Milskidasith

Join Date 05/2009

Queen of Thorns Shambler Mulching

I know it's a good strategy; stay in one lane, shield and AA people away, and mulch in another to get all the EXP/Gold. But I had a match recently where the enemy QoT simply stayed at the health crystal and sent a constant wave of shamblers to where our creeps met (on Cataract) and blew all of them up, every time. She was overlevelled, her teammates were somewhat underlevelled, but without our creeps the enemies had a big creepy meatshield to kill the towers (well, it didn't help that our Reg was AFK half the time and throwing mines anywhere he could the other half, and our rook was the kind of dumb rook who runs away while being hit in a 6 tower farm). So in the end, we lost.

But honestly, does that really make any sense? The QoT can stand at her mana crystal the entire game and out-level two demigods who were actually out doing something. It's like Regulus mana-crystal sniping, except it works well. The QoT only ever left early game, before she got mulch, and occasionally to capture flags (she had a swift anklet as a favor item, and with shield she was unkillable as long as she ran).

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Pretty hilarious. Sounds boring for both sides. My guess is that it won't turn out to be a very good strategy in the long run.

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This sounds more like your botch than their success, tbh. You admit 2 of your three team were horrific, and that's going to sela the deal in any match. I can't imagine this working in a real match.

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Quoting TormakSaber,

reply 2

This sounds more like your botch than their success, tbh. You admit 2 of your three team were horrific, and that's going to sela the deal in any match. I can't imagine this working in a real match.

I don't see how it wouldn't work; I admit we did badly, but she could easily shield + AA any of us well enough to harrass, and her shamblers can, as soon as they can be mulched, blow up all the creeps 100% of the time.

It might not work, but it is definitely an odd strategy. Of course, it would underlevel the other DGs, so I guess an early push could counter it.

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Interesting. I generally like General strategies (zing!) that use minions. This reminds me of the strat where Oak just sends all his Spirits to attack the citadel all the time. Quirky, but I suspect in the end, it will fail once someone figures out what you are on about.

As to this situation, I could theory craft it, but I'd likely just need to fight it myself first to really know what to do. She still has to level up a bit as normal first, for instance.

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Levelling up a bit first isn't tough considering shield makes her pretty amazing lategame.

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I don't see how this could work unless QoT had already out level her ally before she perform this trick.

Mulch doesn't become effective until 2nd level, and that's already late mid game. Same with number of shamblers QoT can have out at a time. Also that creeps isn't nearly as effective for exp anymore at that level unless you get exp bonus from citadel and exp favor item.

There is also the map travel time for the shambler. Not to mention other DG killing the shambler first.

BUT, I haven't try it, so my opinion might change after I try it.

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Quoting Fhoeng,

reply 6

I don't see how this could work unless QoT had already out level her ally.

Mulch doesn't become effective until 2nd level, and that's already late mid game. Same with number of shamblers QoT can have out at a time. Also that creeps isn't nearly as effective for exp anymore at that level unless you get exp bonus from citadel and exp favor item.

There is also the map travel time for the shambler. Not to mention other DG killing the shambler first.

BUT, I haven't try it, so my opinion might change after I try it.

There was just a constant stream of shambler's; more than enough to meet up with the waves. Killing shamblers could work, but it would be a tremendous waste of time. QoT was still sometimes doing things; she TP'd in and shielded allies, ninja'd flags, etc, but her EXP came from destroying our creeps with shamblers.

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Ah, that made more sense. I thought she was just sitting next to crystal 24/7.

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I can't see this being quite as effective on bigger maps, Cataract is pretty compact.

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This is quite possibly the most amusing strategy I have seen to date, and I'm saddened to say that I doubt it will continue to work as effectively as it did in the game you played against her.

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Quoting pseudomelon,

reply 10

This is quite possibly the most amusing strategy I have seen to date, and I'm saddened to say that I doubt it will continue to work as effectively as it did in the game you played against her.

In the beta, some people tried to play general like a RTS as it was advertised, by sending "only" minions to fight.

