Erebus - lvl 15 bite idea » Forum Post by gkrit

Howabout this,

Level I Batswarm

75% or 3000 mana whichever is greater

(THis model continues through II, III etc.)

Erebus is damn hard to kill already, we cant make him tougher lol.

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awuffleablehedgie

Join Date 04/2009

+60

Bite is already insane, it needs to either not snare or not rape yoru armor. POOF. Erebus is (mostly) balanced.

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Bite is already one of the strongest abilities in the game. Actually I'd rather want to nerf it (take away the slowing effect; Erebus already has increased movement speed and Bat Swarm to follow a victim).

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Bite is a high damage healing armor piercing slow attack. Way too many adjetives there already.

Quoting CosMoe,

reply 3

Bite is already one of the strongest abilities in the game. Actually I'd rather want to nerf it (take away the slowing effect; Erebus already has increased movement speed and Bat Swarm to follow a victim).

Agreed. Completely agreed. Simplist thing to do is to add more distance to bat swarm but then the mana cost would need to be even higher. So add 10 more range and make it cost 500 more mana than the one before, level 10.

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Quoting CosMoe,

reply 3

Bite is already one of the strongest abilities in the game. Actually I'd rather want to nerf it (take away the slowing effect; Erebus already has increased movement speed and Bat Swarm to follow a victim).

What are u talking about? erebus has 6.3 movement speed from start and doesnt increase unless if u get an item for speed/or simply favor (swift anklet).

And i think that bite should be either nerfed or left as is. it is already OP. but to add a lvl 15 bite is waaaaaaaaay OP.

I agree with Cosmoe though. The slowing effect should be removed.

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i agree with you that bite is a very strong skill, but i dont think its OP in any way. I would like to know y u think its OP, but dont just tell me it slows and lessens armor.

bite should be as strong as it is because he lacks the dps. Its effectiveness comes in when you have a dps team mate with you. If u say nerf it, then you might aswell nerf penitence aswell coz it ranged, interrupts, slows and makes target recieve % more dmg and nerf spit while ur at it.

but if not give bite a lvl 15 skill, fix up bat swarms last lvl coz its just not worth its cost. at least drop its manna cost to 1000.

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Bite slows, lessens armor, damages hp, and heals you. what is not OP about it? only the fact that the enemy losses hp and u gain that amount of hp is really awesome. if the slowing could be removed then it would be balanced imo. i dont have a problem with how it is now. but it is a little OP. everyone knows that bite is the best ability in the game. but most games dont even get to level 15 so it wouldnt matter much anyway.

me? i love bite. i would love a level 15 bite (like these u suggested). but then everybody would scream "OMG nerf erebus NOW!" or "OP annoying erebus!" stuff like that.

But for the level 15 bat swarm i totally agree with you. It deffinitely doesnt worth the extra mana. it either should be removed or cost 1000 mana or smth. Make it somehow useful. i have never gotten bat swarm 3, only in single player mode just for fun.

What does everyone else think? any ideas?

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i still dont think its even a 'little bit' OP. if you compare it to penitence, it is prob the most balanced your gonna get. and if you think bite is a little OP then penitence is a little OP. ill try justify why as best as i can.

Bite IV
800 mana
Instant
Recharge: 7 secs
Range: 8 yrds

Steal 775 health from target.
Slow target by 30% for 3 secs.
Lessen target armour by 700 for 3 secs.

Penitence IV
750 mana
0.1 sec cast (its not instant but instant skills still stop players' movement)
Recharge: 7 secs
Range: 20 yrds

Interrupts.
Deals 800 dmg.
Slows target movement by 16% for 7 secs.
Target receives 16% more dmg for 7 secs.

This is where all the little details counts.
- they both recharge in 7 secs

- penitence doesnt heal urself, but it interrupts and you can deal the dmg without from a distance without getting hit urself. No need to heal if you dont get hit

- They both have movement speed debuffs. They only differ in time of effect. Bite is effective in a short burst. Penitence lingers for a little longer with a little over half of bites movement speed debuff.

- They both have a debuff that allows for extra dmg on affected target. Bite's armor debuff only affects auto attacks, which within the 3 seconds you will only hit twice if you're by urself. Penitence increases dmg on target from ALL sources and its over a longer period of time (works well with spit ooze and grasp, and any other skill).

- and finally, penitence costs 50 less mana than bite.

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Good for listing all that. some people dont know the details.

