Demigod VS Dota » Forum Post by ravistbawm

1. Your character selection is very small. For this type of game, it really should be much larger or at least twice it's size so that it doesn't feel like it's bland after playing it for several days. It almost reminds me of the original Mortal Kombat or Street Fighter which is not a good thing since this is supposed to be something much better.

They are making more relax...

Your maps are nice but there is no map editor or any way I've seen to add additional maps. This can be very beneficial as players will spend the time to create nice maps and you guys don’t have to develop much (if anything after that as far as maps are concerned) because the map will poor in from the players.

They are making more, and have you seen the backdrops in these maps? Those may be hard for map editors but I don't know.

5. The updates you push through Impulse do not have any change logs. This gives players something to expect and to look for when they are playing so they can tell you when the changes that were made helped or hindered the game.

They always have the change log online, for every update. And if the person gets the update then they have the internet, so that's no biggy.

And one last thing:

This is NOT Defense of the Ancients! This is Demigod!!! Too many people expect this game to be like DOTA so stop comparing it. Sure they nabbed some inspiration from it, but Demigod is Demigod. Period.

-Phal

Successfully updated karma reason!

kryo

Join Date 05/2003

+458

because the map will poor in from the players.

Not so likely. The bulk of the map in demigod is one massive custom-built 3D model. It is not a tile-based system where anyone can easily make new maps--you'd actually need 3DSM or similar to more than just rearrange towers or walls on existing maps.

Successfully updated karma reason!

I've been playing the game for several days and I've found that this game is very similar to DOTA (a Warcraft 3 Frozen Throne map that was done by some very talented people, if you haven't tried it, you should to see how similar it really is: http://www.dota-allstars.com/). However, DOTA currently has more to offer than this game. Not to say this game couldn't easily out distance that map but there are some things that would need to change before that happens:

Really? its similar to DOTA? and DOTA is what? oh thanks for letting us know, ill make sure to tell everyone....

1. Your character selection is very small. For this type of game, it really should be much larger or at least twice it's size so that it doesn't feel like it's bland after playing it for several days. It almost reminds me of the original Mortal Kombat or Street Fighter which is not a good thing since this is supposed to be something much better.

new demigods are on their way. i think DOTA has waaaaay too many heroes, it takes away from the game, and makes it daunting to get into. SF2 is one of the greatest fighting games ever, i dont know what you're getting at here. I think other people have said it here many times before: low number of units does not equal low depth. Think of chess as an example, 6 units, and still going strong.

2. Your maps are nice but there is no map editor or any way I've seen to add additional maps. This can be very beneficial as players will spend the time to create nice maps and you guys don’t have to develop much (if anything after that as far as maps are concerned) because the map will poor in from the players.

the maps are awesome. a map editor would be great i agree. I dont know how this is even one of your points when a couple lines ago you say " However, DOTA currently has more to offer than this game." DOTA is 1 map...

3. The money system can be an issue since the players are focused to kill other demigods. Any demigod who lacks abilities (or just the players themselves) to kill other players will easily fall behind. Because of this, the mobs (or creeps, which ever you prefer) should give a little more money and some should be taken off of killing a demigod reward to balance it out.

meh matter of preference here, thats just the way the game is

4. Any units your characters create should be given a little more focused control than just 3 buttons on the left side. This almost makes the units obsolete and a waste of time without the demigod (which is fine in some cases but shouldn’t be the only type of strategy a player can use especially if this is supposed to resemble a strategy game.)

you can select your minions by type using both hotkeys and double clicking on them. so you can lets say attack with your demigod down one lane, send your 2 seige archers to attack a tower somewhere else on the map and send your priests to the where your creeps are to heal them. Is that the control you're talking about? l2p

5. The updates you push through Impulse do not have any change logs. This gives players something to expect and to look for when they are playing so they can tell you when the changes that were made helped or hindered the game.

i agree

Successfully updated karma reason!

Quoting kryo,

reply 2

because the map will poor in from the players.

