From machine gun to nerf gun. Nerf thread on a DG by DG basis.

Gh0st_Note-

Join Date 01/2007

+17

From machine gun to nerf gun. Nerf thread on a DG by DG basis.

I'm just basing this off of my experience with the game thusfar, in pantheon, custom games, and skirmish. Keep in mind this is strictly a nerf thread, buffs also need to be done, but for balance sake, here are some nerfs that need to be made immediately. Compiling this for a future balance issue patch. Some things need to be made aware of.

This list doesn't take into account teamwork, items, etc. Only skills and natural DG abilities.

Okay now, some skills/DGs I think are unbalanced and why:

Erebus: Not only from experience, but from Vet erebus players as well have I heard this... "Erebus is the most overpowered character in the game". This stems from the fact that Erebus can jump into a battle dealing massive damage form the outset (batswarm), stun everything around him immediately, Bite which not only does massive damage but also heals erebus, then go into Mist for unvulenerability and even further DPS, oh and even after all this Bite is ready again to be used as is batswarm, oh and guess what, with no charge up times as well. Did you get damaged while using this extremely fast, high DPS combo? Then batswarm out of the battle and you are safe. Oh, yeah I forgot. EREBUS IS A FUCKING GENERAL. So now you have to add in the DPS that his minions include. All of this combines for a character that not only can dish out far too much damage (considering he's a general) and very fast with no charging AND low cooldowns, combined with his damn minions, already fast movement speed, and you have a character that is vastly more powerful than any other DG. He doesn't have a counter. Have you seen the "How can I defeat erebus?" threads lately? No one knows, because their isn't one. He doesn't have a counter DG, unlike most DGs do. Please look into this, it is getting out of hand and is completely unfair, please take some time nerf this crap of a character.

Sedna: She herself is not that overpowered, however, I think Pounce should have it's damage reduced and healing mana cost increased. Pounce is fine for not having a charge, it is suppose to be a fast attack, but I really don't think it needs to be as powerful as it is. Other than that, I think Sedna is fine.

Unclean Beast: Needs some serious nerfing. I definitely think Erebus is the most overpowered character in the game but Unclean Beast falls in as second. First off, Spit should not have the range that it does. I think it was a stupid decision to make it an almost long range attack when UB is a purely melee character. What is the logic in that? His most powerful move and arguably ONE of the most powerful moves in the game, is a long range attack on a melee character, makes no sense. Spit should have a long charge before using, it should also have it's damage stretched out over a longer period of time, and a much longer cooldown. This is the main gripe I have with Unclean Beast, the rest of skills are fine as is, it's when they are used in tandem with bite does it make UB so overpowered overall. You can't really escape him early game.

Rook: Doesn't have any balance issues that I am aware of.

Regulus: I am a big time Reg player. I can safely say that some nerfs should be made on Reg. First off, I think mines should cost more mana, and have a longer casting time. Second, I think Snipe should have it's late game damage reduced, or atleast should not be able to hit enemies in the fog of war. If they are in the fog of war it should not connect. Other than that, Reg is fine. If you can get up in his face and past his mines, he is screwed.

Torchbearer: Doesn't need too many nerfs, however, I think his superpowerful fire attack should NOT be able to follow you even after you have made considerable distance from it's range casting range. I think it should dissipate or do less dmg the further it travels atleast... otherwise it can be a bit ridicluous when you vastly outrun torchbearer, get nearly out of range of his fire move, only for it to travel all the way to you even though you have in this time, made it far away from TB, and connect.

Queen of Thorns: Nothing glaring. Seems fine, like Rook.

Oak: Not unbalanced in anyway, although the Last Stand suicide run can be very annoying and extreme disgrace to the game. Last Stand should not be able to target buildings, simple nerf.

Share your thoughts, but keep it civil. Keep in mind this thread only talks about nerfs, not buffs. Some buffs need to be made as well however.

demigod

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Edit: Bah double-posted.

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Do people really take last stand with Oak?

Maybe it's a good last ditch skill when it comes down to a drawn out conquest/fortress 3v3 or something, otherwise, he has much better. I like to not die to begin with, so last stand is sort of off the table as it implies 'hey I am going to die, but...'

This list doesn't take into account teamwork, items, etc. Only skills and natural DG abilities.

I think the topic was sort of invalidated from the start. You can't just look at some small bit of the game and judge it on its own because 'teamwork, items, etc.' are always a part of the game.

I think things are pretty well balanced. QoT seems disadvantaged from the stats. Maybe she is just the hardest to play.

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I never take the last stand with Oak either, I rather not die and the points in other skills help keep you alive than just waisting points to say hay im going to trash you cause you killed me lol.

I have played QoT more than any other dg (close to 25+ hrs), and at the beginning she is very underpowered toward late mid game she gets pretty good. She takes some time to learn her well. The key is to get bramble shield first so that you don't feed, early game don't engage enemy dg unless someone else has softed it up, focus on creeps till you get some levels. After you get some levels you can take on dg single handed. The AoE throns skill is awesome for leveling with creeps I always get this second.