But being against a UB with me as erebus and we are both at less than 500-600 health i will kill the ub in an instant without getting killed by a snipe or smth else after i kill the ub.

while with oak on the same situation i will still kill the ub but i wont absorb health and be vulnerable to a snipe-kill afterwards.

that was an example. i think u see my point. i know that u will say that penitence is ranged but still u cant run back and forth spamming penitence. this way u cant get a kill. but by luring an opponent with his hp full and ur hp at 3/4 with erebus u might still kill him. with oak u cant do this easily.

Being able to heal and damage the opponent is the best thing in dg imo. it is really how u see it some ppl will agree that bite is Not OP while others will say that it is. but what does it matter really?

But i dont this this is a bite/penitence comparison thread he he

Edit; Btw oak's penitence is really nice too.

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ok i see where ur comin from, but about the health/reg snipe kill situation you brought up. oak can shield it will also heal 600 at lvl4, ok yes its an extra skill added in the equation but, if every character worked the exact same way, the game would be very boring.

but ur basing ur argument on that one scenario, to say that its slightly OP. Thats like me saying "my spit woulda killed you if you didnt have symbol of purity". Bite just makes erebus more efficient in some circumstances (like the one u just suggested).
Its just like oak being able to chain lock a portal with ease coz of shield but i dont see ppl saying thats OP, but say "its a unique capability that Oak has".

and no, it isnt a bite/penitence comparison but thats the only way i can try get my point across. Saying if bite is a lil OP then penitence is a lil OP because they do pretty much the exact thing but have a unique trait (interrupt and stealing health) in each.

If a TB uses fireball which does 1050 dmg which skill (bite/penitence) would do best at countering the dmg.
- you'll cop the hefty 1050 dmg but when you'll bite ull gain 775 health back.
- if you time penitence well, ull avoid being dmg'd and ull deal a nice 800 dmg bak at TB.

Does that make penitence OP just because he completely stopped a skill from executing?

if you dont think so, then why do you think stealing health is OP?

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well i suppose u are right. But i think shield is definitely OP.

When i have oak and i get level 3 shield i am unkillable. and not just me. every decent oak player.

You are at 200-300 hp? just shield and teleport. enemy portal got unlocked? just go shield lock it and then teleport back. That is OP imo. Especially on cataract where portals are the most important thing. i really think shield should be interruptible. The abilty to be able to teleport anywhere safely even with 1 hp ( so to speak) is really really good. oak is the best late game demigod in cataract because of shield.

Again, this isnt an oak/erebus comparison thread. Unless u want it to be ofc he he.

But u made ur point and i agree with u after all

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awuffleablehedgie

Join Date 04/2009

+60

Bite 1 is 350 mana. Pentitence 1 is 500... Pentitence becomes stronger later game, Bite starts off vicious and levels off.

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Quoting morpheas768,

reply 11

well i suppose u are right. But i think shield is definitely OP.

When i have oak and i get level 3 shield i am unkillable. and not just me. every decent oak player.

You are at 200-300 hp? just shield and teleport. enemy portal got unlocked? just go shield lock it and then teleport back. That is OP imo. Especially on cataract where portals are the most important thing. i really think shield should be interruptible. The abilty to be able to teleport anywhere safely even with 1 hp ( so to speak) is really really good. oak is the best late game demigod in cataract because of shield.

Again, this isnt an oak/erebus comparison thread. Unless u want it to be ofc he he.

But u made ur point and i agree with u after all

good to hear lol. but its tru, bite isnt OP like what ppl make it out to be.

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Quoting gkrit,

reply 6

i agree with you that bite is a very strong skill, but i dont think its OP in any way. I would like to know y u think its OP, but dont just tell me it slows and lessens armor.

bite should be as strong as it is because he lacks the dps. Its effectiveness comes in when you have a dps team mate with you. If u say nerf it, then you might aswell nerf penitence aswell coz it ranged, interrupts, slows and makes target recieve % more dmg and nerf spit while ur at it.

but if not give bite a lvl 15 skill, fix up bat swarms last lvl coz its just not worth its cost. at least drop its manna cost to 1000.

Have you even played a minion erebus. Easily and by easily i mean EASILY!!!! as minion erebus you can hit 600 dps by level 8... adding bite just makes it unfair. Now you get attacked by an unkillable minion horde and are slowed armor pierced making that 600 DPS almost unnegatable and slowed. Plus if you use warpstone or something to get away forget that BATSWARM BITE AGAIN... slowed AGAIN and now that minion horde you managed to shake is on you again. Let me know how this isn't OP again.

