try going with penitence, raise dead and soul power. soul power with raise dead is alot of dmg.

as u have the 2 raise dead with 2 soul power u will already do enough dmg to harras a demigod and kill him.

as u go into battle, cast raise dead, penitence, than choose all and attack the demigod, if he runs away cast penitence to slow him and catch him with boots of speed and maybe ankle.

divine justice is not that immportant unless u creep alot, but u say u want to kill demigods, so its less usefull. take it between the the 3 immportant skills so u can maintain your ghost alive.

as with surge of faith, again it is very good for creep but less aginst demigods, so take it if u see you have some time alone with creeps, take it, than use it after raise dead.

items-

I would take boots of speed and later the halm(s) of mana, other than that mabe an armor/hp item and others are citidel upgrades.

hope this helps

*btw- I know my english sux so be cool  

Well lets see what we can do. The person I play with most plays Oak and he doesnt have any sort of trouble killing DG's. Maybe I can impart some of his success on you.

Ok I see things going badly already. Universal Gadget should not be bought early game. Heals Less then a potion, costs twice as much and has a longer cooldown. If you were to buy 2 potions instead you would get twice the life healed and be packing enough health to chase for a kill against a slower demigod. Personally Id go without either and invest in another item such as a helm or gauntlets for more mana/damage. Hell even a teleport scroll would be better as you would get to a flag, cap it and get to a wave before the waves meet. This means you end up level 2 before half the enemy wave has died, put your point in, gain some life from the rest of the wave and when it is dead, go find another flag to cap. Doing this will have you at level 3 during the 2nd wave. BIG difference at the beginning of the game. Capping flags in levels 1-4 is the best way to get EXP early game. If you go the 2 potion route, you should be the one staying in the lane while your oponent backs out to the crystal or safe tower range. Point being your gimping your start by taking the gadget. Its just too expensive for what it does (nice that it has 2 uses, unfortunately, the cost is WAY too expensive for either one or the other. The other thing you can do to help your beginning game is click teh shop as the screen is spinning in, buy your item and start walking immediately. Choose your skill and favor item on the way. My friend usually starts with penitence as it is ranged (easy harassing) offers a ministun, which is incredibly useful, but just needs practice and more importantly a debuff. The penitence debuff is INCREDIBLY important when you and a team mate try and focus a DG. It also changes the field of battle for you as your oponent is slower and takes more damage. I would start with that one if I were you.

Nothing wrong with what your doing here. Only problem is it is late. You should have this up and running very quickly. In most instances before the first wave dies or at the very least before the second wave gets there. The mana gain from this will be dumped into penitence for more harassing. Ranged harassing REALLY makes a big difference early on.



My friend skips out on the minions completely so I do not have anything for you here. All I can say is be sure to use the M key to select all your spirits and TELL THEM to attack an enemy demigod. Not only do they contribute a little damage and hence harassment to the enemy DG, they are annoying as hell due to their flying nature. They cause misclicks for the enemy and causes frustration. 

If you were following what I mentioned you would get another level of penitence here. Its a very good and important ability and as I write this I believe it to be the main reason you are having so much difficulty (aside from gimping yourself with a terribly buy and strat based on it at the beginning).

I would keep this the same. As you mentioned it comboing with Diving Justice really helps your staying power and kililng a wave at a time is good for both XP and Gold. I think penitence over shield when it comes to thyis point will make DG's much easier on you. No one likes being eranged harassed. If all someone has to worry about when they come at you is you shielding yourself, well, there is no reason not to try and yuo end up getting harrassed to hell. If they are being nuked/debuffed every time they harass you well, its a different story.

Your doing this right. At this point you run in, Penitence the enemy DG, AoE the wave and attack the DG. When penitence cools down, hit them with it again. Watching everything around them dying while having their speed debuffed, you healing and still doing more damage to them will normally signal that they should GTFO. even if it isnt true. I believe one of your problems is that your enemies arent afraid of you. Taking defensive over offensive skills does tend to do this. At this point you should be winning most confrontations. You will heal as will your wave when you oE the enemy. Enemy DG is debuffed + being harrased and you and your wave are wailing on him. At this point, if they run and you cant easilly make the kill, let the creep wave follow and go hit another creep wave in another lane and do the same tactic. Its great for gold, xp and harassment.

Again I have little to say about the minions as I have very limited expereince with his. You are doing one thing right however. Shield + HoL is an AMAZING combo which you have figured out. Due to this tactic and Oaks pretty decent base Health and Armor, you shouldnt need to spend hard earned money on defense items. You should of course be doing the same as the last bracket. Into a lane, whiope out the creep wave (gain health mana) and harass enemy DG with creep wave and penitence untill they turn around and run, head to another lane and repeat. You will start getting kills and assists at this point as your teamates are now getting powerful and betwene them and your penitence you will suprise quite a few people.



Well this will change quite a bit. With Shield + Heart and Divine Justice you have all the staying power you should need. Your other investments should all be made in offense. Penitence has a great movement speed debuff as well as a damage multiplier debuff. Im sure you see how those 2 effects dircetly counter your 2 problems. Point being, enemy DG's should be much easier as you do more damage to them, and they are slowed.