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I've only played her myself in a LAN comp stomp with a buddy. She went through mana like she thought she had a crystal hovering over her head the first game (I went heavy siege). The next game, I had less mana problems, but it was kind of hard for me to kill anything... even though I also didn't have any trouble living.

After several more games with her, I came to the conclusion that she is just not as flexible as other DGs. There seems to be maybe a couple variations on her that don't gimp her up but if you stray far from those, she's just going to be a plant with boobs.

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Nerf Brad Wardell plz.

And kittens.

And frogs.

But not kitten-frogs.

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Well i suggest a "rebalance" between damage skills and "service" spells like heal, shield etc.

In later game ALL those service spells become kinda useless. Cause you get more damage in a short time then you could heal/ prevent whatever.

So in general: Increase mana cost of "damage" skills. Or increase mana cost for service spells. And increase there value.

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Defensive Sedna and QoT builds will kick the living shit out of Erebus 1v1 past level 7 or so if both are spending equal $ on equipment.

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Quoting StAcK3D_ActR,

reply 3

First off, I think mines should cost more mana, and have a longer casting time.
and on its highest level not have a 30% slow, isnt maim enough?

mines are fine as is thats the only way to get of trouble is mines

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not sure i like the premise of a thread like this. some of the critiques are reasonable, but putting them in this sort of omnibus format is distracting and doesn't help discuss the details of some specific issues. too easy to get caught up in flame wars, personal attacks, and sticking your neck out to argue as partisans for or against a particular Demigod. it would be much better to address specific issues in specific threads one at a time.

that said, the only real critique that i agree with here is regarding Erebus' Bite ability. its too mana efficient. i think it could stand to have its mana cost increased.

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Quoting StAcK3D_ActR,

reply 19

@ stilbine ok well this is in theory (i dont know how stacking of speed works or their caps so this is just a thought):

say you are the rook with 5.4 movement speed and you are vsing reg with 6 movement speed

and as rook you spend 7750 gold to get journeymans and boots of speed(sum of 25%) (5.4*0.25) + 5.4 = 6.75

then you get slowed by regulus -30% with mines 6.75 - (6.75*0.3) = 4.725 speed

then assume regulus is getting boots of speed aswell (1000 gold) so he has +10% movement speed aswell(assuming it doesnt proc) which is,

(6*0.1) + 6 = 6.6

so speed difference is 4.725 - 6.6 = -1.875

gold spent difference: 7750 - 1000 = 6750 (more than giants upgrade)

then assuming rook uses boulder roll... he still may not even get a hit in..(i havent tested this so i do not know)

and this isnt even factoring in maim.

Your caculations seem solid, but what's your point? Frankly, I wouldn't bother with speed gear on Reg, and especially not on Rook, who was never meant to be fast and was, in fact, slowed down since the Betas.

That's why his towers are whored out so much since they nerfed Hammer-Slam and Boulder Roll. They hurt things for him and allow him to retreat to closer, safe bastion.

Bear in mind that Maim's duration is very short, requiring a steady flow of shots to stay constant, it's intention being to chase down Demigods.

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Agree about Erebus, but that's about it.

I really don't see how Oak is OP aside fromt the Last Stand abuse (and even then you are giving gold to your ennemies).

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According to one of Frogboy's replies the update coming after todays will balance Erebus' bite. If you want to see it for yourself look on the "Monday Update In The Works" post. His reply is on page 3.

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I'd prefer everything to not be nerfed. One of the things I like about DG, and not other games if abilities have cool and dramatic effects. (Until late game). If we decide just to nerf everything so it's all equilly bland and ineffective, I'll definantly lose a lot of intrest.

I still wish effects of abilities were still dramatic End Game.

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How about tailoring each Demigod's abilities to fit their specific role? All these OP threads seem to assume that a 1v1 fight should always be fair. BULLSHIT. Some Demigods are meant to be support characters, others excell in 1v1 combat, and others are best at damaging groups.

Nerf everyone whining about nerfing, plz.

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To be honest ive had apsolutely no problems with erubas or oak fortunetly for QQin bitches demigod players can have a huge skillgap unlike games like cod4 or dow2 there either really shit or really good or somewhere inbetween because its all about stratergy buy the wrong item and you fail the game pick the wrong skill and your suffer the consequences.

I dont think any of regulus's skills should be nerfed from what i understand what your all having a sook about are his mines and if he goes down that skill tree he hasnt got snipe he hasnt got scope he doesnt have maim or angelic fury he just has mines so thats his kicker thats his thing what else will he have if he goes down that skill tree? nothing but his mines im a regulus player simply because hes the only dg ive stratted so far im gonna move onto stratting sedna as soon as i find out my build works.

His trade mark skill is snipe and snipe comes hand in hand with maim so if he wants maim and mines then he wont have very good mines will he?.

