Darvin3

Join Date 12/2008

+177

Super-Fast Healing: What's doing it?

I was playing a 4v4 game with hard AI's last night. The teams were UB(me), Rook, QoT, Regulus vs Sedna, Oak, Torch, Erebus.

My allies were playing particularly poorly, feeding the other team regularly. I personally find the AI butchers Rook and QoT, playing them absolutely atrociously, but that's another story entirely. I managed to keep the kill count roughly even, despite Sedna's constant interference and the fact that the Oak had been fed with lots of kills from my allies. After one particularly nasty push where I caught each enemy demigod in succession and killed them all, we managed to get right up against their citadel and control the map before being pushed back. It was all downhill from there because the enemy demigods were regenerating health faster than I could damage them.

Now, I'd had troubles with Sedna all game. I just presumed with was still her causing some problems, but then it came down to the four of our team sitting around our healing crystal. Sedna comes running in alone and we all pounce on her: even as we stun her, maim her, and all four of us pounding on her, her health doesn't go down at all. She just stays at full health regenerating faster than we're damaging her.

What's going on here? I know my allies sucked this game (Rook was still level 19 an hour into the game ), but we had a full team beating on one demigod and couldn't even scratch it. I had the all-father ring and the really expensive axe (the one next to it in the artifact shop) that silences. I was using that on Sedna to shut down her healing.

Also, any general strategies for dealing with high level Oak/Sedna teams would be appreciated. I just couldn't do anything but run when those two were together.

Locked Post

Advanced Search

Watch this post

Do not email me updates for this post Email me updates for this post

Successfully updated karma reason!

Sedna's Healing Aura and Inner Grace plus any equipment she may have been wearing to increase her healing is probably what you were seeing. Add in priests from an idol and her own Heal ability and she can be very hard to defeat.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Especially if she gets the Bulkwark artifact for good armor and global damage reduction.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Sedna can easily get over 100 hp regen per sec. Combined with healing, good armor and life steal, chance of her dying is slim to none.

You need some big artifacts to kill her at that stage. (and she still can just run away, if she so desire to do so)

Basically, you just stack alot of evade and health regenerate items on your sedna and get those hp regen skills. Also get that skill after healing is maxed out, which give 50 hp regen when your hp is below 30%.

You literally can walk in and kill the citadel by yourself if you are way ahead of your opponent.

Of course, playing against human, this won't happen so easily.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Well I noticed you said you were near their citadel, was she close enough to their healing crystal to feel it's effects?

Successfully updated karma reason!

Well I noticed you said you were near their citadel, was she close enough to their healing crystal to feel it's effects?

No, that was earlier. They pushed us back. This was next to OUR crystal, so we had virtually infinite mana and health.

We're talking late game (I had discovered 20 minutes earlier that you can't own two All-Father Rings simultaneously, to give you an idea of how late we're talking), so pretty much name the equipment, she has it.

I was personally dishing out over 600 damage per hit, with over four hits per second, so hit point regeneration on its own doesn't satisfy me here. She'd have needed over 1800 hp/second regeneration just to cancel out my damage, forget about my teammates, spawns, and towers. Even dodge doesn't explain things here, because again even if she was avoiding three quarters of my damage she'd have needed 300 hp/second regeneration just to cancel out my attacks.

What I'm saying is that 100 hit points / second is negligable compared to what I'm observing. She was easily tanking over 4000 dps there, so even accounting for dodge and armour we're talking about nightmarish regeneration here. I just can't explain it, and I'm not satisfied by the explanations above.

On another note, I'm getting increasingly frustrated with the hard AI. It seems the AI's on the other team are a lot "harder" than the ones on your team. The kill/death of the game I just played:

Oak (me) 9/5 , Rook 5/14 , Sedna 2/15 , Erebus 0/19

Torch 16/3 , Regulus 12/8 , Beast 14/4 , QoT 5 / 4

I could just pass this off as a silly fluke if it happened once or twice (after all, once you start to get a bit of an equipment advantage, the kills just come easier and easier), but it's happening every game where I set the difficulties to hard. I know the AI's are careless and get themselves killed easily, but it seems overwhelmingly that the ones allied with a player do it more.

