sho333

Join Date 05/2009

Sho's Queen of Thorns guide.

A common thread on the strategy boards seems to be frustration with successfully using QOT. To me what makes her frustrating are shamblers. Once you give up on shamblers entirely she can be pretty fun to play. I prefer to use her to support ongoing demigod fights and overall map control. Below is how I attempt to accomplish that.

Skills:

1. Bramble Shield I

2. Ground spikes I

3. Save

4. Ground spikes II, Bramble Shield II

5. Spike Wave I

6. Save

7. Ground spikes II, Bramble Shield II

8. Save

9. Save

10. Ground spikes III, Bramble Shield III, Spike Wave II.

11+ whatever you want getting goddes of thorns and wave III at 15...

Items:

Favor: Amulet of teleportation. This is key! I'm not even gonna bother mentioning other viable options, to me this is a must have for queen. To support fights you need to be able to reach them quickly. You can defend flags and join fights consistently all game long with amulet.

1. Totem of Revelation + monks.

2. Banded armor + Scaled helm

3. Unbreakable boots

4. Vlemish faceguard

5. Nimoth's chest or Hauberk of life, either is good.

6. Upgrade monks to bishops.

You are set for the rest of the game.

Playstyle:

When possible don't tank! Yes queen tanks great, but this build has far less health and +health then most everyone else will, you will eventually get worn down. If the enemy has blood lust for you pull off and let an ally tank whenever possible. Generally you want to keep shield up on your ally and use ground spike when left alone. Teleport in on any unmanned flags being captured by the enemy. Teleport in on any ongoing fight to shield + spike. Only come out of flower form if you are NOT being attacked... Use spikes to level whenever left alone, but do not leave flower otherwise. A queen out of flower is a red flag to the enemy. With two mana helms you should have plenty of mana to keep cranking out shields and spikes. Keep an eye on the entire map at all times as teleports HEAVILY effect the outcome of the game. This is a nice simple playstyle designed around dominating warscore and overall map generalship. It's not meant to generate demigod kills so don't even worry about that. Kills and assists happen naturally when you control the map anyways. Give it a shot if you are frustrated with queen, let me know what you think

Sho

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Hi Sho,

Thanks for this. I just started playing QoT, and your build is similar to mine. It's a balanced, non-minion build which mixes defense with some offense and which I think provides good support for a team with heavy-hitting demigods. The only thing that I would suggest adding to your build is Shambler (lvl 1 only) and Mulch Shambler (upgrade as needed). The shambler is more for eating than fighting and does some AoE damage when eaten. I would also get the swift anklet (for quicker getaways and fast support for front-line melee allies) instead of the teleport, which you can get as scrolls.

P.S. I have learned that there are a lot of naysayers out there who either haven't seen QoT played effectively or have failed to do so themselves. So don't be surprised if they show up in this thread shortly. Anyhow, good job.

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Good guide. Maybe upgrade Scaled to Plenor at some point? And banded to nimoth/hauberk- whichever is left. I play Queen basically the same way although I usually get swift anklet / cloak of night. I'll try the teleporting strat though it sounds good.

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Quoting the_hunger,

reply 1

Hi Sho,

Thanks for this. I just started playing QoT, and your build is similar to mine. It's a balanced, non-minion build which mixes defense with some offense and which I think provides good support for a team with heavy-hitting demigods. The only thing that I would suggest adding to your build is Shambler (lvl 1 only) and Mulch Shambler (upgrade as needed). The shambler is more for eating than fighting and does some AoE damage when eaten. I would also get the swift anklet (for quicker getaways and fast support for front-line melee allies) instead of the teleport, which you can get as scrolls.

P.S. I have learned that there are a lot of naysayers out there who either haven't seen QoT played effectively or have failed to do so themselves. So don't be surprised if they show up in this thread shortly. Anyhow, good job.

