Most full fire TBs I've played with don't seem to do nearly as well as the ones who take skills from each side, or the full ice TBs either, mainly because so many of the skills from the ice tree are beneficial to a team, whereas fire is just damage and creep control.

The thing is, I get *better* late game, I typically end the game when I'm level 20 and everybody else is 15...with Ashkandur and Mageslayer. I'm a beast as fire, and no amount of control can keep up with it. Every time I try throwing a hybrid build together it fails miserably.

Keep in mind this is all just from my personal experience, and that's mainly been me and two friends against four hard AIs. I can take on two or three at a time and send them all running or kill them. But again, in my personal experience - Fire > Fire + Ice > Ice.

I can tell you right now its because you are playing against AI. Your strategy would not work online and you would not have 2 Artifacts.

My build is Straight fireball + rain of ice until lvl 8 and 1 frost nova in there > 1 in shatter thingy at 9 > 2 in Fireball and ROI at 10 > restin to shatter thingy until 13 > 2 in Fire and Ice and the lvl 15 ROI thing, rest into frost nova and w/e you want.

All you can really do is Peg people with fireball and ROI until you hit lvl 15. If you're getting close enough to fire nova, CoF, etc, you'll get slaughtered online.

Exactly that. No matter how "hard" the AI is, its still a AI and the AI in demigod are prone to suiciding into Human players with relative ease. I can devour them in my sleep. And it wouldn't be that hard to nuke a bunch of them to death with the Torch Bearer, as AI are very good at feeding human players.

But online I have hardely seen a TB player since they aren't usually that great, I like the TB though, especially for what he says ahah, but not the Demi for me.

I consider myself an excellent demigod player, I have 15-20 screenies of endgame stats with me 3-7 levels higher than everyone else in the game with 200+ favor points etc.  I play full fire tb and I believe that is the best way to go.  There are only two times I switch to ice:

1) when capping flags or early game in idle periods in order to grab the mana buff real quickly

2) when I am oom or other situations when I want to be able to run and shoot normal attack simultaneously, like when chasing someone down when I'm too oom for a fireball.  Typically this is early game stuff as well.

I think its been proven already that the following formula is foolproof:

1) Go pure DPS

2) Unload all your damage

3) Win Duels vs. Hard AIs

4) Farm up a couple Artifacts

5) Own a couple of comp-stomps with your friends

6) Post on forums that all DPS builds are the way to go

Try playing pantheon or team up your friends vs. an equal team then get back to us.  There is a huge difference between duels and team battles, Comps and Players.  You only need to play against one good player with any general to learn that all fire TB is lulz-worthless in most situations unless the rest of your team carries you with disables.

For everyone else, let me give you a couple of easy fixes for Fire TB:

Erebus: Swarm, Bite, mist dodge fireball, own TB.

Oak: Penitence as soon as you see fireball animation.  Shield the aoe attacks, own TB.

QoT: Your shield is already on and can be recast pretty soon after it drops, spike damage tickles.

Sedna: He just did 3k damage to you but you have 6k total, 70 hps regen, and healed 1200 of it, who cares.

Rook: You are probably just Boned (unique case), try to bolder roll stomp and out dps him.

Regulus: Mark of the Betrayer, mines, probably a draw if you survive original Damage dump.

UB: Self explanatory: venom, ooze, grip, lulz, only issue is getting in range, let any general initiate.

Ice or Combo TB:  Interrupt Fball, lulz when you outdps him from range, chase down with aura/superior moving attack, lulz more cause hes probably going back to play more comp-stomps after this

1) Not talking about playing against AI. If your opponents are distracted/not melee-oriented, it's entirely viable to run in with fire nova and CoF and then run out, especially if you're using a HP heavy TB build or have speed items/wand of speed. Need to assess the situation, obviously, since sometimes it will get you killed, but this isn't an AI strat...I have no reason to discuss AI strats with a guy who is asking about playing online.

2) Never mentioned having 2 artifacts, or even any artifacts. I really don't even know why you bring this up, since I don't see where it matches up in my post.

I quoted you instead of OP on accident.

there's a place for a full fire TB build in multiplayer. its not a DG killer though. it is however exceptionally good at lane pushing since nothing owns creeps as much as those Fire AoE spells and Fireball is a great anti-tower spell. combine that with the aura that buffs up all your reinforcements speed and damage and you've got a first class lane pusher.

on the other hand, if you expect to actually be useful in multiple DG clashes you need to be ice. Deep Freeze and Frost Nova are way too good to not have when fighting enemy DGs. 

As the writer of the Icebuild TB guide, I want to add some precisions to what I wrote.

In terms of raw DPS, FB does more damage than IB. That's just plain numbers. But the whole point is, is DG a game about raw DPS or teamplay?

When your write "damage IS control", I couldn't agree less. Controling a fight is determining the outcome, in other words knowing if you can defeat your opponenent or if you will have to run oom or outnumbered. Having the ennemy DG flee is, imo, exactly what you DO NOT want. If you can't kill your opponent alone, you can prevent him from retreating, waiting for support.

When you blast your FB + FN and the ennemy runs, you just lost a kill. If you let your opponent engage you, slowing his attacks with ice rain + frost aura, eventually freezing him for 3 sec and shattering him, when your mates arrive the target is mid life and fully debuffed. At this point let me quote my friend George Clooney : "Ice build, what else" ?

Hybrid build is tricky and imo not ideal for every game, partly because its only fully operational very late in the game (15+, obviusly). Now lets suppose you got a maxed out hybrid (max fire ball and shater, max ice rain). If you open at a range with a FB, your opponent will flee in a 1v1 situation, so you loose. I would start in Icec stance, approach target, IR, freeze shatter and then only turn to fire stance and FB him.

The way I see it (I still have to test this out), this is a fail because even with a IR, Freeze, Shatter, FB combo you will not drop your target (remember we talk end game here). And you end up in fire stance, not slowing down your ennemy's retreat, having FB on cd and too far away for a Fire Nova. But I will test a hybrid build i promise!

That's why I prefer sticking to the Ice build, still swapping stance for mana regen or improved weapon dmg as stated in my guide

I agree that he shines early game, however I am certain he is able to shine late game as well properly equipped along with most DGs.   As I point out in a later reply when I am playing Ice TB, Icebearer is slower to get going but can be more effective late game.   One of the fanciest things about Fire Torchbearer however is his Area of Effect Damage.   Sure Ice can deal 1000 with blizzard.   That isn't nearly the same as Fire's area damage.   If enemy players rush at you and try to make a push the fact that you can deal damage to an entire area can be significant and also give your other allies the upper hand.   Obviously every DG is better in different situations.   Fire Torch isn't nearly as effective even early on if there is a Sedna around.

Both builds are good.  I prefer going mostly with fire, and getting deep freeze up so that you can get the 1350 fireball.  The key to TB is to grab a mana helm or two then stack hp/armor.  Don't go for +dmg items, or faster attack items.  If you stack hp/armor, you can have 5k hp+ with a ton of armor.  Remember armor doesn't negate spell/ability damage, so end game their dmg(regulus, oak, unclean beast) has gone way down while yours is still good.