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lethstang
lethstang
Join Date 07/2006
+2

general oak vs assassin oak

July 10, 2009 9:53:12 AM from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Im an avid oak player.  Ive played both specs and id like to discuss my conclusion.

Assassin oak is almost in every situation more effective than general oak.

Ive played oak going full morale with minions, as well as penitence instead.  the problem i run into is squishiness.  the game turns into me sending my minions around, but as soon as the dg catches up to my oak im cat meat. a dg is really only getting to get tore up by your minions if he stands still, if not he will just outrun them.  Erubus as a general is far more effective due to bite and regen which allows him to tank the opposing DG, allowing his minions to bring the pain.  Oak doesnt have that luxury.

What Id like here is to hear your opinions on my conclusion, and maybe give me some pointers if theres something i havent considered.  I really would like to have two specs to pick from .  as it is right now, when i go general the game is much , much harder. 

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lethstang
Daikaze
Join Date 02/2008
+3
Reply #1 July 10, 2009 10:37:34 AM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

For me the minion Oak and Assassin Oak are pretty much the same. I get my minions, my soul power, penitence, and everything else is just fluff.

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lethstang
transitive
Join Date 03/2007
+66
Reply #2 July 10, 2009 10:51:26 AM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

you could conceivably take minion skill points but still use tank gear. nobody said you're obligated to go with minion damage gear just because you took Raise Dead Wards. 

 

the bigger issue i usually have isn't squishiness but mana management. Oak's natural mana pool is incredibly shallow. its really problematic to find enough mana for both Penitence and Minion stuff so usually you can't get Penitence and Minions at the same time without relying heavily on mana potions. 

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lethstang
RapierX
Join Date 02/2008
+2
Reply #3 July 10, 2009 11:16:44 AM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

If you aren't geared towards minions, meaning morale and minion boosting gear, you aren't really a 'minion oak' - you just have spirits.

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lethstang
Zygwen
Join Date 06/2007
+4
Reply #4 July 10, 2009 11:27:16 AM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Quoting Daikaze,
reply 1
For me the minion Oak and Assassin Oak are pretty much the same. I get my minions, my soul power, penitence, and everything else is just fluff.

My Oak is similar except my main skill is Surge of Faith instead of Penitence.

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lethstang
Daikaze
Join Date 02/2008
+3
Reply #5 July 10, 2009 11:36:33 AM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Quoting RapierX,
reply 3
If you aren't geared towards minions, meaning morale and minion boosting gear, you aren't really a 'minion oak' - you just have spirits.

Huh? I normally get minions and Hauberk of Life (+minion health helps) and focus primarily on Spirits, but I don't waste the points on an ability like Morale. I think the only character that I have a build involving Morale is for QoT, but it's an unusual build. A "minion Oak" is an Oak that emphasizes minions, and if Spirit Ward is your primary skill then how would you not be a "minion Oak?"

 

Taking Morale doesn't make anyone a "minion" anything ( ). Taking Morale is usually one of the worst options available in this game as it rarely makes up for what could have been taken. Granted, there are some rare builds that can make use of it, but it's still not that great.

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lethstang
lifekatana
Join Date 05/2008
+18
Reply #6 July 10, 2009 11:44:44 AM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Blashemy! Morale is a very usefull ability.

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lethstang
XX-99
Join Date 01/2009
+1
Reply #7 July 10, 2009 11:46:24 AM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

I don't have any online play under my belt (invalid pasword/username for two months (wasn't given my email password by the people who set it up for meso i can't send emails))

but the build I have the most sucess with is

Sheild (lvl 3), Penitence (lvl 4), Surge of Faith, Soul power, Divine Justice, Dead Ward (lvl 4) Last Stand (in case my teleport while under shield gets interrupted) Favor item: Amulet of Teleportation. Put the rest into last stand 2, or morale.

I don't always follow an exact process of skill selection, I just pick what feels right at the time...

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lethstang
lethstang
Join Date 07/2006
+2
Reply #8 July 10, 2009 12:32:29 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

i agree with what someone said earlier (im the OP btw) about just because youre going minion you cant get tank gear. I agree with that, and i get the minion armor and usually have a large health pool.  The problem is by going minion, you forego the use of shield which really lessens your staying power, you lose your oh shit button.  maybe ill try a build with one point of pen, no morale, and max shield and see where that goes. 

 

oh i should add this is such a big deal.  you really need to take advantage of your huge auto attack for this guy and to do that you need to be able to tank.