I don't get them because I don't tank. Monks/bishops takes care of health regen when i'm hurt. On the occasions I'm forced to tank spamming shield is usually enough. Taking anklet or any other favor item is definitely viable, but not at all what this guide is written to illustrate. Thanks for the feedback though, this guide is just one playstyle of course.

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When I play QoT I play her in a similar fashion with exception to some of the items.

What do you guys think?

favor: teleport - it saves me so much $ in scrolls haha.

I won't buy anything at the start and will save $ for high priests with intent to upgrade to bishops later on.

Then: Vlemish faceguard

If i need a speed boost then Wand of Speed (upgrade to bishops)

Unbreakable boots then plenor or nimoth depending on where the game is at.

for 11+ levels i tend to grab uproot so i can assist with towers

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Quoting jongalt26,

reply 4

When I play QoT I play her in a similar fashion with exception to some of the items.

What do you guys think?

favor: teleport - it saves me so much $ in scrolls haha.

I won't buy anything at the start and will save $ for high priests with intent to upgrade to bishops later on.

Then: Vlemish faceguard

If i need a speed boost then Wand of Speed (upgrade to bishops)

Unbreakable boots then plenor or nimoth depending on where the game is at.

for 11+ levels i tend to grab uproot so i can assist with towers

j

I buy monks more to heal allies then myself. With shield normally you can avoid taking dmg if you want. I'd be a little scared to lose lane presence without them early, but I'll give it a try see how it works. As for items, i'd say any setup that keeps you healthy and mana rich is good. In my experience it's better to get a few cheap items early then to wait, but that's just preference.

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I play queen almost identical to this.

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come on.. .this build is everywhere... except getting totem of reveletion... lol

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Quoting TB_MasteR,

reply 7

come on.. .this build is everywhere... except getting totem of reveletion... lol

Woops, sorry if it's redundant.

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Yeah, you're kinda preaching to the choir here sho. This is the only (semi-)viable build for Queen. The Rune of Teleportation is kind of an interesting variation, but other than that this is pretty much how everyone plays QoT.

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You should consider taking siege idols, and taking a point of morale at 7. Then get shield III when you have more mama items. Then take Shield IV at 11 instead of 10.

Vlemish + Plenor = 42 mana regen at the level when you can usually afford them = staying power since you can shield and spike a few times.

Minion idols (and thus more morale) really make this build viable, because they do good damage following a spike.

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Not sure if threadjackiing here but I find the problem with this kind of build is mid-late game. As Bramble Shield is not effected by the armour you or your allies are wearing the spell becomes less effective as your opponent's autoattack power increases. Bramble shield is awesome early game, good mid game but late game it's not effective for the mana cost when compared to heal especially when fighting autoattack damage heavy demigod like Beast, Erebus, and Sedna.

Mulch Shambler on the other hand puts Sedna's heal spell to shame. Even if you count the mana cost for summon the shambler at Level 1 Summon Shambler and Level 2 Mulch you heal 1500 for 700 mana and do 500 area damage. At level 15 you can get Mulch Shambler 3 which still cost 250 mana and gives you back 2250 hitpoints and does 750 damage. This spell not only let you tanks but gives you you a spamable attacking spell. Also as you put more point into summon shambler the cost per shambler decreases. At 1975 mana you can heal 9000 hitpoints while dealing 3000 points of AOE damage over 28 seconds. For 2250 Mana Sedna can only heal half that and do 600 AOE.

Ground Spikes while a great support spell it isn't so useful when it's just you beating on the opponent. The more auto attack damage you do, the more economical in Mana, Ground Spikes becomes the more damage you can do. By putting minion into your build (The same shambler you will be eating.) you can increase the effectiveness of ground spikes and toughen you up. Combine this with totem minions and you've got quick good DPS which you can use to control flags but more important beat the living crap out towers. By level 5 with 6 level 1 totem minions and two shambler you can easily distroy a tower before the other team has time to teleport in. Which gives you more cash to buy more minions and repeat the process.