As for anything else being overpowered i dont know my build focuses on staying at a distance harrassing with uni gadgets and snipes so im not really phased by anything i know regulus well and i play him well and unless an enemy uses teamwork on me i know what im doing im unconcerned if the enemy dg is unbalanced coz i will have more skill (most of the times)

Also the only person in this thread making sense is stilbine i loled at when he told off some fagget (the guy making this thread i believe) for bringing down the maim/mine skills if used in conjunction are overpowered well to you i say rofl. Research your shit before you strike up a thread man..Thats worse saying ur a regulus player you should of tested that shit before you make threads..

10/10 times if your a better player then the enemy you will win theres a counter to everything its gud that u think dgs are unbalanced because your probaly going to make a stupid decision that will lead to you losing a game.

Simply play your best and know your dg and you will win unbalanced or not.

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I like that you crazy kitten/frog monstrosity, a square up of two demigods at any point in the game should not be completely fair; surely the point of the having such widely varied DGs is that they're best in certain situations. As mentioned earlier as well, some DGs are more powerful late game and some early game and this is all a part of the balance, for example an Oak or a Sedna shouldn't be able to go toe to toe with an assassin right from the start, they gain their power from minions (Sedna particularly) and so will be more effective when those minions are more powerful, numerous etc and that tends to be the late game.

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Erebus isn't as scary as some people seem to think. Snipe is useless outside of harassment. I've yet to find anything so completely bullshit I'd consider it overpowered. Things can be countered if you care to try. Erebus having no counter is a joke, everything has a counter, but its up to you to do it.

People in these games don't take the right approach. I don't pick my hero until everyone else has, and I'll pick my hero to counter theirs. People just pick Zomgroflstompingfaceroll hero and then I'll bend them over and make them my bitch, no lube involved. You don't pick a hero based on who you like, you pick your hero to counter theirs, if it happens to be a hero you like great. You also don't pick your skills based on some holy grail template or what you think is rape, you pick skills to counter their heros, you pick your items to counter theirs.

When you go into a game thinking "Lulz, I'm going to be erebus and ownzor" you're setting yourself up to lose. You strategize and react to the game, don't just do what you want. If you play yourself up you're going to fall.

Don't rely on someone else on your team to take care of the problem, take care of it yourself. Even if it puts you outside your comfort zone of X hero, or Y items, or Z skills. If you don't do it no one will, and you're going to be losing.

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Quoting masterkang5,

reply 15

I don't get it, you can get snipe and mines levelling at the same time, there's enough skill points for it and the same can be said of any two skill trees, you can spec mines and angelic fury, mines and snipe, mines and scope or whatever.

Quoting masterkang5,

reply 15

His trade mark skill is snipe and snipe comes hand in hand with maim so if he wants maim and mines then he wont have very good mines will he?.

but snipe in conjunction with maim is useless, as is maim with mines, so why get them?

anyway, the main problem people have with reg's mines and snipe, is that when used in conjunction they can almost kill a player before they can fight back - that's why it's being complained about.

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but what's your point?

well that mines slow is abit too good

then again, i just came across a thread about a slow stacking bug, maybe this occured last time i versed regulus, and is my reason behind posting "mines are over powered(imo)"

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Wow this is so stupid i cant believe im replying to this.

snipe isnt useless in conjunction with maim at all infact the opposite snipe has a fairly long spell cast time a fairly long cooldown and is fairly weak considering other say a torch bearers fire ball i believe its around the exact same mana cost but has a shorter cool down and faster cast time.

But as i was saying snipe/maim is your bread and butter with harrassing /w regulus

and if you decide to go mines and maim regulus will be piss weak and any other demigod and i mean any other will take him down in a 1v1. if he has no kicker besides mines.

I laugh when you said mines/snipe kill any player. BAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Yeah man even if u max snipe/mines it will AT BEST do 1150 damadge and a mana cost of 1520 to do 1150 damadge. Lets yet again compare this to a torch bearer who can deal up to 1050 damadge with 540 mana and a 1 sec cast 7 sec cooldown If your still standing your ground with that opinion then your a moron but heres another key factor MINES are circumstansial you have to WALK OVER THEM a fireball isnt once its thrown at you you cant dodge the 1050 dmg coming your way. mines u can just dont walk over them and they wont be op.

Also i think unclean beast is STILL a bit imba when it comes to using his skills in tandem but hey what can u do i think they upped the mana cost so its now 950 mana for 1500 dmg thats not bad considering torch bearers fireball.

Not only is unclean beast undoubtedly the best damadge dealer in the game when using his skills in tandem his hp and armour are naturally tough as balls.

But its ok those wimpy UB players can play their broken demigod ill just restrat regulus and beef him up.

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Mines have so many counters already, I wouldn't want to see it changed.

I would look at nerfing some of the artifacts first. This might encourage some to stop saving and spend on the cit more

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