Successfully updated karma reason!

I said she can get to 100 easily. 100 is not her max. Her max is like 200~300+ I can't remember exactly.

I also said life steal, and that add on to the regen. You can get to more than 25% life steal per hit, and if she attack fast and hard, that's like another set of hundreds. Think 25% of a 2000 damage crit, 3 hits per sec.

Add on some insane evade, that's more than enough.

Now I don't know what was the scenario exactly so it is harder to tell, but generally life steal make anyone hard to kill and are generally the prime suspect.

Successfully updated karma reason!

This is where replays would be awesome

Successfully updated karma reason!

I had a skirmish game that was essentially this same thing. I was playing in a 4v4, my Sedna against a hard Sedna. I'm backed up against a crystal and fighting her, I've got her healers silenced, she's not casting heal spells, and she's not hitting me hard enough to live off of life steal, yet her life was jumping up hundreds of points every few seconds. It wasn't a steady regen, it was small jumps.

Successfully updated karma reason!

There's also a bug when playing against the AI. Same thing happened to me when facing off against the Vampire Lord. When you COULD hit him, it wasn't doing any noticable damage.

Good times.

Successfully updated karma reason!

This is where replays would be awesome

Yeah, wish I'd have thought to take it. I was totally pissed off after that, though, and just quit the game. It's a little tough when you poured all your resources and efforts into your attack damage and attack speed, only to run into a character who shrugs off all the damage like it was nothing.

I don't think her damage was that high, and that's because I had some massive life steal of my own. When we fought one vs one in the open, it was a total stalemate. I would life steal enough to heal any damage she did, while her passive healing negated my damage. She definitely had the lowest damage output on her team.

Now, the Oak had some crazy life steal going, but if Sedna wasn't around I could actually kill him solo. In fact, Sedna was the only demigod I couldn't kill at the end of the game. So long as Sedna wasn't around, the other demigods were just prey for me. However, I just couldn't damage Sedna, and couldn't damage anyone else when she was around.

Successfully updated karma reason!

human torch can reduce regen by 75% when going frost.. gg regen

Successfully updated karma reason!

I believe the hard AI gets bonuses to innate healing and will continue to do so until someone points out why I'm wrong.

Successfully updated karma reason!

The in-game tooltip says hard doesn't cheat, although frankly I stopped believing that after my fifth game where my allied hard AI's were just getting trounced by the enemy hard AI's...

Successfully updated karma reason!

I like how after about 30 minutes they're running around so fast it looks like they're trying to out-run Kenyans.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Quoting Darvin3,

reply 13

The in-game tooltip says hard doesn't cheat, although frankly I stopped believing that after my fifth game where my allied hard AI's were just getting trounced by the enemy hard AI's...

true that. Talk about some mad stat increase on each level they gain.

Successfully updated karma reason!

I've seen that same thing with the super healing. I think they just get so much armor that whatever dmg does get through, it ain't enough.

It probably isn't 1800 hp/sec if you aren't already figuring for armor in that. You can nail a creep for 600 but then hit a heavily armored dg for less than 300.

Successfully updated karma reason!

I had the same exact experience with OP....backed up to my crystal, I was oak with all my minions, throwing pentinace, followed by his AOE and slamming with my axe along with an AI rook slamming the ground and Senda's HP stayed within 50 pts of the max the entire time. Something is definately borked.

If this is real and can be done by a person, Sedna is way OP.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Quoting Tman,

reply 17

If this is real and can be done by a person, Sedna is way OP.

Even if sedna is like this for human, it would be fine; because she just doesn't die. UB on the other hand will kill all five of your team next to a crystal and proceed to destroy citadel in few seconds... alone.

Successfully updated karma reason!

I tested out some sedna builds last night and while you can get pretty damn rediculous regen going, its nothing compared to what you guys were talking about. I could tank 3 AI's, but it required my heal spell in addition to my passive regen.

Looks like a bug to me.

Successfully updated karma reason!