The problem with changing the build this way is your no longer a shield spamming support demigod. While you can still spam shield they'll go down to fast to really help you teamates. What you can have to concentrate on is absorbing damage. Most opponent attack the QOT first anyways so it can work but instead of firing from the back you have the be in the front absorbing damage. Also it's a build that attract the "Why didn't you shield me" scream a little to much. But at same time this build turn tower into mush and is more then adequate when fighting 2v2 or 1v1.

Selfish Queen

1.) Bramble Shield

2.) Ground Spikes

3.) Summon Shambler

4.) Ground Spikes

5.) Mulch Shambler

6.) Summon Shambler

7.) Ground Spikes

8.) Summon Shambler

9.) Morale

10.) Mulch Shambler

11.) Ground Spikes

12.) Summon Shambler

13.) Morale

14.) Morale

15.) Mulch Shambler

16.) Morale

17.) Morale

Favor Item :Cloak of Night

Buying Order: Priest 1

Scaled Helm

Siege 1

Minotaurs 1

Scalemail

Banded Armor

Nimoth Chest Armor

Vlemish Faceguard

At this point get these items in whatever order is better for the game.

Priest 4

Siege 4

Minotaur 4

Hauberk of Life

Unbreakable Boots

Game play for the first 5 level play it like every other build. Instead of using using a more powerful Bramble Shield mulch and use Bramble shield (They both have nearly 0 casting time.) While not as mana efficent it will give you 1450 hit points to tank with. Once you reach level 10 Bramble shield becomes much less useful and at level 15 it's basically decorative. Use ground spikes on tower and attack with minions. If the calvary comes to get you jump away and leave the minions to damage the tower. You are your minions friends can be quite hard to move off flags. Since your minion follow you with a teleport scroll go open form teleport to anyone that needs help and drop a Ground Spikes as you teleport in. Mulch a shamber and suddenly your actually ganking people.

Lastily kiting. Kiting is simply the process of running in attacking the opponent until he start to run after you and then running away. Cause you have a range attack you can kite (Although it is much easier with more speed then this build calls for. Combining kitting with sending in your summonable minions give you time to weaken opponent on the flag before you push them off.

Problems:

No interupts (You'll learn to hate teleport scrolls) Spend some time with your good friend Oak, Sedna, Ice TB or anyone that has one. Don't walk around with Regulus if you can avoid it.

Crappy hitpoints cause you put so much money into minions ( For the price of all the level totem you can but alot of nice armour. You can heal quickly and shield well but watch out for Silence and Ice TB's. Buy armour before minion if that your opponent.)

Difficult to kill demigod as you still don't have a good burst attack or any snares (Easier with a friendly other demigod, use Universal Gadget to keep them guess and the Cloak at early levels)

AOE kill your health pots (Put point in Entourage to protect you shambler from those mean old TB's)

Micromangement hell.

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^Shamblers, lol.

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Quoting Scufo,

reply 12

^Shamblers, lol.

Queen of Thorn's LOL.

QoT is far below average as a Demigod Killer and as a Hybrid Demigod/Base killer but she can erode enemy fortifications quite well provided she is not under attack from an enemy demigod.

If you are not on a large map and blessed with a top notch Demigod killer or two...leave her at home.

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Quoting LORD-ORION,

reply 10

You don't really have enough mana at level 7 to take Shield III (I think this is what you mean, even though it says Shield II) to face most good builds... you are going to run out of mana and get kicked out of the lane.

You should consider taking siege idols, and taking a point of morale at 7. Then get shield III when you have more mama items. Then take Shield IV at 11 instead of 10.

Vlemish + Plenor = 42 mana regen at the level when you can usually afford them = staying power since you can shield and spike a few times.

Minion idols (and thus more morale) really make this build viable, because they do good damage following a spike.

I don't notice these issues at all when playing... Even moderate levels of mana management are enough to keep me going fine... Siege idols are great and I often get them, but the build is focused on support. Teleport to engaged allies and support them, not solo a lane. I also tend to spend a lot on citidel when I play queen as I find it has greater returns. Idols are expensive.

