My overall daily experience with Demigod » Forum Post by TheCoroner

Istari

Join Date 05/2001

+20

You have a 130 kilobit upload speed. That's about 15k per second. 3 on 3 is pushing it given your connection. First thing to do is to make sure nothing else is using up any of your bandwidth. Second, v1.01 is being optimized for lower end connections.

Successfully updated karma reason!

i had the exact same problem as this.

i have the same connection speed as you, even upload.

unfortunately my old dlink DI-524 couldnt handle the upload packets(im guessing it was upload).

so i bought a new linksys WAG160, and it works fine now! i can play 3v3s without a problem.

edit: sorry i have a 0.22mbps upload speed. but i did have the same problem with the more people joining then BOOM everyones pings go up to 1500ms

Successfully updated karma reason!

Have a friend who is fine in 3v3 but totally lagging us out in 4v4's due to this problem. I hope the 1.01 bandwidth optimisation really helps this as right now it's a huge bottleneck.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Tis a sad day when 130 upload is considered lower end.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Do you have to use /proxsyserverlonly? Not everyone has to. When you do that your packets have to go from you to whereverthehelltheyarelocated and back, times your opponents. What happens when you don't use that?

Successfully updated karma reason!

that really is a horrendously bad upload speed. its hard to get a reasonable game going with less than about 0.5 Mbps upload.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Quoting RegnorVex,

reply 5

Do you have to use /proxsyserverlonly? Not everyone has to. When you do that your packets have to go from you to whereverthehelltheyarelocated and back, times your opponents. What happens when you don't use that?

Pretty much the same exact thing. Ive tried it all ways. Port forwarding on and off, inserting those parameters on and off, and enbaling and disabling DMZ host. Still the same problem. Now I am using no other devices or programs that would take up bandwith at all. The Only thing i've had up is the game itself and still this problem occurs. Now I know that my connection is considered lowend but I dont think it should be low end to the point where even a DSL subscriber cannot play this game online. First that is a huge mistake by the devolpers of this game because it forces people (espiaclly in the economy now) to buy a higher end connection speed just to enjoy this game. It kind of turns off alot of people who have mediocre connections like mine. Meanwhile every other online game I play perfectly fine and also download torrents and music fine from other p2p connections. I'm not accusing the devs of creating this problem intentionally but still it's something that should not have been over looked. But as stated above the new patch is supposed to be optimized for lower end connections. Hopefully the 35% lower bandwith usage would be suitable for my connection which is not horribly bad.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Quoting transitive,

reply 6

that really is a horrendously bad upload speed. its hard to get a reasonable game going with less than about 0.5 Mbps upload.

so your saying the only people that can play this game are people with GREAT internet connections? Why should this game be one of the only online multiplayer games that require this. Honestly more than half of the people that play online dont really have that great connections including competative gamers. This shuns away more than half of the community. Therefore if the optimization does not get fixed soon enough this game will be on life support.

Successfully updated karma reason!

I wish Stardock change to Client/Server Hosting instead of using the current p2p.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Quoting Seeker2012,

reply 9

I wish Stardock change to Client/Server Hosting instead of using the current p2p.

i disagree

Successfully updated karma reason!

Quoting Azrailx,

reply 10

Quoting Seeker2012, reply 9

I wish Stardock change to Client/Server Hosting instead of using the current p2p.

i disagree

Reason for disagreeing?

It would be an instant fix for everyone's connection issues.

What is why Frogboy already said they will be going Client/Server for their next game Elemental.

Successfully updated karma reason!

facts are helpful things

Fact #1: nearly every online RTS game uses full p2p (Supreme Commander, DOW2, Company of Heroes) or hybrid p2p (anything on Battle.net).

contrast with FPS games, which are frequently client-server. these games tend to have dedicated full time hosting servers which are often owned by members of the community (usually Clans). This is how TF2 works. This is also more or less how Xbox Live handles Halo3 and shit like that, except of course that Microsoft owns the host.