I used to play like that too, until gpg/stardock said that they won't make any changes to demigod on general gameplay. I just cease to think demigod as RTS and stop playing it like one too

Maybe this is what took root by still wanting this game to be a RTS.

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It was no imba QoT... you just sucked and i will tell you why.

First she needs got be level 10 for mulch 2 because mulch 1 does far too less dmg to kill even Minotaurs.

Second... if she does it all the time, why don't you just walk behind the creeps and kill the shamblers?

Third... if she does shield the allys and cap flags, he/she must have good micro and if 2 of you suck... well do you want a free win?

When she was all the time at the crystal and you aren't able to push in a 3on2 its lack of skill and not lack of balance or gamedesign.

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First she needs got be level 10 for mulch 2 because mulch 1 does far too less dmg to kill even Minotaurs.

True, but still, level 10 isn't terribly hard to reach.

Second... if she does it all the time, why don't you just walk behind the creeps and kill the shamblers?

Because I'm sure my time is best spent being hit by a shielded QoT's AA's while I try to kill ~1k hp shamblers that give me no experience instead of capping flags or trying to get my horrible team in gear.

Third... if she does shield the allys and cap flags, he/she must have good micro and if 2 of you suck... well do you want a free win?

Err... what? Good micro? The game doesn't *require* micro. It's as simple as "Shield. Send shamblers. Seven seconds later: Shield. Mulch." It really isn't complicated. And what the fuck are you talking about, do I want a free win? I never said I expected to win anywhere; considering my teammates were horrible and I just barely kept a positive K/D ratio, why would I? I'm just mentioning a strategy, not saying that it's OP or I should have won.

When she was all the time at the crystal and you aren't able to push in a 3on2 its lack of skill and not lack of balance or gamedesign.

No, that's not the issue. It's not that they won. I never even mentioned that I cared about that. Your assumptions that I suck and think I should have gotten to win are making you come off as a jackass. The thing is, it is bad design to let a QoT be able to get all the gold and EXP from creeps while being elsewhere. Even if it is played in a "normal" way, a shielded QoT can farm two lanes at once by being in one and hitting another. It also seems weird considering all other minion related kills get you gold but not experience unless you actually have LoS. Otherwise, Oak's would be sending their spirits flying about, killing creeps for EXP while he sat at a safe-ish distance.

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Quoting Milskidasith,

reply 13

First she needs got be level 10 for mulch 2 because mulch 1 does far too less dmg to kill even Minotaurs.

True, but still, level 10 isn't terribly hard to reach.

Well if you consider the fact that she's probably sending out more than 1 shambler at a time to explode...

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Games are usually won or lost by level 10 and if not soon there after. A losing strategy needs no counter since it is a losing strategy...Just take down all the towers take all the flags and see how her shamblers enjoy 4 portals of giants coming at them.

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It also seems weird considering all other minion related kills get you gold but not experience unless you actually have LoS. Otherwise, Oak's would be sending their spirits flying about, killing creeps for EXP while he sat at a safe-ish distance.

You probably should've started the thread with this as it seems it is the core of your concern. I think in the beginning you too much emphasis on how a QoT could just hang out at the crystal, when you seemed to present almost as an afterthought that the one you played against in fact didn't just hang back at the crystal the entire game. At least, I think that is why some posters are reacting to this as a bit of a whine thread.

As a side note, is there some way for generals to teleport without taking their minions with them (that I have been overlooking all the time I have been playing)?

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Quoting SetarcosNous,

reply 16

As a side note, is there some way for generals to teleport without taking their minions with them (that I have been overlooking all the time I have been playing)?

No there isn't... but in a way yes, there is. You just need cloak of night, warp stone, elven cloak to continuously teleport so called.

Utterly pointless though.

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It sounds like a pretty awful strategy if someone on your team had decent AOE.. just aoe their creep wave and push towers in the absence of 1 DG. Also.. QoT is very easy to gank.. and she doesn't really have much to save her from the 2v1.. probably only the teleport cloak. So if she ninjas a flag just double teleport in and kill her. Then take her downtime to push towers. A little more teamwork and communication would win the day.

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Err... what? QoT has shield. Shield + running = safe QoT.

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