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Quoting Bamji,

reply 13

QoT is far below average as a Demigod Killer and as a Hybrid Demigod/Base killer but she can erode enemy fortifications quite well provided she is not under attack from an enemy demigod.

I don't think that she was ever intended for demigod killing or base assaults (notwithstanding Uproot), although she can get her share of assists if played moderately aggressive. She's best at defensive support (shields and debuffing) and mob control (that is, anti-creep/minion AoE attacks).

If you are not on a large map and blessed with a top notch Demigod killer or two...leave her at home.

Agreed, although I'm not sure if map size makes a lot of difference (how is she handicapped on a smaller map, which she could navigate more quickly to support allies?). She pairs well with a UB, Oak, Sedna, or even Rook; not so well with, say, a Regulus or Torchbearer. Two Queens on the same team is a disaster waiting to happen.

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No one complains when they see two queens

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@mrappart : sure bramble shield is not as good as heal late game regarding only HPs, but it also protects you from negative buffs that trigger on hit (you are not hit). Situationnaly, this can be a strong advantage.

edit : I had a game 3v3 with 2 queens on my side and me as UB, it was an easy win : the 2 queens were shielding the one being focus and the opposing team never manage to get a kill.

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The_Hunger

I'm really unsure about that for me the Queen with Ground Spikes (As they effect building armour) you can deal quite a bit of damage when pair with a good auto attack which could be reinforcement or minions. And since she's a general you can walk in with minions to absorb the tower attack while she strikes. By level 2 Ground Spikes the tower can go down extremly fast.

Ese-Ash I don't think that is true for alot of abilities attack abilities as the debuff is often not based on damage (Erebus get's all hit point for example even if your in a bramble sheield.) Heal is certainly superior in that regard as it remove debuff at level 3 regardless of damage source.

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Quoting mrappard,

reply 18

Yeah, she can damage buildings with Ground Spikes, Spike Wave, and auto-attack (I rarely bother with Uproot). However, a strong Ground Spike/Bramble Shield/Spike Wave build, by definition, means a weak, if existent, minion build, at least in the early to mid-game (unless you are talking about foregoing Spike Wave and Bramble Shield, which I think would drastically reduce her survivability). Also, as a base attacker, she is in the somewhat awkward position of having to switch between close/open mode in order to spam shields, ground spikes, and minions. (I really do wish that the switch was faster.)

Yes, you are right that she can be anti-tower; she's just not very efficient at doing so.

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Quoting the_hunger,

reply 19

Quoting mrappard, reply 18I'm really unsure about that for me the Queen with Ground Spikes (As they effect building armour) you can deal quite a bit of damage when pair with a good auto attack which could be reinforcement or minions. And since she's a general you can walk in with minions to absorb the tower attack while she strikes. By level 2 Ground Spikes the tower can go down extremly fast.

Yeah, she can damage buildings with Ground Spikes, Spike Wave, and auto-attack (I rarely bother with Uproot). However, a strong Ground Spike/Bramble Shield/Spike Wave build, by definition, means a weak, if existent, minion build, at least in the early to mid-game (unless you are talking about foregoing Spike Wave and Bramble Shield, which I think would drastically reduce her survivability). Also, as a base attacker, she is in the somewhat awkward position of having to switch between close/open mode in order to spam shields, ground spikes, and minions. (I really do wish that the switch was instant.)

Yes, you are right that she can be anti-tower; she's just not very efficient at doing so.

That really isn't true hunter. She can pretty much put up shield deflower ground spike and auto attack down a tower with relative ease.

