The kind of people you draw into the community is based on the product you are selling and to whom you market the product to. This community is a result of Demigod, not the other way around. There will always be idiots in online communities but it's also dependant on the game and how much people actually enjoy the game. Drama and flaming in communities works fine when it's based around competitive gaming etc, but Demigod has none of this which means most of the disappointment, anger, drama and flaming i see is a result of the game itself.

I am a firm believer of leading by example, and a hefty use of:

BANZHAMMZORRZ!

 

Though it's usually, use bans frugally for two-thre weeks, then things usually work for a few months, then, rinse n' repeat.

That has been my experience at least..

To those advocating strict moderation--for years we've made it a point to be as hands-off as possible while still encouraging users to be civil with each other. Moving to start tossing out bans every time someone is impolite would be a pretty major shift, and I don't see things going that far.

And for those suggesting it, no, 4chandom is not something for any community to aspire to.

Kryo, not sure if you had read my post but I've seen overzealous and overcasual moderation, and the middle ground usually works the best.  I am not an advocate for banning really, instead I view it something as a final option if people simply will not change their behavior after a lot of guidance and patience. 

A tiered system of punishment in my opinion works the best, where infractions can be given which do not interrupt the ability to use the forum at low levels, and result in temporary posting ability suspensions later.  There still needs to be a solid moderation staff behind it though, specifically a team of people that are not eager to give warnings for any little thing.  What I've seen sometimes in new community moderators is that they're over eager to fix things, and end up being too tough on users.

This is what I've been trying to say the whole time.

Seriously though, I think forums can be fine if those of us who post regularly take control of it and stay civil.  Moderators exist, and as long as they get rid of people who have nothing to say and just try to make people angry, I think that's great.

I do believe this forum could use a bit more of a good natured atomosphere. While it may be bad for some this is also mild compared to other forums I have witnessed, but yes it could use improvement. I must confess I too have scream profanity at my monitor whil playing demigod online and maybe some of the hostility stems from that. When all else fails I go to a quiet room with my computer and proceed to scream and shout while killing virtual creatures for the hell of it.

Heh that's an optimistic post Frogboy, hope it has an effect.

The difference in GC2 forums and even Sins forums from a game such as Demigod is the difference between what kind of player is attracted to Single Player games and who is attracted to multiplayer games.  Multiplayer gaming and with it, competitive gaming seems to come hand in hand with quite a few behaviours that turn off the kind of people who play Sins/GC2 and of course who frequent them forums.

Competitive gaming seems to attract the following types of people:

1) People who think it's cool to be rude, these are kind of like your bullies at school, they attack to make themselves look like they know what they are talking about.  It earns them 'respect' with some people because them weak individuals believe it decreases their chance of being attacked and being made to look the fool.  Also others will side with them, they want to be on the side of the arrogant person, because they also like the idea of being one of these people that looks bigger than others.

2) People who like to stir up trouble, everyone who knows forums knows the type, they know how to cause multiple page long threads of people just arguing and name calling.  They can even do it with the most obvious troll attempts, they just know how to hit people's buttons.  They get off on the thought that they were the creators of it.  Like there is some kind of positive for them to 'create' destruction.

3) Schadenfreudes/Sociopaths.  People who like to "f*** people up!" in games.  The gankers, the cheaters, the people who's ultimate enjoyment in an online game is the other person whining.  They get enjoyment from the thought that the other person has just stopped enjoying what he is doing.  They can be charismatic and influential but when it comes down to it they are quite antisocial.  On forums they can appear like number 1 or number 2, in real life they are probably totally normal, give them anonymity and they will very likely turn on people for a reaction.

 

In real life all of them qualities are total negatives, frowned upon, would hinder careers if it was open, ruin your standing in society, with friends and partners.  On the internet where anonymity gives these people a voice that has to be listened to, is invulnerable, and can even find plenty of support from like minded people, most of the normal people of the world will get drowned out amongst all the bile.