And comparing oak to erebus isn't really that bad. The 3 most OP characters UB, Erebus, and Oak all have 2 or more OP abilities. Comparing one OP ability to another doesn't accomplish anything.

Lets compare Bite to pounce or Bite heal. Same idea differant result. OOO OOO OOO compare bite to spike wave i want to see that.

Bite slows just as heavily does almost twice the damage and heals you. Spike wave has range and high cooldown... not looking too good.

Bite to pounce. As far as i know without checking the stats level 10 the mana cost is the same. Bite slows is instant heals you and pierces armor. Pounce interrupts and does SLIGHTLY more damage.

Bite to heal. Heal heals you. Bite heals you for half of that slows and pierces armor.

In terms of a comparison to a correctly balanced skill things are looking pretty bad for bite.

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Quoting XaviorsFist,

reply 14

Quoting gkrit,
reply 6
i agree with you that bite is a very strong skill, but i dont think its OP in any way. I would like to know y u think its OP, but dont just tell me it slows and lessens armor.

bite should be as strong as it is because he lacks the dps. Its effectiveness comes in when you have a dps team mate with you. If u say nerf it, then you might aswell nerf penitence aswell coz it ranged, interrupts, slows and makes target recieve % more dmg and nerf spit while ur at it.

but if not give bite a lvl 15 skill, fix up bat swarms last lvl coz its just not worth its cost. at least drop its manna cost to 1000.

Have you even played a minion erebus. Easily and by easily i mean EASILY!!!! as minion erebus you can hit 600 dps by level 8... adding bite just makes it unfair. Now you get attacked by an unkillable minion horde and are slowed armor pierced making that 600 DPS almost unnegatable and slowed. Plus if you use warpstone or something to get away forget that BATSWARM BITE AGAIN... slowed AGAIN and now that minion horde you managed to shake is on you again. Let me know how this isn't OP again.

And comparing oak to erebus isn't really that bad. The 3 most OP characters UB, Erebus, and Oak all have 2 or more OP abilities. Comparing one OP ability to another doesn't accomplish anything.

Lets compare Bite to pounce or Bite heal. Same idea differant result. OOO OOO OOO compare bite to ground spikes i want to see that.

Bite slows just as heavily does almost twice the damage and heals you. Ground spikes has range and high cooldown... not looking too good.

Bite to pounce. As far as i know without checking the stats level 10 the mana cost is the same. Bite slows is instant heals you and pierces armor. Pounce interrupts and does SLIGHTLY more damage.

Bite to heal. Heal heals you. Bite heals you for half of that slows and pierces armor.

In terms of a comparison to a correctly balanced skill things are looking pretty bad for bite.

Ground spikes is an aoe or did you just get owned by an erebus and want bite nerfed so pull out all the "bad" skills compared to bite and screw over their good points....and heal can target aliies bite can't.

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Personally I think bite it slightly op. I would not say to remose the speed debuff, but reduce a bit....

Small chages over time... If only we could get any changes.

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Quoting Shiro_Sol,

reply 15

Ground spikes is an aoe or did you just get owned by an erebus and want bite nerfed so pull out all the "bad" skills compared to bite and screw over their good points....and heal can target aliies bite can't.

Sorry the error. Spike wave. Tell me how heal is a bad skill same with pounce. Those are balanced skills not bad ones. Do not accuse til you know. I myself play erebus and think games would be more fun if bite was nerfed and you didn't MAUL everyone you came into contact with. Take out the slow.

Don't say I got owned by an erebus. I could post a replay of me as QoT beating a fairly good Erebus one on one. He was using bite. No I did not get mauled I won but bite kept him alive in situation where I easily had the upper hand. One skill shouldn't change a battle.

Quoting tperge,

reply 16

Personally I think bite it slightly op. I would not say to remose the speed debuff, but reduce a bit....

Small chages over time... If only we could get any changes.

Agreed. Take the speed away is small and will have a large impact with a little change. Would do wonders for balance.

Again Shiro you fail to recognize that erebus already has immense damage potential in his minions he does not need an instant damage with a slow expecially since bat swarm can chase down people already. ALONG WITH THE DUAL PURPOSE of removing him from battle.