Not so likely. The bulk of the map in demigod is one massive custom-built 3D model. It is not a tile-based system where anyone can easily make new maps--you'd actually need 3DSM or similar to more than just rearrange towers or walls on existing maps.

Which, while the maps are beautiful, is unfortunate because the community could probably do a better job of building maps for a game of this type than the developers ever could. While I don't doubt their skill and talent, there is a lot of creativity out there that would love to jump on something like this. But few developers are concerned with things like map editors, at least on release. Starcraft II will have one of course, but Blizzard games always have and they have enough money now to keep that tradition alive even as their games get more complex.

The truth is that while the detail and effort that went into the elaborate backgrounds and stages for the game is impressive, nobody is going to care much about it a month from now....and would probably be wishing it was based on a tile system so that there could be a map editor.

Who knows, maybe if the game takes off enough we could still see one someday. Though I guess I should also say that I do not think it is that important. It just would have been better. Strong DLC support and perhaps a little more diversity in future maps could easily make up for the lack of an editor.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Hey guys, i've been following Demigod and intend to buy it once i see some interesting dlc coming in (heroes/maps or other stuff)

I've also tested it and the only things i found it needed some attention were the items (major attention here) and heroes (needs bigger diversity)

1)These kinds of games, though, benefit GREATLY from official existing map editors and stuff. I don't find it impossible to create, after all you could just have premade bottoms and backgrounds and let the users just work on the tiles and structure placement.

2)Items need a lot of attention. They feel too generic and don't really do that many stuff. A game as big as this should have a huge diversity of items. The artifact shop idea combined with the tower is great but the rewards are mediocre. It would be great if you could add recipes or some more shops you can open in specific ways (by player kills or something) that contain items with much more precise abilities than +str. Invisibility, spawn a wave of creeps beside you, bonus damage vs structures, Percentage of immunity + speed to flee, anything fun you can imagine. It doesn't have to be all heroes' items make more hero specific items.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Quoting kryo,

reply 2

because the map will poor in from the players.
Not so likely. The bulk of the map in demigod is one massive custom-built 3D model. It is not a tile-based system where anyone can easily make new maps--you'd actually need 3DSM or similar to more than just rearrange towers or walls on existing maps.

You almost say it like it is a good thing...

No map editor "ever" sucks a lot for modders.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Quoting Phalnax811,

reply 1

1. Your character selection is very small. For this type of game, it really should be much larger or at least twice it's size so that it doesn't feel like it's bland after playing it for several days. It almost reminds me of the original Mortal Kombat or Street Fighter which is not a good thing since this is supposed to be something much better.

They are making more relax...

Your maps are nice but there is no map editor or any way I've seen to add additional maps. This can be very beneficial as players will spend the time to create nice maps and you guys don’t have to develop much (if anything after that as far as maps are concerned) because the map will poor in from the players.

They are making more, and have you seen the backdrops in these maps? Those may be hard for map editors but I don't know.

5. The updates you push through Impulse do not have any change logs. This gives players something to expect and to look for when they are playing so they can tell you when the changes that were made helped or hindered the game.

They always have the change log online, for every update. And if the person gets the update then they have the internet, so that's no biggy.

And one last thing:

This is NOT Defense of the Ancients! This is Demigod!!! Too many people expect this game to be like DOTA so stop comparing it. Sure they nabbed some inspiration from it, but Demigod is Demigod. Period.

-Phal

I never said it was and I know they are working hard to make the game the best it can. I was just giving ideas that I thought I had seen worked better. Nothing more.

Quoting kryo,

reply 2

because the map will poor in from the players.

Not so likely. The bulk of the map in demigod is one massive custom-built 3D model. It is not a tile-based system where anyone can easily make new maps--you'd actually need 3DSM or similar to more than just rearrange towers or walls on existing maps.