I agree with your choises there as well as your reasoning.



Well, I think we can concure this will solve a majority of your problem.



Vlemish is a great buy. Best mana to gold ratio you can get. Hopefully once you have the Heart you sell this as with Hearth + Divine Justice you should have no problem keeping your mana full. Early game though you just cant beat it for effectiveness. Speed upgrades are integral for melee characters if you want to kill demigods. While a ranged character just needs to be as fast or, sometimes just a tad bit slower then the target to net a kill, a melee DG needs to be faster so they are constantly within range of the enemy. When you combine something easy like boots of speed with the speed debuff from penitence, you should have no problem keeping up with and hence killing enemy DG's. Hauberk of life is indeed a good item. Not great, but good. However, with shield + heart, divine justice and penitence (hit them with it and THEN run, they wont catch you) you shouldnt need it to survive. Unbreakable boots are really not necessary. Neither is the platemail. If you get up to that gold amount, do yourself a favor, wait the 2 minutes and get the mageslayer. The life drain will add far more to your survivability then the platemail will and will cause you to be FAR deadlier against everything.



Thats a shame. Search the forums for the fix for it. You can apparently open a file in an editor like notepad and just change your favor points total. I havnt had this issue myself so I cant coment. Really too bad though as they open up a lot of possibilities and strateguies that arent otherwise available.



Your endgame is very dependant on how you pick your skill and spend your money. Youve shown that you tend to spend bopth points and skills defensively. This, needless to say, makes you a more defensive acharacter and not much for offing enemy DG's. If we change your focus, your killing potential will change as well. The ministun on penitence really is the least of its effects. Yes you can use it to interrupt skills and when you get very good at the game and can see thyenm coming, this will indeed happen. More importantly it stops teleports. However, the harassing damage and the debuff is the real shinning point of the skill.



Well hopefully Ive given you enough to think about and try that you can find out what has been going wrong for you. I truly believe that a large part of your difficulty was the fact that your start was being gimped by the gadget and not having penitence. Switch it up and see what it gets you. Ive just been able to illustrate how my friend plays Oak and he does pretty well with it.

Hope it helps!

Chaos 

Chaos: Thanks, I get the gist of it, quote tree aside. I will start picking up Penitence first! I alway have trouble using it to interrupt abilities just because so many characters have such little windup, but I completely forgot/ignored the other benefits. Opening with it sounds like a good idea. Will have to test when I get home later.

Also, good call on Mage Slayer. I never really looked at the Artifact shop because I didn't put up enough gold to warrant it, but if I can nail a few DGs I will definitely be changing that.

 

Re: the Favor thing, I've edited the file, but it still doesn't seem to work, so I'm resolved to working without for now. If I can get it working, anklet's probably the best bet, right?

Much better Chaos.  I had to step away during my attempt to read your first posting

I also skip out on Raise Dead Ward unless it is end game and I need something to take.  I find that Penitence/Shield/Divine Justice/Soul Power are all I need to make a very powerful Oak.  Surge of Faith comes in handy as well at later levels, especially for weakening a mob surrounding a DG. 

I'll have to look closer at the second page of focus items.  I really like the circlet/boots combo for maneuverability right now (when my favor is working...)  I start out with scale helm/chest for the stat boost and make a run right for a flag/lane.  Penitence usually lets me keep the spot a little longer for xp before I have to head back.  After that I go for teleport scrollsx2 and keep up the flag capping/creep killing while I quickly gain levels.  I don't stick around too long if multiple DG's hit an area as my goal is to level up and gain gold.  I'll pick up the building regen and damage upgrades quickly as well - and the gold upgrade as soon as it's available.

The key here is don't get greedy.  Fall back when a DG approaches your flag spot, then back in with penitence so they are at the flag instead of approaching it.  Get in and melee but don't follow far unless they have overextended themselves.  I'll take a tower hit or two if I KNOW I will drop him...  but generally I don't go near them as I can just retreat to killing creeps again.  It's a waiting game where you are looking for their first mistake.  Except whle you wait you are gaining xp and gold. 

 

There are at least 2 ways to play Oak and a 3rd one which is a bit hybrid.

You can go assassin style build with shield, penitence and soul power as main skills.

You can go full minion build with raise ward, divine justice, soul power and once your army is big, bottom skill enhancing minions.

And finally you can do a mix raise ward & penitence, couple of others here and there.

Surge of Faith in all builds is a must though.

 

Don't know how to embed a picture on this board. So here is the link.

 

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/CiAkaVRZ3a4kXCU3U4DLtA?authkey=Gv1sRgCLOwjOSo8Iej2AE&feat=directlink

I can't believe how strong oak is mid to end game. UNKILLABLE is right. Especially if you shield and run away when your little spirits die from my hammer slam, and then get more because you placed a flag right before you left. Then come back and hit us for 500 damage with ridiculous attack speed. It must be really hard to balance end game because, jesus.

