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AnnihilatorX
AnnihilatorX
Join Date 03/2004
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Connectivity index - We need more info than ping

June 9, 2009 3:31:45 PM from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

For P2P architecture to work flawlessly the users will need more information on conenctions than just the pings.

Currently lags in Demigod are basically caused by:

  • An unusual high ping between any two players
  • Simspeed (computer speed)
  • Upload bandwidth
  • Download bandwidth


We need to know:

  • Longest information route time (ping) between any two hosts, if so which two.
  • Average sim speed statistics of all players
  • Upload bandwidth
  • Download bandwidth

While it may be a hassle to shown all that information, a connectivity index which combines all of the above would be preferable.
Calculation may be as follows:

MAX(ping to player 1, ping to p2, ping to p3, ping to p4, ...) - ((10 + simspeed) * 100)

*If simspeed is negative the score increases.
*If upload bandwidth is less than (number of clients * threshold) then add say 200 to the connectivity index
*Same for download bandwidth.

The higher the score, the worst the connection is.

The upload bandwidth or download bandwidth testing may be a problem. But it can be implemented by only testing for random 512kbyte packets throughout the P2P setup (Say I send 512kbyte to all other 5 players) and record the lowest speed of doing so, and maybe repeat 3 times and take the median.

If such information is known, and some testing will reveal what level of the connection index is acceptable. Color code the index number so people know what is good what is bad. Having such elaborate network test may increase lobby setup time, but I'd rather wait longer in lobby than having a laggy game that drags on half an hour.

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AnnihilatorX
tazgecko
Join Date 05/2008
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Reply #1 June 9, 2009 3:49:18 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Would you need to know the download bandwidth?

In my experience all connections have a lower upload than download...

The sim speed is a great idea, it should be in the lobby.

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AnnihilatorX
Talsworthy
Join Date 02/2006
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Reply #2 June 9, 2009 3:49:31 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

I would agree. Maybe an icon in lobby that showed acceptability of connection and then hovering over it gives more info. The biggest reason for lag appears to be when a persons net connection cannot cope with the net traffic of DG - which a ping may not indicate.

At the same time I frequently play with players across the atlantic with very little lag and wouldn't want these players to be black listed by errant reporting of the above

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InfiniteVengeance
Join Date 04/2009
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Reply #3 June 9, 2009 3:52:08 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Sim speed is the crucial missing factor, because it makes the game lag just as much as people who are actually lagging due to connection problems.

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AnnihilatorX
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Reply #4 June 9, 2009 4:31:17 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Quoting tazgecko,
reply 1
Would you need to know the download bandwidth?

In my experience all connections have a lower upload than download...

The sim speed is a great idea, it should be in the lobby.

 

It's a problem when people are heavily downloading or BitTorrenting

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InfiniteVengeance
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Reply #5 June 9, 2009 4:34:58 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

When you're heavily downloading (actually it's when you're heavily uploading that affects things) from bittorrent it does affect your ping though - you will see it shoot up.

 

I know....from experience....

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Reply #6 June 9, 2009 4:45:59 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Quoting InfiniteVengeance,
reply 5
When you're heavily downloading (actually it's when you're heavily uploading that affects things) from bittorrent it does affect your ping though - you will see it shoot up.

 

I know....from experience....

 

I am not just referring to BT, but regular http download as well, which won't affect as much.

The effect of BT on ping depend a lot on the agressiveness of your Bit Torrent client software, different software differs, as well as the capability of the router in your network.

I have QoS (Quality of service) setup so that my router prioritize all Internet traffic other than BT, so in my case I get good ping even though I am heavily downloading.

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InfiniteVengeance
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Reply #7 June 9, 2009 5:06:11 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

I have QoS (Quality of service) setup so that my router prioritize all Internet traffic other than BT, so in my case I get good ping even though I am heavily downloading.

But...net neutrality, man!  You packet discriminator!

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Makerz
Join Date 04/2009
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Reply #8 June 9, 2009 5:11:54 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Sim speed is a good and doable idea.

 

The DL/UP of their connection isn't. Gonna force them all to run speed tests b 4 they connect? Eh don't think many people would enjoy that.

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tazgecko
Join Date 05/2008
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Reply #9 June 9, 2009 5:15:11 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

 

Ah ...I usally turn off my torrents/downloads when i play.

In that case all bandwidth should be shown.

A good idea AnnihilatorX

 

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Reply #10 June 9, 2009 5:24:43 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Quoting InfiniteVengeance,
reply 7

I have QoS (Quality of service) setup so that my router prioritize all Internet traffic other than BT, so in my case I get good ping even though I am heavily downloading.
But...net neutrality, man!  You packet discriminator!

