gkrit

Join Date 01/2009

+32

Equip Balance Overview

I feel as if equipment balancing is overlooked. The only equip change that took place that i can remember (but there may be a few more) is Heart of life, which was moved to the artifacts section. It was changed coz it was uber OP, fair enough. But there are also MANY equips that are pointless in even investing in just because their stats are of no great effect nor efficiency.

What im asking is for some changes in these redundent equips. And what im asking for cant be so time consuming anyway coz im guessing all thats needed to be done is some figure changing.

im talking about equips like...

Gladiator Gloves (not effective early game, no use late game)
Gauntlets of Despair
Plate Visor (35% wtf? at leat make it 80-100% mana regen)
Theurgists Cap
Footmans Sabatons (just so useless wat about +5% movement speed also)
Ironwalkers (why are the passive stats minions based?)

How many ppl have even considered to buy these items?

I not only believe these are redundent items but others are too costly for what they give.

Duelists Cuirass -- (nimoths still beats it and its half the price. for the sake of a 5% chance of dealing 1.5x critical ... 1700 more gold is not worth your while. also take into consideration that duelists gives lower armor than nimoths, so hmmmm....)
Armor of Vengeance -- (the dmg reflection rlly isnt that great. Increase the dmg reflected to 45dmg maybe...?)
Ironwalkers -- (so circumstantial, give a passive benefit)
Natures Reckoning -- (im not paying that much for it to take a slot in my inventory)
Bloodstone Ring -- (theres vampiric on this ring???)
Ring of the Ancients -- (for 3500 gold? ... make it 3000 plz)
Warp Stone -- (i dont think many ppl have even bothered to look at this one ... unless they on crucible)

there have been a few posts on this sort of stuff but i thought id bring it back.

demigod

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I feel as if equipment balancing is overlooked.

Compared to what? Balance issues in general haven't been addressed in quite a while and they weren't exactly broad and sweeping on the demigod-specific front in the last round, either.

But yeah. Plenty of garbage equipment to go around. That's for sure.

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Surely you mean plate visor not scaled helm? scaled helm is a useful first item until you com eback for first shop visit

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Scaled helm is a great choice for starting gear.

Duelists Cuirass is a great 2nd armor piece in addition to Nimoth's. It's a good mid-lategame upgrade for Hauberk of Life for tank builds, especially when things are close.

-- Tukulis

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I agree with the general idea; some of the items are simply inferior to the other items. The problem comes with the "Horses for Courses" thinking behind some of them simply because of how effective HP stacking is. Just throwing on a boot load of HP works in pretty much every situation as a basic solution, and because of this the other items simply aren't as appealing. It's not always the ideal solution - I find with some Demigods, like LE, that stacking Mana creates a far more effective Demigod on the field, you just have to play a little more cautious.

What needs to happen is that the base chance rate of the additional effects needs to be raised while the item's cost needs to be brought into check. This would create the situation as intended; do I grab HP, Mana and some Armour or less HP, Mana and Armour BUT with much better chance to deal a critical?

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I don't support increasing the effectiveness of crit gear at all. Fights can already end in just a few moments, especially in 3v3s and up. Even my 2v2 setup can burst for well over 3k damage inside a single stun.

If you increase the proc rates and decrease the cost of offensive items you'll shorten fights on two fronts. The obvious one is that damage will be higher and the other is that players will tend to have less HP as they try to compete in the arms race.

I say leave the offensive stats pretty much as-is and boost the defensive qualities of those items. Duelist's Cuirass may have subpar numbers, but it's a good example of how it should work. The artifacts tend to pull it off quite well, with each offensive item tending to offer healing (life steal), regen, HP, or some other endurance property.

I agree many items aren't valuable enough, but shortening combat and increasing autoattack damage is going to help the characters which are already the most popular and leave others who tend to underperform in the dust.

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Agrree! Although to make these items more attractive make the better ones MORE expensive....

This game has about a 1% chance of a comeback once the other team has 5 kills or so over yours, because theres damage artifacts that just cannot be countered effectively.

Something I think would be a good idea woulb be the option to trade gold to a teammate, or make the shop a bank where u can drop say that 1000g your ally needs to gear for the counter to a fed dg. You can already do this in a roudabout way by dropping something valuable for them to sell, so how about the ability to drop gold?

Scaled helm is a good item IMHO.

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Natures Reckoning is good item...i use him any game.....like a crit gloves.

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Nature's Reckoning is a good suff on fast attacking builds (especially good with UB, that has inner beast).

It also has +600 mana bonus and is not too high priced.

I use it with UB.

