Heart of Life "nerf" idea

asthasr

Join Date 02/2008

Heart of Life "nerf" idea

Heart of Life as it stands is a brutal item. I use it on every demigod, even Sedna (who theoretically shouldn't need it that much). I have a relatively simple idea to make it more balanced: require that the user be near a friendly tower (of light/darkness). This can be visually justified by having the health stone "channel" energy through a chain of towers. This will make it more of a midgame item, since in the late game most towers are gone; it will make it harder to sustain pushes into enemy territory; and it will help balance the "HoL plus shield" tactic.

Locked Post +1 Karma

Advanced Search

Watch this post

Do not email me updates for this post Email me updates for this post

Successfully updated karma reason!

schinstad

Exactly. It wouldnt be a need-to-get item. I can see DECIDING to get the mana or health item, but not know from the start of the game I should get it because I know the enemy will.

Successfully updated karma reason!

As a Sedna player, the mana only one for cheaper would be very tempting. I think splitting the item into two separate ones would be beneficial. One solves mana problems, one solves health problems, rather than the universal solution it currently is. I tried out the wand of speed + hol combo last night and found it pretty ridiculous as an unclean beast, not only is the wand a fantastic item, its also really cheap, and once you get the heart later in the game you can be a real pain.

Successfully updated karma reason!

It's a portable base. You can go behind your tower, use it, and go back to battle.

Cooldown? Literaly, whenever you need it.

A.k.a overpowered, lame, game-breaking, must-have, zomfg... etc.

Best fix is to lower the amount it regenerates. By 75%.

Such a cheap item should be helpful, not dominant over all the other items combined and map possition.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Quoting Doggiedoodle,

reply 3

I wouldn't mind seeing the HoL nerfed. It's kind of a must buy/no brainer item atm and makes forcing a full out retreat next to impossible if you haven't got an oak or an erebus on your side to chase.

I have never used a Heart of Life in any of my matches, and I've always done fine. In fact, I have a pretty damn good win/loss ratio. Frankly, I don't think the item is as overpowered as people make it out to be. It's not game-breaking at all, although it does make it a bit too easy to retreat from a battle, heal yourself very quickly, and then get back into the fray without having to go all the way back to the Citadel. I think it could use a little toning-down, maybe a less powerful heal and higher cool-down (45s is the standard on most items after all) but that's it.

Successfully updated karma reason!

They could always change it to a favor item... then you would really have to decide if you want it over the other things

Successfully updated karma reason!

Quoting Sheezwack,

reply 5

They could always change it to a favor item... then you would really have to decide if you want it over the other things

LOL. It would see MORE use then

Successfully updated karma reason!

I think it needs the duration increased, take twice as long to heal the same amount or similar.

It is easy to abuse it, it's a very powerful item.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Quoting Gabbelgak,

reply 6

Quoting Sheezwack, reply 5They could always change it to a favor item... then you would really have to decide if you want it over the other things

LOL. It would see MORE use then

Probably not by experienced players, since you don't need the item later in the game, wheras other favor items are still useful.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Quoting Sheezwack,

reply 8

Quoting Gabbelgak,
reply 6

Quoting Sheezwack, reply 5They could always change it to a favor item... then you would really have to decide if you want it over the other things

LOL. It would see MORE use then

Probably not by experienced players, since you don't need the item later in the game, wheras other favor items are still useful.

The game would be over by then with those "experienced" players. They wouldn't get the chance to become uselss.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Quoting khemintiri,

reply 15

1 :channeling make it a channeling effect

2: raise price to 7250

3:raise the cd to 1 min

Any of these suggestions seem like they would fix it to me.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Only one of those suggestions would not turn this from a must-have item to a never-have item.

Successfully updated karma reason!

i think a channeling item would be okay, it's still useful. Just means you can't move while using it, so as opposed to a 'save your ass' item it's more of a 'don't need to go back to base' item. This would make it more balanced since not all DG's have a ranged attack to interrupt it.

Much of the time it's pretty useless when running from someone since you can't get hit with it.

Successfully updated karma reason!

it needs a major nerf

Successfully updated karma reason!