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lethstang
RapierX
Join Date 02/2008
+2
Reply #9 July 10, 2009 1:24:38 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Quoting lifekatana,
reply 6
Blashemy! Morale is a very usefull ability.

Most people seem to underestimate it's potency as evidenced here.

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lethstang
ItchyDustbin
Join Date 04/2009
+8
Reply #10 July 10, 2009 2:39:40 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Assassin Oak is maybe going to get you kills, General Oak is going to win you the match faster.

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lethstang
Teseer
Join Date 02/2008
+60
Reply #11 July 10, 2009 2:49:37 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Minion builds period need to be looked at. Viable or not, they make for a very unfun game for the other side. 

Where is the fun in killing minions all game? 

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lethstang
ItchyDustbin
Join Date 04/2009
+8
Reply #12 July 10, 2009 4:34:31 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Quoting Teseer,
reply 11
Minion builds period need to be looked at. Viable or not, they make for a very unfun game for the other side. 

Where is the fun in killing minions all game? 

 

Where's the fun in killing creeps or towers all game? etc.

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lethstang
Krazikarl
Join Date 03/2006
+24
Reply #13 July 10, 2009 4:41:21 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

You derive some benefit from killing creeps and towers.  You are either opening up real estate and thus getting closer to ending the game, or getting gold/xp and thus getting closer to ending the game.  Killing minions feels like and is a complete waste of time.  You get nothing.  Thats the problem with minion builds - the can force the other team to just waste time killing stupid minions.

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lethstang
StiL ReY
Join Date 04/2009
+1
Reply #14 July 10, 2009 4:54:19 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Minion Oak dominates Assassin Oak.

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lethstang
Enraged_Camel
Join Date 04/2009
+6
Reply #15 July 10, 2009 5:48:15 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Not necessarily, no. Most assassin oaks also have spirits for the passive damage bonus.

When I play assassin oak, I send my spirits back to base so they don't keep getting killed. I then run around the map raping everything and everyone.

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lethstang
lethstang
Join Date 07/2006
+2
Reply #16 July 10, 2009 5:57:28 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

camel, what is your skill build? how many raise dead? ive found mixing assassin oak and minion oak doesnt work well, as assassin spams pen and surge for his dps, not much white dmg. 

 

stil rey good to see you again.  who do you know plays a mean minion oak that i could talk to?

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lethstang
lethstang
Join Date 07/2006
+2
Reply #17 July 10, 2009 6:00:18 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

hmm, i just thought maybe i could start using hp pots to give me the staying power i need for my minions to work.  its possible ive just not been pplaying him correctly. 

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lethstang
ItchyDustbin
Join Date 04/2009
+8
Reply #18 July 10, 2009 6:02:25 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Quoting lethstang,
reply 17
hmm, i just thought maybe i could start using hp pots to give me the staying power i need for my minions to work.  its possible ive just not been pplaying him correctly. 

 

You should be taking minimal damage as a minion build, or better yet none at all.

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lethstang
MABManZ
Join Date 02/2004
0
Reply #19 July 10, 2009 6:15:19 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

[quote who="NoW^StiL ReY" reply="14" id="2297868"]Minion Oak dominates Assassin Oak.[/quote]

QFT. Less dependant on mana and way more DPS, you just lack a finisher.

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lethstang
Enraged_Camel
Join Date 04/2009
+6
Reply #20 July 10, 2009 6:51:26 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Quoting lethstang,
reply 16
camel, what is your skill build? how many raise dead? ive found mixing assassin oak and minion oak doesnt work well, as assassin spams pen and surge for his dps, not much white dmg. 

One point in shield at the beginning, then max out Raise Dead/Soul Power/Penitence. Also put a few points in Surge if you like creep farming. If the enemy gets giants, get the +10% hp per killing blow skill (forget the name), which will allow you to ride one of your creep waves all the way to their base.

Generally, send all your spirits to your base, then walk around the map with bishops. Swift Anklet + boots of speed, combined with surge, means you'll be able to run away from anything and be able to catch anything, which is huge since your auto-attacks will be doing ~300 or more dmg on most demigods. There's nothing as fun as being a super fast tank that hits like a truck, with a ranged 800dmg + slow ability to boot.

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lethstang
StiL ReY
Join Date 04/2009
+1
Reply #21 July 10, 2009 11:49:22 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

stil rey good to see you again. who do you know plays a mean minion oak that i could talk to?

HIIIIIIIII

And I was just saying from my experience. I've been playing minion Oak for the past couple weeks 

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