in handy as you can activate and then mistform.

Point being I find Mist to be essential for a minion build. The fact that it can wipe out waves, which then create your minions all while you are invulnerable is essential to the minion strat.

Bating to the portal on crucible and misting is one of my favorite tactics. I can indeed be done in a normal game. It does not last infinitely, but it really screws with the oponents forcing decisions on them which they generaly have not made before and so dont know the optimum response. You just need to be sure that you leave enough Mana to bat out or have a teleport on you so you can GTFO when your mana runs dry.

 

Cheers,

Chaosbrynn

Yah, I've played Erebus quite a bit more now, and I've come to the conclusion that mist/minons with mana regen gear is at least as effective a build as the more traditional bite-centric ones.  I usually also grab the health line for the life drain aura and then pump Morale.  Although the burst damage is quite low, Mist gives me a lot of ways to screw with the enemy.  Even a human player rarely knows how to handle an invincible Erebus.  They can be forced to choose between abandoning an 'easy' finish, or sitting around waiting for you to demist (meanwhile, Regulus can be lining up a snipe, of Beast could be porting in).

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Kalil Chernov
ViridShaman
Join Date 04/2009
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Reply #19 April 21, 2009 1:39:37 AM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

To be honest a more knowledgeable player would ignore Erebus during mist form. Regardless of a 'easy' finish it would be more much seneseable to just ignore him since there isn't much of a choice and begin to push onward applying pressure on him and his team. Despite Erebus locking out one of your waves. He is locking him team out on one Demigod and based on the players the team can steamroll into the base.

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Kalil Chernov
kstampy
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Reply #20 April 21, 2009 3:42:03 AM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

I don't think you can cap flags while in mist form meaning they could just harass you right back by playing with the flag. There are other Erebus strategys that are far beyond the power of going down the mist path. I pretty much use 1 point in mist for an oh shit button or to help me get that bite cooldown off while in a tight spot. The higher the level your mist is the more mana drain as well, meaning you waste your money on dumb mana regen items. You could be getting ashkandor and hungarlings and speed boots and raping demigods left and right while Bite is turned into merely a back up heal or snare instead of what is needed to keep me alive. Also any kind of interrupt combo like TB shatter + Sedna silence is gonna screw you over the moment you get out of mist form. If they don't then they are giving up a portal for 3v2 fighting, which is very risky and can cost you the game. Like others are saying, any human player can easily counter it.

But, to all their own. =]

 

Find some more neat tricks!

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