How about making the HoL carry only a fixed number of charges. The holder has to "top up" the charges by taking the heart back to the healing crystal in the base.

Successfully updated karma reason!

That might be a pain, personally i think the best nerf to it is making it a channeling item, so you have to stand still to use it.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Yeah that would work too. Also, any action, not just attacks, should disable the healing process.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Yeah it should behave like any other channeling spell, once you have casted it if you get hit it interrupts

Successfully updated karma reason!

ok i think this are the best solutions

1.chaneling item: no moving, no skills, atacked and interrupt.

2.make it a casting item it will heal u as far as u stay there casting it(that way u wont even be able to atak)(with long CD and low HP&Mana/sec) .

3.make it one for life and the other for mana both for around the 4k (cus theres the chance to have them both so the price must be high).

4.make other items that are alike in power.

5.raise CD and Health&Mana/sec

or just let it like that.

Successfully updated karma reason!

I'm assuming you mean either one of those nerfs and not all of them?

Successfully updated karma reason!

Quoting oscarmbp,

reply 18

ok i think this are the best solutions

1.chaneling item: no moving, no skills, atacked and interrupt.

2.make it a casting item it will heal u as far as u stay there casting it(that way u wont even be able to atak)(with long CD and low HP&Mana/sec) .

3.make it one for life and the other for mana both for around the 4k (cus theres the chance to have them both so the price must be high).

4.make other items that are alike in power.

5.raise CD and Health&Mana/sec

or just let it like that.

I like all these ideas. And make it actually only do 3k mana/hps. So far the highest I've seen it heal is 7k, but it goes so fast, I cant cast fast enough to get a good check on it.

As QoT I can shield twice in the time it is active and I can have no mana, cast when I have enough AND when the cooldown is up and still get to full mana (4k) and have it active still.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Forcing you to stand still for the duration would be a good solution. It retains it's power and usefulness, I would still purchase it on QoT/Torchbearer every time, but I wouldn't be able to get away with only purchasing HoL and no other items every game due the the highly increased risk of using it in combat.

I might not even abuse it on oak with that change. I'd have to play a few rounds though to determine that.

Successfully updated karma reason!

One issue is that it doesn't only heal 3k. It will go till you're full unless it's been fixed recently. That's fairly small.

I think maybe rather than nerfing it that teleport scrolls should just be buffed up a little. Maybe just drop their cooldown timer to 10 seconds. There is enough benefit to be had from the heart by saving you on consumable cost in the long run as well as the opportunity cost of not having to go back to the fountain.

The bigger maps are where it seems to be OP to me. You just get way more out of it than you have to put in for it. Scrolls, of course, see even more mileage on the bigger maps and they are basically the same situation. I think good scroll usage wins games. In that way, scrolls are an item you have to use if your opponent uses. The difference is that scrolls are slightly more situational (maybe that flag doesn't matter enough to cap it immediately) and you can spend 275 on a scroll instead of being locked into a 4000 purchase.

Successfully updated karma reason!

I would double the duration and cooldown. Channeling might be a good alternative though.

Successfully updated karma reason!

I don't find the HoL overpowered or anything but I do think that it takes away from gameplay. Why use potions when you can use HoL later. Why need sedna when you can have HoL?

Hypothetically take HoL out of the game. A ton more people would use teleport scrolls, potions, more helms and I think it would help gameplay by forcing players to use more items.

idk how to fix atm. maybe make HoL just take a LOT longer to regen instead of a few seconds. Maybe like 15/20. It would also stop people from complaining about the Oak using the HoL with shield.

Successfully updated karma reason!

HoL is unbalanced in the sense that it is worth purchasing more often then not; that's not exactly the same as being broken, because there is no innate priority that all items be equally useful (though it's often a worthwhile guideline as that maximizes the interesting choices a player can make).

It's basically an item that gives protection from attrition. Since attrition isn't actually a whole lot of fun, fun, and I don't actually LIKE having to warp back to town every three minutes, I'm totally comfortable with a simple item, easily attainable at midgame, doing away with that inconvenience. I might slow the speed to 15 seconds and buff some of the other active items to make this a harder decision, but overall, I'd keep it near its current strength even if I DO take it on more games than not.

Successfully updated karma reason!