I agree. The quality of the maps would be difficult to compete with in how they set it up. However, I've seen some other games (Supreme Commander for example) where they made a map that was so great that I wondered if they didn't have more fun making the map (I'm sorry, I forgot what the maps name was but it was a snow covered hilly enviroment (for 4 players I believe) if you want to look) than actually playing on it. It was that detailed and polished. Now I'm not saying that's going to happen but if they at least provide the tool then I would think someone would be willing to give it a try to see how much fun with it they could have.

To everyone else, you all have good points. But this is the ideas board and I was showing them what I thought they could look at and give some examples of a system I've seen work great (very annoying at times but still great). This was in no way to bash the game but to help expand on it.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Tested it...omg

dude, i've played 2 characters a lot and I've yet to have one match be anywhere near similar to the previous one. 1 or 2 changes in the build, and you have an entirely different strategy to go on. The diversity is there, you just have to get to know the characters. Did you even phathom the favor items at all?

Successfully updated karma reason!

Quoting Ultroman,

reply 8

Tested it...omg

dude, i've played 2 characters a lot and I've yet to have one match be anywhere near similar to the previous one. 1 or 2 changes in the build, and you have an entirely different strategy to go on. The diversity is there, you just have to get to know the characters. Did you even phathom the favor items at all?

Yep. I did. And I constantly try different combinations for kicks. I do have to say, the rook with the ability to teleport (sorry I don’t remember what the name is but it’s on the right side and about halfway down (I think 4 or 5 from the top)) is pretty awesome but I'm just looking for a more of a verity of demigods to choose from. That’s all. I mean, don’t get me wrong, there is diversity but I would like to play on a map where I don’t have the same demigod on it twice. That mixes the pot a lot more than having maps that has at least 1 of the same character a minimum of 2 times when you maximize both teams.

Successfully updated karma reason!

wow dont rant the guy down man ...

1: maps are hard to make:

trust me map dudes are pretty much insane when doing details , sure we would miss out on some background looks pherhaps , but the best maps usually come from map makers

2: there are enough heroes:

wow its not even close to enough heroes , 15-20 and i would agree , its a good start .

the 8 there are are all very wellmade , and sure theres alot of ways to go about them , but in 1-2 weeks i will have tried all the "not so good" skills and decided what i should go for ... in almost every game with minor changes on the game, same goes with items .

and to rant a bit more some items are just plain bad (1% chance for 300 absorb shield ... just one example of an effect i wouldnt even bother to buy at lvl 1) , some items are just too good ( 3000 mana/hp regen over 10 secs every 30 secs usable while moving for ... 4250 not buying it is a sin).

and subtlesalmon ... dota has to many heroes ? thats just absurb ... dota does not have to many heroes , and the playable list is even less , sure getting into dota might be a bit harsh , but i think alot of players just like the diversity ... were gamers , gamers like more weapons , cooler bazookas , more deadly characters and things that make you think wow ,... thats just awesome ( yes i play rook from time to time just to hear the Boom when he hits the towers )

anyways just to point out i love the game and im already hoping for semiweekly or monthly updates with maps/heroes/items and a balance patch a week after

Successfully updated karma reason!

Oh god how I wish this came with a map editor. SOOO many people would dive right into that. Please take in consideration other game modes line castle defense, hero line wars, tower defense, arena, etc. Sooo many possibilities to grow on! This could be the next generation 'dota' hope you guys make it good!

Successfully updated karma reason!

Quoting kryo,

reply 2

because the map will poor in from the players.
Not so likely. The bulk of the map in demigod is one massive custom-built 3D model. It is not a tile-based system where anyone can easily make new maps--you'd actually need 3DSM or similar to more than just rearrange towers or walls on existing maps.

Have you heard of these games called "Quake", "Unreal Tournament", and "Half Life"?

Successfully updated karma reason!

1. Your character selection is very small. For this type of game, it really should be much larger or at least twice it's size so that it doesn't feel like it's bland after playing it for several days. It almost reminds me of the original Mortal Kombat or Street Fighter which is not a good thing since this is supposed to be something much better.