Fact #2: if you have a bad internet connection you will have a bad online gaming experience. it is no different for this game than it is for any other game. if your connection is bad you will lag and drop frequently in any online game you play. period. full stop.

compare with EVERY OTHER GAME YOU'VE EVER PLAYED. if you play World of Warcraft on a bad connection you will lag alot. your character will appear to stutter and move erratically when viewed by other players. you may be dropped from the server and have to log back in. if you play Team Fortress 2 on a bad connection your game will look normal to you except your bullets aren't going where you aim them and other players look like they're teleporting. you may be dropped from the server.

the solution to this comes from two places. first, Stardock and GPG can reduce the data packet size which will make the game run better on tight upload bottlenecks. second, on your end you can try to maximize your upload speed by throttling connections to other sources. alot of people have alot of background stuff running thats using some of their bandwidth. automatic updaters and shit like that. you can also go look for a better ISP. this is of course constrained by cost and availability, but still, you get what you pay for.

Successfully updated karma reason!

^ wut he said

Successfully updated karma reason!

That connection isn't much better than dial-up.

I have the cheapest available broadband in my area. The next thing lower is dial-up. I still have double the download and five times the upload speed. This is considered a low-end connection. Really, I haven't seen a connection speed like that considered even decent for a decade.

Successfully updated karma reason!

i dont lag on wow at all..never drop from games on wow..never dropped on company of heroes..or starcraft..or dota..i play cod4 just fine..gears of war just fine aswell..umm battleforge fine..pretty much every game i own just fine online except this one..no lag..no drops..sometimes even 30ms..so whats makes this game any different?..and why would they make these changes in the new patch if they didnt notice that this is a problem?

[URL=http://img8.imageshack.us/my.php?image=79332867.jpg][/URL]

Successfully updated karma reason!

It's because you type like how you would speak. Stop it. Is proper capitalization too much to ask?

Anyways, it's because SupCom engine always used a huge amount of bandwidth for what it does. That said, your ISP service sucks donkeys.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Quoting TheCoroner,

reply 7

Quoting RegnorVex, reply 5Do you have to use /proxsyserverlonly? Not everyone has to. When you do that your packets have to go from you to whereverthehelltheyarelocated and back, times your opponents. What happens when you don't use that?

Pretty much the same exact thing. Ive tried it all ways. Port forwarding on and off, inserting those parameters on and off, and enbaling and disabling DMZ host. Still the same problem. Now I am using no other devices or programs that would take up bandwith at all. The Only thing i've had up is the game itself and still this problem occurs. Now I know that my connection is considered lowend but I dont think it should be low end to the point where even a DSL subscriber cannot play this game online. First that is a huge mistake by the devolpers of this game because it forces people (espiaclly in the economy now) to buy a higher end connection speed just to enjoy this game. It kind of turns off alot of people who have mediocre connections like mine. Meanwhile every other online game I play perfectly fine and also download torrents and music fine from other p2p connections. I'm not accusing the devs of creating this problem intentionally but still it's something that should not have been over looked. But as stated above the new patch is supposed to be optimized for lower end connections. Hopefully the 35% lower bandwith usage would be suitable for my connection which is not horribly bad.

(Your connection is that bad ... this is just avg. cable near my house. You barley pull 0.3 Mb/s on the UP).

Yeah ur connection is really that bad. You barley pull 0.3 on the upload. Hence why you can't play. Hence why you can open every port and be in the DMZ and do w/e the heck you want and NOTHING HELPS RITE?!.....

Quoting TheCoroner,

reply 15

i dont lag on wow at all..never drop from games on wow..never dropped on company of heroes..or starcraft..or dota..i play cod4 just fine..gears of war just fine aswell..umm battleforge fine..pretty much every game i own just fine online except this one..no lag..no drops..sometimes even 30ms..so whats makes this game any different?..and why would they make these changes in the new patch if they didnt notice that this is a problem?

Why would this game be different? WoW and stuff uses something we like to call "Client-Server". Therefor the server just keeps up-to-date with everyone and just sends you nice little info about whats going on.

In Demigod its p2p (peer-to-peer) and it doesn't work this way. YOU have to tell everyone in game what is going on just like they have to tell you everything going on with them (See if you think about it ... its pretty crazy huh? ALOT more info going around).

So think of it this way ...

2v2 - You are DLing from 3 people... their clients are telling you what is going on and you are telling them what is going on (so you are uploading to 3 people as well).

3v3 - Gets a little more intense! You are now DLing info from 5 people at a time while uploading your info to 5 different people.

5v5 - Now you are DLing from 9 people and uploading to 9 people.

See the difference? In WoW you and the server talk ... thats it. The server updates you what those thousands of kids are doing ... your not having to talk and upload what your doing to every single person. Just the server and it takes care of it.