Well Im glad its working out for you. You definately seem more pleased with the performance. Unfortunately there is no way for a acharacter to do it all (aside from being fed and getting rediculous amounts of items).

Penitence itself wont get you a kill, it is a kill enabler. Small amount of immediate damage and slow/increased damage to help with the kill. 

All the tactics you mentioned having difficulty with are spot on. Each of those require specific tactics to defeat. You have changed your build and play style so the difficulties you will have will be different.

There is unfortunately no way to do it all.

The point of a build that can kill demigods and harass early on is to end the game before it gets to a point where endgame builds become too powerful. On some maps, this is very difficult as they are so large but on most of them, if your doing the job you built your character for well, it should end before late game  builds really come into effect. That or your team gets to the late game builds while your oponents havent and the game ends anyways.

1. Penitence

2. Mana/Life attack

3. Soul Power

4. Penitence

5. Surge of Faith

6. Soul Power

7. Penitence

8. Shield

I dont use raise dead cuz they are too weak and you have to micro them. When playing Oak as a DPS class, I try to avoid too much macroing on minions so hence the reason of not having minion. I get shield a bit later because if you playing defensive and you got healer in the beginning, I dont think a shield is needed. I would sacrifice for more attacking power to kill creeps.

I... Thank you.

I posted this originally on Qt3, so there may be some parts of it that are answering to questions or comments I saw there, but hopefully not

This is my current Oak Build, but I am still playing with Items (especially artifacts; I hadn't realized Mageslayer was so darned cheap!).  I typically do the immediate flag cap -> wave kill = level 2-3 open, and basically spend my early levels killing off mid-range players who don't know to retreat and leveling off of grunt-kills.  As I hit level 5-7 or so, my skills start to synergize enough to become a real assassin-level character, and spend most of the rest of the game killing off lone Demigods, clearing creep waves out, and pushing through enemy towers to capture their portals ASAP.

For my Oakiness, modified for a more Assassiny build (now that I've been playing awhile longer):

Level 1, Spirit Ward (spirits from dead enemies), Minotaur totem, heal potion, and 1st level armor. Favor item: 450pt speedy boots.
Spawn the 'taurs, grab a flag, and then kill baddies w/ flag in place till you level.

I take Penitence (direct damage), then Soul Power (+atk, +more from spirits), then Penitence 2, and finally Surge of Faith (AoE damage) on the 5th level.

As soon as I pull 1K gold (usually after killing a level 1 enemy hero right after I hit 2 and get Penitence and still have my heal pot), I run back and grab the 1K speed boots.

At this point, I've got +25% movespeed, ~+100 atk, and whatever idols I've been able to afford. From there, it's a pretty steady progression, leveling up Penitence, Spirit Ward, Surge of Faith, and Soul Power, taking the kills=heal skill whenever I catch a leveling break.

I nab the +attack speed gloves (750 gold), 1500 gold +mana/regen hat (biggest single boost to my mana, which is handy), and the 1500 gold ring that procs a lightning strike to nearby enemies (that + surge of faith makes me a grunt-killing god) as soon as possible and fill in my missing idols.

By this point (usually ~level 6-7), I am able to stand toe-to-toe with any competently played demigod and have an above-average chance of taking him down before he gets me; I've scored the 25+ kills in one match achievement 3 times (since the achievement/favor code is broken and it doesn't save afterwards).

For the end-game, it's a matter of upgrading. I like to move into the 6750 gold gloves and boots (bigger speed bonuses, plus extras) and the 3000 gold armor, the duelist's cuirass. . . but given how many demigod kills I usually manage in a match, by level 15-16, I can usually afford the God Plate, along with my level 4 idols.

I max penitence and soul power first, then max out surge of faith and finally spirits (berserk can be insane). . . after that, I can nab the minion+ skill or extra healing, depending on how high up their defenses have gotten.

As it stands, straddling assassin/general like that and pulling in a ton of XP from mass-murdering grunts and tons of gold from Demigod kills, I've had what I feel to be an unprecedented amount of success.

As of last night, I'm the no. 5 Oak in the world and somewhere near the top 100 overall, AFAIK.

All of which goes to say: not only is Oak not underpowered, but he might well be overpowered at this point. A full boat of minions + spirits + items can set my oak over 600DPS, not even counting the nearly 20 doodz smacking all around me or my 800 damage penitence and 650 damage surge of faith AoE

Man, sorry for the mammoth Oak post, but I am absolutely flipping in LOVE with this guy.

It's kind of amazing to see the massive variance of Oak players.  I've found a ton of luck with nothing but Raise Dead, pest and soul power.  The build isn't strong until mid game when it really becomes a fun way to play.  I'll use siege minions early and get the priests later.  The key to early survival is shield - early kills come along with pestilence.

Generally Oak needs a bit of backup early game so run with your teammates until you can get your legs.  You'll be getting assists more than kills at first but will quickly flip that later in the game.

I think Oak is one of the few demigods that can have vastly different outcomes based on item selection.  If you are a Minion Oak, use those minion items for buffs and watch the difference on the battlefield. 

 

-AceQ