Using your 'logic' I can say that Starcraft is boring and sucks compared to Total Annihilation just because it has less units.

Successfully updated karma reason!

and subtlesalmon ... dota has to many heroes ? thats just absurb ... dota does not have to many heroes , and the playable list is even less , sure getting into dota might be a bit harsh , but i think alot of players just like the diversity ... were gamers , gamers like more weapons , cooler bazookas , more deadly characters and things that make you think wow ,... thats just awesome ( yes i play rook from time to time just to hear the Boom when he hits the towers )

i dont think its absurd at all. I would rather have a smaller amount of really well designed heros like demigod has than 90 some odd vanilla heros who share many skills and nobody cares about. You just said it yourself, "the playable list is even less" if they are BS heros that arent even playable, then why does the game have them? come on...

I would bet that 50 heroes can be easily cut from DOTA and nobody would give a shit...

Successfully updated karma reason!

Quoting TravCarp,

reply 11

Oh god how I wish this came with a map editor. SOOO many people would dive right into that. Please take in consideration other game modes line castle defense, hero line wars, tower defense, arena, etc. Sooo many possibilities to grow on! This could be the next generation 'dota' hope you guys make it good!

1. I'm assuming that choosing to make the maps as the DEVS chose to do it, wasn't only about beautiful looks but also to minimize the opportunity for exploits?

2. Sure new game-modes would be fun....and who says that's not going to happen down the road?

3. Many of us in fact DON'T want another/new DOTA. The DOTA-community can keep their eliteist game, I enjoy this game as it is thank you, it is very WELL-made!

Successfully updated karma reason!

Quoting kryo,

reply 2

because the map will poor in from the players.
Not so likely. The bulk of the map in demigod is one massive custom-built 3D model. It is not a tile-based system where anyone can easily make new maps--you'd actually need 3DSM or similar to more than just rearrange towers or walls on existing maps.

A lot of Modders are actually players from other studios or students in the game sector. Never underestimate the community in a game

Successfully updated karma reason!

I'm just going to quote the original post, and some other interesting quotes I found, because I don't feel like reading everything.

So yeah, demigod can have some of the mechanics of dota, but it doesn't have to be exactly like it...It has a lot of flexible elbow room to be it's own unique game, while still hinting a flavor of dota in the after-taste.

1. Your character selection is very small. For this type of game, it really should be much larger or at least twice it's size so that it doesn't feel like it's bland after playing it for several days. It almost reminds me of the original Mortal Kombat or Street Fighter which is not a good thing since this is supposed to be something much better.

The character selection for demigod doesn't have to be as big as dota's. For one, the heroes in dota are VERY linear, and have very few ways they can be played, because they only have a few skills that all get leveled up to max in the end. The only thing that defines their gameplay is gear. Demigods on the other hand, are VERY, VERY versatile. Every demigod can be played in many different ways, have much more skills to invest in, and at the final level do NOT get every single skill for the same exact hero build each and every single game. However, the gear in demigod is a little bit lacking, and doesn't have nearly the effect that gear in dota has. Still though, Demigod can afford to have less classes when the classes are already many times more in-depth than dota heroes ever will be.

2. Your maps are nice but there is no map editor or any way I've seen to add additional maps. This can be very beneficial as players will spend the time to create nice maps and you guys don’t have to develop much (if anything after that as far as maps are concerned) because the map will poor in from the players.

Well you're comparing dota to demigod, and dota has one map, so...I'm not sure how you can complain it needs more maps. I wouldn't disagree, more maps are nice, but their current maps need a-LOT of work. In the opposite respect of my previous argument, the dota map is VERY in-depth and detailed, where the demigod maps are just a path with fancy backrounds, and almost NOTHING that supplements gameplay other than a few winding paths.

3. The money system can be an issue since the players are focused to kill other demigods. Any demigod who lacks abilities (or just the players themselves) to kill other players will easily fall behind. Because of this, the mobs (or creeps, which ever you prefer) should give a little more money and some should be taken off of killing a demigod reward to balance it out.