What if you include 2 of each of the healing idol minions? I think you could get pretty close. they heal every 5 seconds, for between 10 and 30% of her life or something dont they?

Although the AI probably doesnt glitch the idols eh

Successfully updated karma reason!

I think it has to do something with AI hax. Me and my friend experienced the same last game. We could kill them without problems at first but in the end (lvl 19-20) they just became invincible. We stood at our chrystal beating their Regulus with UB and Regulus with best artifact gear, he healed all our damage right away. When this happens, take down their citadel instead.

Successfully updated karma reason!

When this happens, take down their citadel instead.

The map was the huge snake map. There's only one approach into their base and it's really close to their crystal. They had a TB and an Oak. Couldn't get past when their demigods were blocking the way, and I was eventually forced to retreat. My allies couldn't hold the line so we got pushed back, and I never managed to get it back into their base.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Quoting ,

quoting post

I was playing a 4v4 game with hard AI's last night. The teams were UB(me), Rook, QoT, Regulus vs Sedna, Oak, Torch, Erebus.

My allies were playing particularly poorly, feeding the other team regularly. I personally find the AI butchers Rook and QoT, playing them absolutely atrociously, but that's another story entirely. I managed to keep the kill count roughly even, despite Sedna's constant interference and the fact that the Oak had been fed with lots of kills from my allies. After one particularly nasty push where I caught each enemy demigod in succession and killed them all, we managed to get right up against their citadel and control the map before being pushed back. It was all downhill from there because the enemy demigods were regenerating health faster than I could damage them.

Now, I'd had troubles with Sedna all game. I just presumed with was still her causing some problems, but then it came down to the four of our team sitting around our healing crystal. Sedna comes running in alone and we all pounce on her: even as we stun her, maim her, and all four of us pounding on her, her health doesn't go down at all. She just stays at full health regenerating faster than we're damaging her.

What's going on here? I know my allies sucked this game (Rook was still level 19 an hour into the game ), but we had a full team beating on one demigod and couldn't even scratch it. I had the all-father ring and the really expensive axe (the one next to it in the artifact shop) that silences. I was using that on Sedna to shut down her healing.

Also, any general strategies for dealing with high level Oak/Sedna teams would be appreciated. I just couldn't do anything but run when those two were together.

I experienced EXACTLY the same right now.

Hard solo tournament, 4v4 on Leviathan. I tried TB for a change, Erebus, QoT and another douchebag. The other team consisted of Sedna, Oak, Rook and UB.

Sedna dominated the whole game and was the first to hit 20. She was always a pain in the ass and raked up most kills.

Oak was running around ... and I mean RUNNING. I've never seen a DG with a speed like that. Sometimes even Rook ran like fuck.

Then they stood in front of our citadel, taking heat from all sides and dishing out heavily, too. Built many upgrades, had only angels though. I stood next to the healing crystal and fired Ring of Fire after Rain of Ice after Frost Nova after Fireball ... and she barely lost any health while the healing crystal fed me like crazy. I swear it looked like she siphoned our crystal, too, although I can't confirm that reliably.

We managed to kill two enemies, which freed our troops to concentrate on Sedna, which was eventually too much even for her. Btw. my maxed Frost Nova froze her considerably less than 3 seconds. She fled.

I raked in enough kills to buy up to giants, which pushed the enemy back for a while since they only got priests. Captured both neutral portals, invaded their base, got pushed back, saw Sedna in our capital pummeled by 10 giants and two demigods, never seeing her falter.

Ten minutes later our Citadel crumbled. Took me more than an hour to lose.

Ok, Sedna can heal like crazy ... but not even the Allfather would be able to pull of stuff like that. And add that to the super fast Oak around the time most of us hit level 10 ....

Nah, hard is cheating too hard for my tastes.

Successfully updated karma reason!

I wonder if the AI gets bonuses to items they use as well.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Aroddo: I have seen the rook run like that too, it's insane

Darvin3: The AI isn't very smart even if they are super strong. When we faced them on exile wich has a bottleneck right next to the citadel, they very busy fighting our creeps at our citadel so we just ran passed them.

Successfully updated karma reason!