i just dont understand how now more and more ppl talk about spirit builds. It's like ppl are just now discovering his potential. I have always play spirit oak from beginning of playing him, and i would maybe never get to idea of assassin oak alone, if i havent gone to this forum to read about it. I personally think that spirit oak is better than assassine one, & is the best build oak can have (in the end, he gets all skills assassin (who has spirits) have, just with different =better skills order imo (it allows him to be great at lower lvls not just at high lvls)

My build is different that yours, but same in nature (as we both use spirits early), and i'm very adaptable, can change bettwen peni/shield/spirits (rarely)/ DJ , as it suites better for game.

You can look at my build which I think I prefer from yours. I have managed to use shield with the hybrid build:

1. Shield I

2. Ward I

3. Divine Justice

4. Ward II

5. Surge of Fath I

6. Penitence I

7. Ward III

8. Soul Power

9. Penitence II

10. Surge of Faith II

11. Ward IV

12. Shield II or Penitence III

13. Shield II or Penitence III

14. Penitence IV

15. Surge of Faith III

16. Soul Frenzy

I think both of your builds are good but more reliying on minions. I just can't see my build not using penitence I only up to level 9. I think without it, a pure assassin Oak will win over your builds. I like to scale penitence as soon as I can, because it actually allows my Oak to benifit from the damage increase by spirits.

The build I proposed above is exactly much more assassin style, with spirits to boost ur damage like crazy, but without a shield. So you wanna play more carefull.

@ Esuzu

Shield I and II can be interupted, in fact I died once using shield I and thinking that I can TP out safely behind my tower. well I was wrong. beast grasp to interupt my TP and then spit. That's why I said in my post that imho, its either shield III all the way, or save your 3 points for something else

lol in order to make ur spirits fuckin badass i do this: Favor= Totem of war (5 minion dmg), Morale( 4 minion dmg) and gladiator gauntlets ( 4 damage) that is 13 bonus damage to ur spirits, by lvl 2. Youll rape crap!

well heaven, maybe I havent killed you yet but I will soon. You're a good QoT and I admire that, but i will get you one day.

@ Unclean beast

That but be a good choice of items for a pure minion build, but Im playin assassin style with spirt for boost of damage, thtats all. I dont rely on my minion to do the dirty work. I like to have them as scouts and decoys, and for damage. The coak of night five so much mana, works well with velmish +pleanor as combination.

i play an assassin build too, but im better with the pure minion build. Mine can give oak 588 weapon damage by level 5 )

It wont be after balancing.      It will come on its order of 'need to do list'. It's actually unbelievable it hasn't been addressed long ago (It shouldn't have been the problem in the first place, from the releasing of the game. SD/GPG staff did a major 'error'(!) with Erebus's Nightwalkers. Mark my word!  You'll see what i mean soon. 

how so?

@bobek: if you weaken the minion build of erebus than the last usefull minion build is gone. no one would ever play a minion build again, and all agenerals will be played like assasins, except qot maybe.

i really don't get why people thikn erebus minion build is overpowered. palyed against and as erebus noumerous times and i absolutly don't find him overpowered. learn how to fight each build!

temporary overpowerness is for most demigods given and not really an issue. you cannot balance it to be on every level perfectly balanced.

btw. when erebus minions are strong erebus himself is usually very weak.

OK. HERE WE GO!      (..i didnt intend to write it here, but i must now)

Actually, they would still remain the stongest minions overall, but they would be fixed/balanced better so they are not that OP early game, but have better scaling late game.

And you'll see now solution you're looking for (but here i will adress only nightwalkers though)

That's not only the problem of Erebus minions then, as you say here, but problem of all of them (and i know that also, & i know everything can be taken care of. Its not that hard, i dont know why you ppl always think its hard to make smth better, and never try hard to find the best solution. It's not that hard!) Secondly, i would not weaken erebus minions, i would just make them more balanced, and in the end even better than they are now (and would do that with all other minions), but they have to be fixed!  It's unfair how good they are early game. Just read, you'll see.

I know how to handle them as well, but it is not the problem, problem is that they are unfair in comparison to other minions! And after 'the balancing', they should ALL get additional buffing so they can scale better.

And, i noticed that myself, and that is other problem, which requires additional balancing, which i'm not addressing here. Let's go step by step!;

I shall compare nightwalkers with other minions:

Lord Erebus starts with passive(non skill wasting) ability to have 2 minions from dead creeps. Cost 0 mana. No other dg have that. THEN, after putting JUST ONE SKILL POINT into coven, he can have SIX minions!!! NO OTHER DG CAN DO THAT!!

Let's compare that with Oak; he put one skill point in Raise Dead Ward, and he can have max THREE (spirit)minions!!! And that only after spending 200 mana for putting the ward. Erebus is again mana free. (and also, if i want to go to details, Spirits have 30% chance to become, and nightwalkers 35% chance. I'm not even mentioning 100 more health nightwalkers have, but i'm fine with that)

Next, if we compare that (1 skill point spending) with other dg's minions; Sedna's Yetis, and Qot Shamblers, You'll notice that they can summon/have only ONE minion, and it also costs much more mana than oaks ward! (and if they want to have 2 minions they have to spend another 550/450 mana to have so).

DO YOU CALL THAT BALANCED???!!!

I personaly think that SD/GPG staff have made  a mistake - an error, human error, non voluntary error - when they have made the Nightwalkers like that. It is totaly unreasonable, and for me hardly to believe such a thing could ever happend in games like this. But it did!  And still now it lies unfixed, unbalanced.

Ppl, we have to solve this, we have to urge this to be fixed in a next patch (not the 1.2), with a simple solution, but also a little complicated things to be done to make it perfect (and by that i also mean to balance all other minions better).

The solution is this:

Let one point in coven increase the number of nightwalkers to 4. Next ones to 6 and 8, and finaly the 'Army of Night' to 10!, as it already is actually. So we would have 2/4/6/8/10  and not  2/6/8/10/10 !! (number 2 being not skill required nightwalkers ofc) This scales well, and is completely fair to other dgs minions (Yetis, Shamblers & Spirits)

I still cant believe they didn't relise the game like that in a first place.

I want no argue about this, it is the way it should have been from the start!

> Imagine that it was (!), & let me ask you then: would any of you ever say that Nightwalkers are weak and they need to be buffed in a way to increase their number in coven from 2/4/6/8/10  to  2/6/8/10/10 ?!!

I think not!

Even if they are the weakest minions, weaker than Shamblers, and that Erebus is the weakest dg of all, i would still say the same thing!  BUT would also add: 'Now, buff HIM, and his minions, but in another way!(not with unreasonable scaling numbers of them!)'

So, if with this change (and i dont even call it a nerf!!; i call it mearly balancing (the one that should have never been needed to do) the nightwalkers become 'too' weak (and i think they won't, but it might be that:

I dont want to talk about that now, i already said a lot. I think you are smart enough to think about that alone without me. 

I can just say, for example, that conversion aura should get buff, atleast from +100/250/400 hp to +150/300/450 hp. And i have plenty other ideas, but i'm really tired now (it's 2 am here!), and i'm going to bed.

there you go; a wall of the text in a completely unappropriate thread.   I'm sorry op.

...

in all cases, spirits die fast, but also respawn very fast, so there is no need to boost them in anyway, however they will boost your Oak.