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Theurgist's Cap is not redundant. It's the cheapest item that boost both HP and Mana regen. It's the only item that can decrease opponents HP and Mana regen. Finally, the hp and hp regen boost for minions is useful for minion builds.

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I agree with the idea of this thread but several items listed I use in certain circumstances, specifically armor of vengence for my anti minion UB build (ooze + the reflect is rediculous). I also use skaled helm and bloodstone ring in my life steal rook build.

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Plate visor is good on maps with +mana/sScaled helm is useful on others.

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Forget discussing bout blance. GPG wont change ti. also Frogboy said in his new Journal entry, that Demigod is well balanced so all hope is gone. I will never in my life buy again a game for 50€. It was a huge mistake.

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Quoting jongalt26,

reply 11

Plate visor is good on maps with +mana/sScaled helm is useful on others.

j

Scaled helm gives +4 mana per second. In order to get that from +35% you would need to be having a base MPS regen of ~11.4. Scaled helm ALSO gives 525 mana raw though, which is worth a fair deal, often more than the +4 mps is (takes ~131 seconds of regen from the helm to get that much).

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Quoting Zechnophobe,

reply 13

Scaled helm gives +4 mana per second. In order to get that from +35% you would need to be having a base MPS regen of ~11.4.

Base mana regeneration on Leviathan ranges from about 17.5 to 18.5, depending on the DG. That amount increases by level, so if you're going to be in the field for a good 3-5 minutes before you plan on shopping (which is quite possible since there's a health regen flag) it's really pretty good.

Now the problem of course is that the second tier helm you get is definitely going to be %mana on a flag like that so the balance swings back in scaled's favor after that point, but still the item itself isn't that bad and it does have a small niche.

Adding just 200-400 mana to the plate visor would go a long way.

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I have to say that I would rather have balanced Demigods than balanced items. Because everyone can use each item while not everyone has an attack as powerful as foul grasp at level 5.

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Foul grasp is more useful as a stun than a damage IMHO. your basic ub Melee will deal more damage than it. I find it most useful/devastating when the enemy tries to flee a gang or behind a tower.

UB runs from my TB on almost every game uless he's got help on the way.

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Quoting XaviorsFist,

reply 15

I have to say that I would rather have balanced Demigods than balanced items. Because everyone can use each item while not everyone has an attack as powerful as foul grasp at level 5.

im quite happy with the balancing of the demigods right now APART FROM qot and her uselessness (but thats a whole problem in itself).

but rlly ... theres is no doubt that some equips NEED to be changed. Useless items in shop are just annoying fluff. Theres no use for them and no one uses them, they may as well not be in the game at all.

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Quoting JuareZz,

reply 12

STFU

Now back to the post at hand. Why is everyone complaining about balance? There has been at least 1 thread on this created every two days. Just leave it alone for goodness sake and talk about something else

You wonder why developers dont hurry up and make changes? They are it just takes more than a couple of wet weekends to create a new patch. Especially when all they ever hear from there community are trolls who sit and complain about how bad the game is yet spend their entire afternoon online.

Internet gives you the freedom of speech however freedom of speech does not give you the right to complain every open moment. Give it time and GPG and Stardock may just fix some of these flaws.

Rant over

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You will not complain about balance if you play: Erebus, Sedna, UB or Oak.

If you think the balance is okay then please play the other 4 Demigods against good teams and you'll see what I mean.

In the 5 months since release we only had 3 balance improvements (Bite nerf, HoL nerf, more Priest XP). Two of them were basically changing numbers in the right .lua script, something that can be done in approximately 1 minute. Please correct me if I'm wrong!

Why were there no more improvements? Plenty of suggestions here on the forums. Plenty of information in the raw numbers (win/loss ratios etc.).

We just want the game to be better!

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i belive once 1.2 is released anything that isn't quite balanced will be covered by modders

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Quoting _Golgoth_,

reply 18

Quoting JuareZz, reply 12Forget discussing bout blance. GPG wont change ti. also Frogboy said in his new Journal entry, that Demigod is well balanced so all hope is gone. I will never in my life buy again a game for 50€. It was a huge mistake.

STFU

Now back to the post at hand. Why is everyone complaining about balance? There has been at least 1 thread on this created every two days. Just leave it alone for goodness sake and talk about something else

You wonder why developers dont hurry up and make changes? They are it just takes more than a couple of wet weekends to create a new patch. Especially when all they ever hear from there community are trolls who sit and complain about how bad the game is yet spend their entire afternoon online.

Internet gives you the freedom of speech however freedom of speech does not give you the right to complain every open moment. Give it time and GPG and Stardock may just fix some of these flaws.