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@Sho333

Even if you are talking about a late-game queen with decent health, buffed minions, and abundant mana, she will have to switch back-and-forth between modes, wait for ability cooldowns, and hope that no one is watching. Perhaps I am confused by what you mean by "with relative ease." Anyhow, just the math of it is against her, especially in the early to mid-game. A basic archer tower has 3000 hps; a light/dark tower has 5600 hps. Level 1 spikes do 250 damage; level 2 does 375; level 3 does 500; and level 4 does 625. I'm not sure what a light/dark tower does in damage, but I would guess that it's in the range of 400-500 dps (thus a fully upgraded Bramble Shield could take about 3 shots). Even if you threw in some shamblers and priests for healing, she's going to have to work on the tower for a few moments, going back-and-forth between modes and cooldowns. Yes, she can do it--I've done it on a number of occasions. But she's certainly not among the best demigods for doing so, considering the needed investment of time, effort, and her vulnerability as a very mana-dependent, low-hitpoint demigod.

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Quoting the_hunger,

reply 21

@Sho333

Even if you are talking about a late-game queen with decent health, buffed minions, and abundant mana, she will have to switch back-and-forth between modes, wait for ability cooldowns, and hope that no one is watching. Perhaps I am confused by what you mean by "with relative ease." Anyhow, just the math of it is against her, especially in the early to mid-game. A basic archer tower has 3000 hps; a light/dark tower has 5600 hps. Level 1 spikes do 250 damage; level 2 does 375; level 3 does 500; and level 4 does 625. I'm not sure what a light/dark tower does in damage, but I would guess that it's in the range of 400-500 dps (thus a fully upgraded Bramble Shield could take about 3 shots). Even if you threw in some shamblers and priests for healing, she's going to have to work on the tower for a few moments, going back-and-forth between modes. Yes, she can do it--I've done it on a number of occasions. But she's certainly not among the best demigods for doing so, considering the needed investment of time, effort, and her vulnerability as a very mana-dependent, low-hitpoint demigod.

I dunno what to say, I'm stating my opinion based on my experience, I can't really debate the numbers. Generally by level 4 you can take down a tower in 1-2 creep waves without much trouble, assuming you are left alone of course...

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Sho333 is right

If Grounds Spikes did zero damage it would still be great for taking down towers. It's not the damage that matter but the fact it buffs everyone elses damages by lower building armour. Walk up with a creep wave with priest, minotaurs and siege archers and use ground spikes so everyone deal more damage. You can use Bramble shield if you have to but the minions absorb damage better then shield does. Also use it to kill any creep wave that comes up to yours creeps. The tower go down amazingly well as the queen and I often take down the first 6 towers on Cataract before level 7 (The sides towers the center tower and the arrow tower behind them.) if my team is pushing for a early win.

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Quoting mrappard,

reply 23

Sho333 is right

If Grounds Spikes did zero damage it would still be great for taking down towers. It's not the damage that matter but the fact it buffs everyone else damages by lower building armour. Walk up with a creep wave with priest, minotaurs and siege archers and use ground spikes so everyone deal more damage. You can use Bramble shield if you have to but the minions absorb damage better then shield does. Also use it to kill any creep wave that comes up to yours creeps. The tower go down amazingly well as the queen and I often take down the first 6 towers on Cataract before level 7 (The sides towers the center tower and the arrow tower behind them.) if my team is pushing for a early win.

Okay, I suppose I didn't figure in the creep wave's impact. I was thinking of the trouble that she often has with just shamblers, which sometimes fail to cooperate regarding pathing and attack angles. Yes, I definitely know that a creep wave with priests, minotaurs, and siege archers can help take down a tower promptly. However, this would be true for most any demigod with this kind of suppport (though the debuffed armor in no doubt helpful).

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Quoting Scufo,

reply 9

Two things:

1. Sho is a very good QoT player, definitely the best I've played against.

2. I play QoT completely different and would consider my build at least viable. I'm not great with her, but she is the Queen after all...

Third thing:

3. Did someone post a build with Shamblers!? You obviously don't know so I'll tell you what most people do know, Shamblers = Worthless. The only (semi) viable way to use shamblers is to leave them in your base and mulch them. You ever notice how QoT looks like she's taking a dump when she summons them? Well, the animation is an accurate one.

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