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xaviors fist... ive vsed very good minion erebus' before, and i dont recall ever being killed by one. sure the minions output a lot of dps, but thats all they got and bites speed nerf does not last for that long.

sedna - silence him as he gets in range, lets see him bite then. If he does get bite in just heal up and ull escape nicely.
oak - surge of faith for the speed boost if fleeing and shield up if in trouble.
ub - i love oozing them with ub, its slows their attack speed by 40% at max lvl and post mortem is nice to deal those small bursts of dmg.
ereb - obviously swarm out, or mass charm them.
reg - mines work wonders. angel is also nice against them.
rook - slam it up!
tb - wat more could you want, rain of ice, frost nova, circle of fire, fire nova.
qot - hmmm, shes useless and barely anyone uses her. but you could alsoways slow them down with spike wave to get away.

there are plenty of ways to counter minion erebus but the only problem is that the minions take away the focus from the actual demigod. so you may never actually kill him.

Bite slows just as heavily does almost twice the damage and heals you.

big woop, he heals from a skill. yeah, and rook does 2100 dmg in a 1.5 sec skill. Learn to accept that aspect of the skill and always prepare for it, like ppl prepare for a slamming rook. Im not just gonna stand under a rook and accept the whopper burst dmg that follows.

sedna heals for twice as much (and remove debuffs) coz she doesnt deal dmg while healing does that make it slightly OP?

so just because one skill in the game heals you for the amount u deal dmg to the target, it is considered OP?!?!
The short debuff is most effective when played with ur teammates, and you deserve the kill from biting ur targets if you're playing as a team. Tough luck if your by urself vsing an erebus and ub.

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I myself play erebus and think games would be more fun if bite was nerfed and you didn't MAUL everyone you came into contact with. Take out the slow.

im sorry, your gonna have to take out the slow debuff in penitence then aswell. and while ur at it, take out the speed debuff from reg's mines. Its enough that mines do 1350 dmg at max lvl.

oh and dont forget snipe, coz ur able to target an enemy that half the map away, thats too OP man!!!

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Quoting XaviorsFist,

reply 17

Quoting Shiro_Sol,
reply 15

Ground spikes is an aoe or did you just get owned by an erebus and want bite nerfed so pull out all the "bad" skills compared to bite and screw over their good points....and heal can target aliies bite can't.

Sorry the error. Spike wave. Tell me how heal is a bad skill same with pounce. Those are balanced skills not bad ones. Do not accuse til you know. I myself play erebus and think games would be more fun if bite was nerfed and you didn't MAUL everyone you came into contact with. Take out the slow.

Don't say I got owned by an erebus. I could post a replay of me as QoT beating a fairly good Erebus one on one. He was using bite. No I did not get mauled I won but bite kept him alive in situation where I easily had the upper hand. One skill shouldn't change a battle.

Quoting tperge,
reply 16
Personally I think bite it slightly op. I would not say to remose the speed debuff, but reduce a bit....

Small chages over time... If only we could get any changes.

Agreed. Take the speed away is small and will have a large impact with a little change. Would do wonders for balance.

Again Shiro you fail to recognize that erebus already has immense damage potential in his minions he does not need an instant damage with a slow expecially since bat swarm can chase down people already. ALONG WITH THE DUAL PURPOSE of removing him from battle.

First off i wasn't calling those skills bad I was pointing out how they were just as good as bite second you play under a different name? Third I play erebus plenty myself and the 3 second slow isnt as almighty as you seem to think it wears off quick and when you use it on a running demi it takes time to catch back up to them and thats maybe 2 aa's while they have reduced armor(if they stand still 1 if theyre running) sure minions hit abit while its down but it doesnt make that much of a difference and spike wave has the longest aoe in the game and it slows. Fourth 1 skill changes the way a battle goes all the time what are you talking about? a snipe from across the map running into mines while chasing a heal an interupt a Shield etc...

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Quoting gkrit,

reply 19

I myself play erebus and think games would be more fun if bite was nerfed and you didn't MAUL everyone you came into contact with. Take out the slow.

im sorry, your gonna have to take out the slow debuff in penitence then aswell. and while ur at it, take out the speed debuff from reg's mines. Its enough that mines do 1350 dmg at max lvl.

oh and dont forget snipe, coz ur able to target an enemy that half the map away, thats too OP man!!!

Don't forget snipe also slows because of maim so that a 90 yard slow and 1k spike way op.