So thats the difference. Welcome to p2p. Its your connection...

Successfully updated karma reason!

Istari

Join Date 05/2001

+20

so your saying the only people that can play this game are people with GREAT internet connections?

Broadband is generally considered to be 256 kilobit or better.

256kilobit in 2009 is not "great". It's the minimum.

The person making this post has 130 kilobits but wants to connect to 6 people online.

Someone could argue that the game shouldn't "need" 160 kilobits to have a 6 person game but they could also argue that the game shouldn't "need" a 3D accelerator either or "need" 512MB of memory to play.

Like Makerz correctly points out, RTS aren't like World of Warcraft or a first person shooter where you connect to some server and your computer is basically a dumb terminal. RTS's are more interactive because they games are synced.

RTSs aren't transient where people come and go during a particular game. They are playing together as a specific group in a syncornized game.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Quoting Istari,

reply 18

so your saying the only people that can play this game are people with GREAT internet connections?
Broadband is generally considered to be 256 kilobit or better.

256kilobit in 2009 is not "great". It's the minimum.

The person making this post has 130 kilobits but wants to connect to 6 people online.

Someone could argue that the game shouldn't "need" 160 kilobits to have a 6 person game but they could also argue that the game shouldn't "need" a 3D accelerator either or "need" 512MB of memory to play.

Like Makerz correctly points out, RTS aren't like World of Warcraft or a first person shooter where you connect to some server and your computer is basically a dumb terminal. RTS's are more interactive because they games are synced.

RTSs aren't transient where people come and go during a particular game. They are playing together as a specific group in a syncornized game.

I guess 512 kilobit or better upload should be include in the recommanded system requirement specs now?

Successfully updated karma reason!

I did a write up on the numbers: http://forums.demigodthegame.com/353556

Successfully updated karma reason!

that really is a horrendously bad upload speed. its hard to get a reasonable game going with less than about 0.5 Mbps upload.

384kbits/s upstream and playing fine 3v3.

I guess 512 kilobit or better upload should be include in the recommanded system requirement specs now?

It definitely should. You might not need a 3D accelerator, or 512 MB of RAM, but the box certainly tells you when you do.

(Your connection is that bad ... this is just avg. cable near my house. You barley pull 0.3 Mb/s on the UP).

Your "average cable" is actually Comcast cable, which is actually pretty expensive. $62.95 a month if you subscribe to another Comcast service for up to 30mbits/s downstream and 5mbits/s upstream.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Istari

Join Date 05/2001

+20

The Demigod box states Broadband connection required for online play. It's clearly stated. Broadband is generally considered at least 256 kbits/sec or better upload/download.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Lets put this in perspective:

And ISDN line, technology mostly used commercially in the late 90s, could give you around 128 kbps. Sorry dude, your internets is fail.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISDN

My case is closed.

P.S. The "Chewbacca Defence" won't work on me. I speak wookie.

Successfully updated karma reason!

I speak wookie.

Rawr.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Quoting vindKtiv,

reply 21

that really is a horrendously bad upload speed. its hard to get a reasonable game going with less than about 0.5 Mbps upload.
384kbits/s upstream and playing fine 3v3.

I guess 512 kilobit or better upload should be include in the recommanded system requirement specs now?
It definitely should. You might not need a 3D accelerator, or 512 MB of RAM, but the box certainly tells you when you do.

(Your connection is that bad ... this is just avg. cable near my house. You barley pull 0.3 Mb/s on the UP).
Your "average cable" is actually Comcast cable, which is actually pretty expensive. $62.95 a month if you subscribe to another Comcast service for up to 30mbits/s downstream and 5mbits/s upstream.

Sry kid no. Thats average cable near my house. The "non-average" would either be FIOS (not close enough to me yet darn!) or the 50Mbit of comcast. So yes this connection is the "average" cable around my house. You call them? Want your internet? Bam! -- Thx for trying to tell me about my own connection though .

And if you kids are having less than a 512kilbit and expect to keep playing games ... its just gonna get worse and worse. SC2 ... Diablo 3 ... The next blizzard MMO ? ... Aion (new mmo) ... and the rest of the games coming out this year. You expect them to work on such a little bit? Something tells me its gonna require more and more ... usually is the general pattern of PCs.

Successfully updated karma reason!