 

LOL but my home network is not part of the public Internet yet

Everyone should do it. It helps so much on regular internet browsing speed if you share a house with someone else especially and someone is a heavy downloader. It doesn't change the speed of BT at all (web traffic doesn't really use much bandwidth, and BT does not mind ping issues)

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AnnihilatorX
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Reply #11 June 9, 2009 5:25:52 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Quoting Makerz,
reply 8
Sim speed is a good and doable idea.

 

The DL/UP of their connection isn't. Gonna force them all to run speed tests b 4 they connect? Eh don't think many people would enjoy that.

 

I'd think hardly anyone would notice. If done properly it'd be transparent to the user anyway. If small packet is used, it won't be that accurate but it certainly won't take a long time.

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InfiniteVengeance
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Reply #12 June 9, 2009 5:30:00 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Everyone should do it. It helps so much on regular internet browsing speed if you share a house with someone else especially and someone is a heavy downloader.

Especially if you don't tell them you're doing it.

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Reply #13 June 9, 2009 5:34:20 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Quoting InfiniteVengeance,
reply 12

Everyone should do it. It helps so much on regular internet browsing speed if you share a house with someone else especially and someone is a heavy downloader.
Especially if you don't tell them you're doing it.

I did tell them. The only reply I got was:

"QoS WTF is that, go away you geek"

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cornuu
Join Date 05/2009
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Reply #14 June 9, 2009 5:48:05 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

/signed

good idea

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drugfreeboy
Join Date 05/2009
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Reply #15 June 9, 2009 6:55:25 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

sounds like an idea the devs should consider!

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Trigeminal
Join Date 07/2008
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Reply #16 June 21, 2009 10:04:32 AM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

This definately should be looked at!!!

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Waltz_with_Basher
Join Date 06/2009
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Reply #17 June 21, 2009 10:25:40 AM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Sounds like a good plan to me.

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AnnihilatorX
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Reply #18 June 21, 2009 12:23:12 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

So SD where are you please :/ Frogboy?

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woppin
Join Date 02/2008
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Reply #19 June 21, 2009 12:32:30 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Tis the weekend?

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Sly_Squash
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Reply #20 June 21, 2009 6:33:30 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Quoting ,
quoting post

Longest information route time (ping) between any two hosts, if so which two.

This is my favorite.  An excellent idea.  At least give this.

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XaviorsFist
Join Date 12/2008
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Reply #21 June 21, 2009 7:01:11 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

I say this is a great idea. But that connection index may not be a good indicator. What if someones sim speed (hypothetically) is -10 yet their ping is 10 and their bandwidth is REALLY high. This may be able to bump them down to a good connection index just into the good range when they will lag the game like crazy. I'd say put a connection index to the worst thing. Lets say -10 sim speed is a 0 on a scale of 0 to 1000 and 0 sim speed would be 500. Then for ping 250 could be 500 500 could be 0 and could be 1000. And take the lowest because an average won't do any good. Cause if you take taht amazing ping 0 which would be 1000 points add it to the 1000 for bandwidth then add it to -10 sim speed you get 2000 out of 3000 which would seem like a good connection for a game. 2/3 of the way from Unbearable lag to best possible connection while you really would make the lag pretty unbearable.

This may be kind of confusing please post to tell me what to clarify.

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Reply #22 June 21, 2009 7:11:43 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Quoting XaviorsFist,
reply 21
I say this is a great idea. But that connection index may not be a good indicator. What if someones sim speed (hypothetically) is -10 yet their ping is 10 and their bandwidth is REALLY high. This may be able to bump them down to a good connection index just into the good range when they will lag the game like crazy. I'd say put a connection index to the worst thing. Lets say -10 sim speed is a 0 on a scale of 0 to 1000 and 0 sim speed would be 500. Then for ping 250 could be 500 500 could be 0 and could be 1000. And take the lowest because an average won't do any good. Cause if you take taht amazing ping 0 which would be 1000 points add it to the 1000 for bandwidth then add it to -10 sim speed you get 2000 out of 3000 which would seem like a good connection for a game. 2/3 of the way from Unbearable lag to best possible connection while you really would make the lag pretty unbearable.

This may be kind of confusing please post to tell me what to clarify.

 

Sure. My formula was just a rough idea of what an index can show. The sim speed require probably exponential penalties down at negative end. Bandwidth also require a threshold against minimum requirement versus number of players.

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XaviorsFist
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Reply #23 June 28, 2009 6:54:31 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Shameless bump.

Yeah i know that your formula was rough i was just pointing things out in case you didn't notice. But i still say that all it takes is one thing. If that is below a certain threshold have something that says something like medium lag or high lag depending on how far out of that threshold it is. And sim speed would need a record. Becuase it isn't very cpu intensive just to run a lobby. Maybe have it log a few games and have it compare the lowest points on a certain map. Say their sim speed is -5 on mandala yet 6 on crucible. That would need to be said.

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