So what am I saying with this ridiculous rambling.  You have a lot of fans, normal civilised people who frequent the GC2 forums who spilled over their good attitudes to Sins which is predominantly single player game.  Even in the Sins community you have the unashamed rude and arrogant individuals but not many.  Hopefully as Demigod has adopted a lot of these communities they will be a majority voice in this forum where you are going to attract a lot of all that is bad about multiplayer gamers, but I doubt it.  I don't think it will be long before the forums are as bad as any PvP MMO forum, any FPS forum, or any RTS.

I can't believe someone would actually hope that "Some day, if we're lucky, our community could be just like 4chan!"

I mean, that's like "One day, I hope my country can be as stable and peaceful as the Middle East! With clowns!"

in any current pvp game.. this happens.

 

you want to eliminate the hate?

Dont offer public forums.. really.. Im ok with that. I like playing against pvp gamers, but I cant stand being in forums with most of em

Seriously. Just have a suggestion system, and bug reporting.. Otherwise, the tools will come out, and talk trash here

I agree that arguments will occur is most team orientated environments, however I don't think arguments are a bad thing. They're healthy discussion and offer some very interesting points and perspectives... as long as both sides remain friendly and show respect for one another. They become heated as people are often passionate, especially when discussing their own or faovurite teams or matters of personal interest, but heated or passionate arguments in and of themselves are also not a bad thing. The problem comes with the 'elitest' attitude - when one person or team believes that they're better than everyone else and post accordingly. In my opinion, when the terms "n00bs" and "nubs" and their derivatives are used to describe other people, not new members as term 'newbie' was created for, we start to slip down that spiral. This is of course not limited to these terms or the people who use them, in fact some of the most egotistically driven and down-talking people are also some of the most well spoken. It's all in their mindset; a complete lack of respect for fellow community members.

I don't like the DotA community because the majority of it's users harbour the above mentioned 'elitest' mindset; as is often said, everyone knows how to play two Heroes perfectly - theirs and yours.

Being closely related to DotA is not a bad thing. DotA in and of itself is amazing; a single mod has become an internet sensation and reminds me of the storm around Counter-Strike when it first hit the scene. The gameplay is unique, if fairly shallow and limited by the fact that it's a mod coupled with the restrictions of the WCIII engine, and has spawned a new subgenre of games; without DotA I'd not have Demigod to enjoy. I, personally, no longer play DotA; one map and shallow Heroes is only entertaining for so long. However DotA is popullar for a reason and is not a bad game/mod/map. The community that has sprung up around it, however, is the second worst I have ever experienced. World of Warcraft's is still the king.

Real-time multiplayer games tend to attract a younger, more competitive crowd.  You're not going to get nearly the same sort of calmness and friendliness as in GalCiv's community, or (hopefully) Elemental's.  If a 12 year old loads GalCiv, his reaction will probably be "These are some [very bad] graphics," after which he'll close it and never venture onto its forums.  Perhaps, if you're lucky, he'll comment on a forum somewhere that "galciv sux lol."  Unfortunately for the community, the younger crowd won't be turned off by Demigod: it has nice, modern graphics and direct player-versus-player competition based to some degree on reflexes.  It caters nicely to the folks who still have sub-100ms reaction times.

I realize the "age argument" is pretty standard on the Internet, but I remember being 14 on the tubes and I was definitely an ass; I'm not just criticizing anyone who happens to be a teen or preteen right now.  It's just maturity.

replying to bump the post, because more people need to read this in light of the recent *minor* balance changes from GPG. there's no way to make a balance change, no matter how small that won't enfuriate some people. and those enfuriated people so frequently get carried away and take it out on the forums.

 

p.s.

 

you sure that hands-off moderation is a good thing? i mean, some people very obviously need the ban hammer. this fellow for instance: Extacide (http://forums.demigodthegame.com/posts/3562699)

 

 

Well, I've pretty much lived on the EVE forums for the last 4 years, and it really really depends what parts you frequent. CAOD used to be OK before Goons colonised, but the moderation is pretty firm in other places save C&P... The dynamic is just a bit different from normal forums as the couple of hundred thousand people who use it are linked to their in-game characters to such a degree that CCP doesn't need to do much to them, anyone who's flamed can shoot back in-game.