Rant over

I bet the new patch wont change balance. frogboy said this in the Jounral entry. I mean why not? the game is partically ridiculous balanced. I play it often on a LAN and even the other noobs see this.

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Quoting CosMoe,

reply 19

You will not complain about balance if you play: Erebus, Sedna, UB or Oak.

If you think the balance is okay then please play the other 4 Demigods against good teams and you'll see what I mean.

In the 5 months since release we only had 3 balance improvements (Bite nerf, HoL nerf, more Priest XP). Two of them were basically changing numbers in the right .lua script, something that can be done in approximately 1 minute. Please correct me if I'm wrong!

Why were there no more improvements? Plenty of suggestions here on the forums. Plenty of information in the raw numbers (win/loss ratios etc.).

We just want the game to be better!

Your rly right. Thats what im thinkin too!

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What if a simple supply/demand system were put in place? Track the frequency that items are purchased and adjust the cost up/down by a percentage each week until the purchase price is equal to the usefullness of the item. At first we would have exactly what we have now, but based on actual game play we would get automatic item balancing. Anytime any item was too OP, word would get out, people would buy it in droves and the price would increase until it cost what it was worth. The same for the never-used items, they would drop in price until people started using them. As the items changed in value, so would the tactics, making the content of the game 'fresher'.

Just my 2 cents.

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Quoting Lukas_A_79,

reply 16

Foul grasp is more useful as a stun than a damage IMHO. your basic ub Melee will deal more damage than it. I find it most useful/devastating when the enemy tries to flee a gang or behind a tower.

UB runs from my TB on almost every game uless he's got help on the way.

I mean coupled with spit and ooze. Spit has about 100 dps and ooze has maybe 80 at this point plus foul grasps 100 dps so 2 seconds of stun and 600 damage. Thats almost as effective as regulus's snipe. Maybe even more effective. Plus spit and ooze persist with extra effects. I don't see a melee UB doing more damage than that and having the same amount of health.

Quoting gkrit,

reply 17

Quoting XaviorsFist,
reply 15
I have to say that I would rather have balanced Demigods than balanced items. Because everyone can use each item while not everyone has an attack as powerful as foul grasp at level 5.

im quite happy with the balancing of the demigods right now APART FROM qot and her uselessness (but thats a whole problem in itself).

but rlly ... theres is no doubt that some equips NEED to be changed. Useless items in shop are just annoying fluff. Theres no use for them and no one uses them, they may as well not be in the game at all.

I completely am happy with it too. I like QoT and actually in some games do better than other players. I have quiet a few complaints about her late game potential but in my opinion she is the most fun character to play. I only have problems with a minion erebus. His minion spawn area is too large and you can't burst enough damage unless you have a torchbearer to nuetralize him effectively. I have a few problems with UB cause ooze should be stopped when casting foul grasp because otherwise having 100 dps from spit another 150 from ooze and 100 from foul grasp PLUS enemies attacking for 2 seconds is just insane. (this is level 10)

I would like to see some of the balance fixes. I actually would prefer to buff items instead of nerfing them too. Because it would make games slightly faster paced and games on high would be more fun.

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Quoting XaviorsFist
Quoting Lukas_A_79, reply 16Foul grasp is more useful as a stun than a damage IMHO. your basic ub Melee will deal more damage than it. I find it most useful/devastating when the enemy tries to flee a gang or behind a tower.

UB runs from my TB on almost every game uless he's got help on the way.

I mean coupled with spit and ooze. Spit has about 100 dps and ooze has maybe 80 at this point plus foul grasps 100 dps so 2 seconds of stun and 600 damage. Thats almost as effective as regulus's snipe. Maybe even more effective. Plus spit and ooze persist with extra effects. I don't see a melee UB doing more damage than that and having the same amount of health.

Coupled with spit and ooze..... yeah yeah. so a stun for 600damage, other for 180damage.... unless yr spit is maxed out this don't concern me. When you stack your hp and have a 6k hp TB vs a 4-5k Ub... Meh.

I've played a few games where we copped a ub+ereb combo. Kept them nicely away from my tower long enought to deal out punishment. One snipe and heavens wrath from my Reg teammate on other side of map was enough to convince them to both piss of in fear - a few times.... This is when I say "I love the taste of CHICKEN!"

One insane comination is Sedna+UB... that I won't even think about tackling. So whadda yo do then? Well when other team has Sedna and UB on their side in lobby, you MUST mirror this. Then throw in oak or TB for the stun/silence/grasp/freeze combo and watch sed and UB crumble.

A frost built TB is mightier than you give him credit for.

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