Uh...Okay. If one team sucks, and the other doesn't, THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO FALL BEHIND. What are you going to do, give them 2,000 gold every time they die so they don't ever fall behind? Hold their hand while they cross the street too. Breast feed them every meal, and wipe their ass for them.

Aside from my rant, I whole-heartedly agree that the beginning creeps need to reward much, MUCH more gold. When two stalemated teams collide and can't force a kill out of eachother, the game flows EXTREMELY slow.

2)Items need a lot of attention. They feel too generic and don't really do that many stuff. A game as big as this should have a huge diversity of items. The artifact shop idea combined with the tower is great but the rewards are mediocre. It would be great if you could add recipes or some more shops you can open in specific ways (by player kills or something) that contain items with much more precise abilities than +str. Invisibility, spawn a wave of creeps beside you, bonus damage vs structures, Percentage of immunity + speed to flee, anything fun you can imagine. It doesn't have to be all heroes' items make more hero specific items.

Yes. This = /thread.

The DOTA-community can keep their eliteist game

Aw man, I can't wait to play you ingame.

Successfully updated karma reason!

I hope they find a healthy balance with the number of heroes. I'm actually rather satisfied with 8 heroes and wouldn't want to see more than 20 heroes, but rather a smaller number of better fleshed out heroes so encountering the same hero twice wouldn't be the same.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Quoting SubtleSalmon,

reply 14

and subtlesalmon ... dota has to many heroes ? thats just absurb ... dota does not have to many heroes , and the playable list is even less , sure getting into dota might be a bit harsh , but i think alot of players just like the diversity ... were gamers , gamers like more weapons , cooler bazookas , more deadly characters and things that make you think wow ,... thats just awesome ( yes i play rook from time to time just to hear the Boom when he hits the towers )

i dont think its absurd at all. I would rather have a smaller amount of really well designed heros like demigod has than 90 some odd vanilla heros who share many skills and nobody cares about. You just said it yourself, "the playable list is even less" if they are BS heros that arent even playable, then why does the game have them? come on...

I would bet that 50 heroes can be easily cut from DOTA and nobody would give a shit...

Dota has NO vanilla heroes ...No heroes have the same skillz and is played the same ? , just because targeted stun and damage is one skill it does not mean its used in the same way , and there are updates and nerf/buffs coming all the time switching around the playable list and gameplay.

You could not cut 5 heroes even without people taking offence cause all players have their favorite hero , pubs play different from league based games who play different from pro games .

and they all use different heros different strats .

the playable list in pro games for proffesional players are at 20-25 heroes in A rank , another 15-20 in b rank and then about

25 heroes in C rank which means theyre very situational ... then you have some heroes that instead are very played in pubs and the likes .

the 8 demigods in this game is very well made ... but its not gonna be enough in the long run , theyre gonna need more and it cant take 4 months between each patch

Successfully updated karma reason!

Quoting Unknown924,

reply 13

1. Your character selection is very small. For this type of game, it really should be much larger or at least twice it's size so that it doesn't feel like it's bland after playing it for several days. It almost reminds me of the original Mortal Kombat or Street Fighter which is not a good thing since this is supposed to be something much better.

Using your 'logic' I can say that Starcraft is boring and sucks compared to Total Annihilation just because it has less units.

plz note how this is not a standard rts and you dont manage your macro/micro as much , starcraft is superior to the game made with a lot of different pros/cons to each unit and a huge amount of strats applied to each race ... its also superior due to player skill having more of a say in the game ... and after all this 2 more races in starcraft that was balanced would have made it into an even better game

Successfully updated karma reason!

