i agree with everything he said

the only thing plague is usefull for, is that your enemy without orb cant use his hol for 30sek. it isnt good dmg at all.

100% correct.

Considering spit UB loses to Ooze UB lategame when 1.5k spit actually comes into play... yeah, not that great.

Spit's really effective at level 4 and 7. At level 10... well, three spits doesn't matter much when you have 7k HP and are slowing the enemies autoattacks to a snails pace.

Spit is good. Its great for buildings, and its great for early harassing. Yea maybe if you plan on playing a 3 hour game spit will end up being less then useful..but most games I play I dont even hit 20. If spit is good upt o level 10 that usually means its good for 2/3 of the game. Not having it WILL put you at a loss if the other team is playing ot win and not just playing to beef up their characters. (although I always play with enhanced towers and enhanced grunts now, so that also alters my opinions).

You also really can't say "Well ooze builds beat spit builds so ooze must be better". It's rock/paper/scissors. Most of the newbs grabbing spit and not ooze are grabbing full ranks of diseased claws, plauge, and frenzy. Truthfully you can get spit and ooze just fine. Ooze wins not because of its damage though. It beats spit builds because of the attack speed reduction. If someone with just spit fights someone with just ooze, the ooze then spit will do more magic dmg but the other UB will hit 40% slower. If a UB with spit/ooze fights a pure ooze with that many points in things like plague and inner beast, I promise the spit/ooze build will win.

Ooze generally works better against Generals, while Spit works better against Assassins. However, it's possible to get Spit AND Ooze, but will need some more mana gear, but if you can kill them faster, you won't need as much health.

The thing is, three spits is 4.5k damage. In that time, an Ooze UB gets off 4.2k damage with Ooze [well, a little less due to spit-stacking], has lowered your autoattacks to be 60% as effective as normal, and has much more HP than you. It's not particularly effective, and you will be out of mana or close to it after three. Spit is effective, but saying you have to take it is like saying you "need" circle of fire as TB: It's a good skill, but very overrated.

Also, your hybrid build is one of the worst I've seen. Not only is beastial wrath a worthless skill, but you won't be getting it until level 16-20 with your build, and you won't be getting any of the passives (besides one point in one) until level 11.

Those spits aren't going to mean anything if the other DG can remove it. And hps can mitigate it.

The point about removing spit was targeted more towards the general idea of it being good late game. I'm not saying it isn't, as it's great against buildings, but depending on spit is too risky for my taste.

As for a hybrid vs pure ooze, a hybrid build will have to skip out on many of the passive upgrades in order to keep both ooze and spit at their highest rank. In addition to that, a hybrid build will need both a +mana item or 2 to continously use spit and a few +health and +hps items to use ooze effectively. So overall, you will have both lower health and base stats than me, and despite the fact that you are causing more skill damage I still have the chance to outlast you, since damage isn't everything.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying spit or a hybrid build can't be effective. It's just that spit has a large number of counters and a hybrid build is less effective until at least late-game.

I agree that early game, a hybrid build isn't very effective.  But after level 10, you can have ooze, diseased claws, and inner beast all maxed to that point.  If you have a heart of life and unbreakable boots at that point (both pretty good items for an ooze build), you can easily have enough mana to use both foul grasp and spit, without taking any other mana items. 

Basically what I'm getting around to arguing is spit is often worth taking over stats in the later levels of what was, up to that point, a pure ooze build (particularly if you're against another UB).  It makes you a lot more viable against buildings, provides DPS in your regular fights, and allows you to snag a few kills on runners.

First off, can't chase somebody into the towers? What? Are you kidding me? 5k hp by level 6, with enough armor that towers deal ~170 damage isn't enough to tank the towers? It's incredibly easy to get a kill in the towers with an Ooze UB; I frequently get kills on enemies attempting to flee into areas with two towers, and one is hardly a deterrant at all. If I couldn't kill them anyway, I won't chase, but any demigod with under 2k hp is probably going to be cannon fodder for me even at the towers (except Sedna, QoT, or Erebus).

With the gear you suggested, you get three spits (maybe four if you get unbreakable boots before level 7). Wow. That's pretty pathetic, honestly. Sure, you have your glory; for all of three encounters (or less). Then you have to fall back. Nice.

Also, did I ever say that scaring your opponents away was a bad thing? It's not. But the points in Ooze ARE wasted if you scare people away by spitting on them. Your other passives either give you more stats or allow you to chase enemies better, but having Ooze with spit just gives you nothing until the enemy actually engages you, and then your reduced HP pool or limited mana pool make it pretty shakey (plus the fact you can't chase them unless, as I'll point out later, they happen to fall into a very risky assumption to make).

One point in diseased claw + wand? That only works if your enemy has no speed buffs on themselves or debuffs on them, is dumb enough not to buy a wand themselves, and can be killed in seven seconds. A lot of assumptions there.

Your build works, if your opponenets have no natural speed buffs and don't have a wand of speed, and if you can somehow manage to keep getting mana pots and still have enough gold to stay geared. But those are a lot of hard assumptions to make. But with spit taking huge amounts of mana, you are going to need more mana gear if you want to use it constantly and/or have foul grasp handy. The gear isn't going to look the same as somebody with Ooze unless you enjoy retreating every three/four times you spit and having to hope you still have enough mana for foul grasp. But those are bad assumptions to rely on.

To Cyrenic: Taking spit means you need mana gear, no matter what stage you are at. There is no point in de-gearing yourself for HP to take spit (especially considering my build generally starts taking stats at level 6 and gets passives a bit later, unless I'm being outsped.). I mean, sure, you can get it, but you won't get much use out of it, while having 660 extra health and 12% more AA damage will matter.

Also, HoL is pretty terrible for Ooze builds; it requires them to turn off their Ooze and Narmoth's ring is a lot better (for HP) in the same price-range, because it actually lets them heal during combat. And you can't have diseased claws maxed by level 10 with spit and ooze; you can have two points in it if you skip foul grasp.

Considering using HoL requires me to retreat entirely from battle, yes, I find it pretty terrible when there is an item that costs the same, gives me a good amount of HP and regen, and lets me heal mid-battle.

For mana dependant DGs, sure, HoL is way better. The mana gain is simply insane. But with UB, why would I ever need to use a HoL? I get more HP instantly by using a sigil of vitality (and it costs less) and I get more HP during the battle with a Narmoth's ring. It's pretty much ALWAYS going to be worse, and if I have to retreat, it isn't going to be a situation where I can just patch myself up a bit and go back in (if I'm retreating, I've probably taken ~5k damage, maybe even 6k.). I have no mana needs, HoL heals less than 500 cost consumables, HoL requires me to leave battle, and HoL is worse for me than Narmoth's ring. Why would I want it?