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Erebus is easily either the #1 or #2 demigod right now. Somehow I don't think nerfing bite alone would make him much more balanced.

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I think, and i would like to hear what gkrit has to say about this, that all demigods are balanced, except QoT. she really needs a buff. smth to spike a little more damage.

Other than that everything is fine, well, maybe TB could use an Auto Attack while chasing in fire mode.

But if u are going to say that erebus is OP, then what about Unclean Beasts that have 5 items for health+max ooze & max spit and they pop a sigil on top to go 9 - 10k of hp with almost as much dps as an erebus minion build? That is really unkillable 1v1. Only thing u have to do is farm to level up all the time. Every game of this kind needs strong melee heros, (demigods in this case) as well as strong support. OP

Sedna - And what about a sedna that has max heal+max pounce at level 11? she heals 1500 health and pounces for 1000 damage in 1 secong. Oh and max heal does 200 damage as well. So it is 1500 healed and 1200 damage. OP

QoT - what about when u see a qot that cant be killed? just spam shield and mulch shambler with cloak as favor item and u will never die.OP

Oak - there is so much to say about oak. 1st i can ramble about shield again which renders u invulnerable and unstunnable for 6 seconds and heals u on top of that. You can cap portals and tp safely anywhere, u can just tp away if being chased by every enemy in the game, u can never die with just 3 skills in shield ( Shield III). Surge of Faith a really great support aoe damage skill. You can just use it to flee if being chased, to help an ally flee, to farm creeps, or just spike more damage. Penitence Divine Justice.... etc etc

I can continue my boring blah blah but u get the point. Every character in the game is really good in the right hands.

Oak, Lord Erebus, Sedna , Queen of Thorns, Rook, Regulus, Unclean Beast, Torch Bearer. They are all special and very dangerous if played right. All balanced except QoT maybe, but they all have strong and weak points depending on the build u are playing. They all have counters for other certain demigod builds and they can be countered as well.

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i believe all skills atm are balanced functionality wise, with the exception of Qot. But qot is a whole issue in itself.

Offensive mode
- often results in you falling back because you're too squishy.
- theres no skill that would push an opponent back.
- ground spikes is only good for taking out creeps and towers. semi decent against other demigods.
- spike wave - way too mana heavy. to make it worth its cost, increase the movement speed debuff lasts for (8 secs maybe?)
- compost - too inconsistant and dependant on external factors. Why cant it just have a passive effect?
- uproot - can only be used on towers. drop its mana cost significantly and ull see how many ppl will start using it.
- violant siege - circumstantial and is an end game skill. How many towers will be left by this time?

Defensive mode
- downtime between skills is way too long. Should be a 1 secs delay.
- brambles, just doesnt scale well late game in comparison to heal. Heals main purpose end game is debuff removal, and thats a very powerful tool. and brambles costs way too much mana for wat it does.
- Shamblers, useless.
- Mulch, i guess it does its job.
- Entourage, waste of a skill line.
- Tribute shoudl be an aura effect.
- goddess of thorns shoudl be changed imo.

now this is completely off topic, but i no how against ppl are to my bite idea, so what the hell.

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QoT - what about when u see a qot that cant be killed? just spam shield and mulch shambler with cloak as favor item and u will never die.OP

I know that you mean my build with this. If it's so OP as you think, please play it.

Because:

Yes, you can soak up a lot of damage!

BUT

Your autoattack damage is ridiculously low. Moreover, casting all the abilities (Summon, Mulch, Shield) takes away half your autoattacks in a fight.

You can not kill other Demigods (except they are unexperienced). Therefore you'll always have the least money on your team.

You are slow as hell.

A coordinated enemy team can gank you very easily. Cloak Jump does not help always, trust me.

You can not stun.

You can not interrupt.

You can not slow.

You have to micro-manage Shamblers a lot.

Your Shamblers die very easily later on.

You have to skill Entourage to keep them alive against area-of-effect skills and can get Ground Spikes only late into the game.

You do not have any "side-effect" skill except Ground Spikes' armor reduction which is only good against giants and towers.

Shields scales very badly later on, even the mana cost per damage absorbed increases a bit.

Your teammates will often waste all your support.

This build is not that hard to counter either. Most players just do not know how because almost nobody plays QoT like me.

Just don't whine around to "QoT is OP!!!1", you're making yourself look stupid.

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