I agree . I think generals play as assasins and are even better then the current assasins.

I think most people who are disappointed in generals as generals aren't going hard enough in that direction.  If you max out Morale and get EVERY minion related skill it becomes a pretty absurd amount of DPS. And with only a couple items (Hauberk of Life, and Forest Ring) they tend to be pretty durable... especially since you can use your near-infinite mana to replace dead ones at any time.

I've always been impressed with hardcore minion builds.  The trouble is these builds are very difficult to manage early on.  It's critical that you keep your DG out of the fight and use your minion army (no matter how small) to do the dirty work.

You're not likely to get a ton of kills because there's not a lot of Nuke potential.  But you'll get a TON of assists... as any enemy that travels moderately close to you will drop to half health relatively quickly, making them a prime target for your ganking allies.    Not to mention the extra mobility and map control that comes with being able to spread out across the map.

You can send your minions to intercept and kill escaping enemy while still holding your own lane yourself.

But again, it does take a fair amount of micro (especially early on) to make sure your minions are taking the beating not your DG.

The generals were designed like assasins. Look at Sedna. Best tank in the game easily, has a strong nuke, and extremely high move speed. Fuck Yetis, just absorb damage while the rest of your team dishes it out.

Just because nobodies doing it doesn't mean it doesn't work.  I've spent a lot of time pushing hard minions with Erebus and QoT to great effect.  It is a completely different playstyle... if people can't get it to work, I'm more likely to point to user error than designer error.

Try it out sometime.  Push hard minions with QoT.

Summon Shambler - 4 ponts

Entourage->Tribute - 4 points

Compost - 3points

Morale - 6 points

You've got 3 points left.  Go Mulch if your feeling defensive, Spike Wave if you're feeling offensive.

I usually prioritze Shamblers then Morale then Entourage then Compost.

Get all your idol minions up to level 4.  I usually begin with Lvl 1 priests, then lvl 4 priests, then lvl 4 Archers, then lvl 4 Minotuars.  (The archers and minotuars usually come pretty late, I buy some items first.)

You'll need mana to summon early and often so Vlemish Faceguard is a must ASAP.

With the idols you may only have money for one or two other items (if you're paying the citadel appropriately).  The choice of what to to get is highly situational.

Plenor Battlecrown is a good one for a lot more mana, but is probably overkill.  Theurgist's cap is a better choice but is more expensive. 

Your minions WILL die, just resummon them liberally. If you feel like they are dying too often Hauberk of Life and/or Forest Band are very useful.

If you're playing well and feel super agressive, Gladiator Gloves and/or Gloves of Fell-Darkur are fun.  I usually try to at least pick up gladiator gloves.

For favor I usually go Tome of Endurance.

The KEY, especially early on is to keep QoT out of direct combat. You have no defensive abilities.  So you have to dance and keep yourself out of trouble.  This means staying VERY far away from people like Regulus, UB, and Torchbearer.  Don't even go near them.  Throw your minions at them, but don't let QoT herself get within 30 meters.  There's an invisible line which if you cross, you WILL die.  Usually that line is much further away from the enemy Demigod than you thought.

Hang back and force the enemy to wade through the sea of DPS that is your army if they want to touch you. Let the army do the heavy lifting, and just add in QoT autoattack when it's absolutely safe to get that close.

I love this build... soo much damage.  It's probably not great for smaller games or smaller maps where you can be ambushed easily or where her other spells are needed to support the team.

Give it a try.  I love it, hopefully you won't be disappionted.

"Overpower" is a dirty word around here, might want to re-word that.

No.

I have a really good Sedna build that is weak in the beggining, but late game its a rolling army that does way more damage than any assassin, and I can use it independantly without risk to Sedna herself.

I put points into Yetis, Heal, Magnificent Presence, and Moral. Add Gloves of Fell-Dur and items for Mana and minion toughness. They do a sustained rate of aggregating damage, its awesome. The downside is its easy to run away from them, as they are slow, and they're a pain to get to do what I want, because they are stupid.

I don't think it takes too many skill points, but my problem is money. I have to get my army rolling quick, and that leaves Sedna herself without any gear, or I risk some gear and leave my army too weak to do anything until its too late.

So it's possible, but I agree with the general thrust of your post.

But while you're doing this, a classic Assassin Sedna (Asassedna?) is levelling Pounce, Heal, Mag Pres and Inner grace and becoming a bursting, stunning, damage cannon. Pounce is pound for pound worth so much more than Yetis it's not even funny, IMO, and all your gear can focus on making you even better,and going in your citadel. You can buy Bishops and go rollin' rollin' rollin'. Why spend all those points in Yetis and Morale?

QoT can be very good with pets if played right.

thats what i quite often think as well. i see so many general players not even makin minion. they just beat the shit out of the other team and i see no disadvantages compared to some generals.

I am surprised if lag makes a difference in the relative positions of you and your minions. Doesn't lag "slow" everything in the game down equally?

Apparently not.

I remember one game distinctly where I went hard Yetis in a 4v4 and the whole game they were always trailing me. After one of those massive disconnects where everybody left it was just me vs. the comp. Magically, my Yetis no longer had trouble keeping up. Prior to the other people leaving, it was a very laggy, slow game. With the comp only the game was full speed and smooth.

As for other replies above basically stating minion and summon builds are better than I give them credit for, I have to say "I'm sure that's possible". However, I've tried the same classes over and over in minion vs. assassin builds and I have found it's a matter of opportunity cost and effectiveness and so I stick w/ the thrust of my OP.

I have never seen a minion based hero dominate a game like I've seen pounce/heal Sednas dominate, Bite/Bats/Stun Erebus dominate,  or a late game SoF/Pen/Shield Oak dominate. I've also never seen a good QoT who didn't have shield early on and both ground spike spells later on.

I'm sure people can do some wonderful things as generals, I just don't see it in game after game. I suspect there's a reason for it.

Like someone pointed out above, they tried a more general based playstyle in the beta and apparently it didn't work out. I suspect part of it was the trouble involved in pathing and AI as well as I bet it's really hard to balance a general with all his units. There's probably a fine line between over and under powered. As it is, I think they opted for general builds to be a slight bit weak.

It doesn't hurt me in he least, I play all the heroes now and as such I can go either way or do anything and it doesn't bother me.

All I know is that if they want generals to play less like assassins then they need to impliment HUDs for generals. This will let them focus on supporting teammates and microing their minions. You don't know how lame trying to play a support Sedna is until 1 Rook towers above all your teammates stopping you for being able to heal who you need to heal. And good luck knowing who needs a heal, all you see is a giant castle swinging a hammer at your face and blobs of green bars with no lable. Sure you can move the camera around but any decent player will agree that split second timing in this game is critical.

the reason why i dont play as a minion build is because  there too slow to harass  there weak ass hell  and they arn't very useful