Quoting Extacide,

reply 17

The character selection for demigod doesn't have to be as big as dota's. For one, the heroes in dota are VERY linear, and have very few ways they can be played, because they only have a few skills that all get leveled up to max in the end. The only thing that defines their gameplay is gear. Demigods on the other hand, are VERY, VERY versatile. Every demigod can be played in many different ways, have much more skills to invest in, and at the final level do NOT get every single skill for the same exact hero build each and every single game. However, the gear in demigod is a little bit lacking, and doesn't have nearly the effect that gear in dota has. Still though, Demigod can afford to have less classes when the classes are already many times more in-depth than dota heroes ever will be.

well you know that in 2 weeks everyone will have 1-2 skill builds of every hero right ? , might have a third vs certain matchups , then the "indepth" selection will be just as dota 1-2 different skill builds and a third vs certain matchups .

but i get your point ... although 8 demigods as keep on ranting on will not be enough in a few months time 1-2 new heroes every month until they reach 20 would be a nice goal.

Successfully updated karma reason!

the 8 demigods in this game is very well made ... but its not gonna be enough in the long run , theyre gonna need more and it cant take 4 months between each patch

That doesn't change the fact that dota heroes are just a pot of linear heroes who were only designed for one real purpose without much flexibility in their play style. Demigod could very well go on with just 8, it's only you who would rather see more, and are delusional that it needs more. Despite that, there will inevitably be more demigods anyways. So yeah.

Also, theres an edit function, you don't need to reply five times; Please use it. Also, run-on sentences are difficult to follow because they're really long and carry on multiple ideas without any track of thought and I can't quite put together what it is you're trying to say because in your run-on sentences your points are all over the place and not condensed into comprehensible single thoughts and and and. Proper use of paragraphs and formatting wouldn't hurt. More dots please? ......................... I'd prefer less dots. ............................ Okay????? ........................ LOLOL...........................................

I'm not going to lie, your posts are a pain to read. I don't really feel like reading them anymore.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Hey, gimme back those punctuation marks, I was looking for them!

Successfully updated karma reason!

I see kids that post that don’t know what they are talking about, and others you can tell they know a thing or 2. But this is the true story.

Demigod NEEDS more heroes. That’s it end of story flat out. ( 1 reason, I want to play multi player without seeing the same demigods game after game. It makes it 2 easy and reppitive I want to use my brain to know how I must counter each unique team of unique hero choices. )

Demigod NEEDS more items + recopies (:suggestion: items unlocked by rep or EXP ) but they at least need more items to give experienced players a better chance due to them understanding builds. And counter builds. Both in talents and items.

Demigod NEEDS To better record how much money is given per a creep kill.

ALSO balance out creep kill $$ VS hero kill $$. To give different hero classes good at creeps, but not killing demigods a fighting chance to win a match.

Demigod NEEDS a map editor. BUT!!! For online play and rankings only official maps should be used to stop cheating.

If you find a way to take these good things from WC3/DOTA and make them Demigod unique you will have a better game than DOTA. And if you can do that. The thousands of kids that play dota will move over and you will make a TUN of money!

That is all

Successfully updated karma reason!

plz note how this is not a standard rts and you dont manage your macro/micro as much , starcraft is superior to the game made with a lot of different pros/cons to each unit and a huge amount of strats applied to each race ... its also superior due to player skill having more of a say in the game ... and after all this 2 more races in starcraft that was balanced would have made it into an even better game

Not relevant to what I said

Your character selection is very small. For this type of game, it really should be much larger or at least twice it's size so that it doesn't feel like it's bland after playing it for several days.

This statement says is that the number of Demigods is what you have a problem with. It did not say anything about the variety of ways to use each Demigod, but instead that they would be boring to use because of the small number of them. The entire argument in that statement is more = better, less = worse and boring.

Starcraft has around 84 units, Total Annihilation has around 250.

Using the more = better, less = worse and boring 'logic' gets the following:

Starcraft gets boring after playing it for several days because it only has around a third of the units Total Annihilation has. Starcraft needs over 160 units to prevent it from being a bland game.

My entire argument was that using the same logic in the statement results in Total Annihilation being better just because it has more units. I am disproving the statement that Demigod can't be a good game unless more units are added.

Successfully updated karma reason!