Entire Game style should be changed ..."the health-stacking"

I tried my mod that puts 1/2 life on life granting items but doubles the regen rate.

It makes less tactics, as it's just a bunch of guys exchanging long range blows and dancing around while not exposing themselves.

Without being able to tank a flag etc..., the game gets really boring as over exposing in the lane goes from risky, to always certain death.

The problem that needs a solution is, how to make other skills and items useful against tanking without turning them into blatant tank busters.

Successfully updated karma reason!

The only people who suggest nerfing HP are ones who don't really understand just how much damage is already done in this game. You can lose 3k health in an instant, having 4k life is simply unacceptable.

Successfully updated karma reason!

But you know.. I am sick of seeing all UB has 2750 health at the beginning...

now UB build is all known common.... having 7k health at level 10

Successfully updated karma reason!

Quoting TB_MasteR,

reply 3

But you know.. I am sick of seeing all UB has 2750 health at the beginning...

now UB build is all known common.... having 7k health at level 10

Then increase UB's mana consumption, the only reason why he has more HP than the other DGs is that he gets to skip a helm.

If you nerf items you nerf everyone's health, which means characters like QoT become even worse.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Quoting TB_MasteR,
reply 3
But you know.. I am sick of seeing all UB has 2750 health at the beginning...

now UB build is all known common.... having 7k health at level 10
Then increase UB's mana consumption, the only reason why he has more HP than the other DGs is that he gets to skip a helm.

If you nerf items you nerf everyone's health, which means characters like QoT become even worse.

Well said...oh btw UB is tough but not unkillable this forces teams to work together. Which brings up this age old question, when are we going get VOIP for this game... it would help balance out many issues like this as well as balance out those that whine about premade?

MERRY CHRISTMAS

Successfully updated karma reason!

didn't say to nerf health items,,,

benefits for damage , armor, dodge whatever

Successfully updated karma reason!

goddamit Obs.

1. buff natural hp

2. You don't need only hp to survive.Speed warps invulnabilites heals and sleeps are all survival skills that do not necceseraly add just hp.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Quoting TB_MasteR,

reply 6

didn't say to nerf health items,,,

benefits for damage , armor, dodge whatever

To what effect? To make dodge and armor more meaningful you would have to increase autoattack damage. Currently for the majority of a game autoattack does paltry damage compared to skill damage for non-minion builds. Then when people get artifacts autoattack damage becomes extremely important and outscales even the current capacity for mitigation.

But what happens if you buff autoattack damage and defenses simultaneously? Suddenly minion damage becomes paltry because it's affected by dodge/armor/whatever just the same as autoattack. So then if you buff minion damage towers become even more inconsequential, even autoattacks would be a major threat to those towers. So then we have to give more mitigation to towers and the citadel, but then that makes reinforcements do poor damage to them, not to mention reinforcements will do paltry damage to players with the improved mitigation as well.

So then we have to buff up minions, and in the end you have to balance a shitload of variables all because some people are sick of UB having too much HP? It's ridiculous.

The only thing that might actually work without completely rebuilding everything would be a major armor NERF. If players couldn't mitigate 40% of all incoming autoattack damage with a single item then maybe you would see more focus on dodge/armor items instead of buying just one and calling it good. Minion damage would have to be toned down though, which might actually improve tower balance against them.

Successfully updated karma reason!

goddamit Obs.

1. buff natural hp

I assume you're implying a major item nerf to counterbalance this and that you also assume it's going to improve the game? Who really benefits more from this, the Regulus who gets 500 more HP or the UB who can now stack up damage/speed because his base stats have improved enough to survive a couple mine waves without much augmentation?

2. You don't need only hp to survive.Speed warps invulnabilites heals and sleeps are all survival skills that do not necceseraly add just hp.

They're also things which homogenize the playstyle of all DGs and do not necessarily benefit them equally. Who benefits more from a warp ability, UB or regulus? Again, not an easy question to answer and it's preposterous to think that GPG is going to seriously consider the magnitude of these changes given how little balance changes we've seen thus far.

What I need are ideas that I can take to GPG that can be done in less than 30 minutes. Often times, the suggestions involve major rework and that's just not going to happen unfortunately.

Straight from Frogboy. If this thread is just people typing about pipe dreams then by all means say so. I won't post in it again, It's not my goal to ruin dreamtime for everyone, but if you're talking about things you genuinely hope will make it into the game then I think my criticism is merited.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Right now, damage items aren't as effective as health ones. If you stack health, and the other guys stack damage, he's going to die.

There are two places for damage items: They are very effective during the early game (mards+gloves) and again when coupled with lifesteal items.

I would say that damage items need a small buff - something like inherent attack speed or lifesteal bonuses in every item, and increase the bonuses for items that already have such a bonus.

Successfully updated karma reason!

I'm always amazed about your knowledge of gamedesign Obscenitor, if there should be one guy that had to balance demigod it would be you. Indeed armor is a pesky thing since it scales so well. Changing the armor formula would maybe work?

I wouldn't call it homogenising, rather adding variety to items. Also you could make warp unable to warp TO a Demigod(ie make a check if there's an enemy demigod in the area) but only make it usable to escape.

Is it just me or are tier I(and II) items very very cost effective. This makes it that most players will first get his slots filled with lower tier items, and only when he has enough gold and can't fill anymore slots does he sell an item to buy a higher tier. To me, this makes every tier III and higher a luxury item and indeed since by the time you can get these items creep upgrades begin to matter you'll have maybe one or none if you bought majority of the upgrades. Usually you just buff an already existing item(banded to Narmoth, a bit of extra hp and hps and a little lifesteal, nothing else. And that for 4k).

N.B. Tiers are how they show up in the shop. Ie banded and scaled are tier I, while nimoth and unbreakable are tier II.

Successfully updated karma reason!

The only reason health stacking is so effective is because of monk heals.

The only thing that must be reduced is monk heals. Perhaps flat heal rates, or heal rates based on level, but the current system of heal rates based on max hp makes health stacking overpowered.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Then how come the beast without monk wins erebus?

nerf the beast

nerf the initial health for interior characters

Successfully updated karma reason!

"beast wins erebus" ???

What the hell does that mean?
And what is an "interior character" ?

If fighting for lane control, an erebus with monks will beat out a beast with no monks.

Successfully updated karma reason!

awuffleablehedgie

Join Date 04/2009

+60

I've always thought that if you have taken damage in excess of 150 damage in the last 2 or 3 seconds ("in combat") monks only heal you halfway.

A General who goes Banded + Scailmail/Scaled Helm will always win an all-out-brawl for a flag, early game. (maybe not. Monks do do a lot of dps early game. But the ~100 hp (with Blood!) every 8-10 seconds isn't really that much so). However, the general with monks will win in 2v2 dances or just by slowly chippign away at the other's hp.

That said, this would seriously nerf Sedna who is abesolutely dependent on her monks to stay alive and compete with tier 1 demigods.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Quoting Janook,

reply 12

The only reason health stacking is so effective is because of monk heals.

The only thing that must be reduced is monk heals. Perhaps flat heal rates, or heal rates based on level, but the current system of heal rates based on max hp makes health stacking overpowered.

Yea lets not give beast or sigil of vatility any credit, but simply blame it all on monks

Successfully updated karma reason!

Yeah! FUCK MONKS!

Successfully updated karma reason!

Quoting Teseer,

reply 17

Yeah! FUCK MONKS!

you just mad they won't heal you.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Wait, I thought we were blaming the monks?

Successfully updated karma reason!

UB isn't awful to fight. Monks need a dps nerf and their healing should be fixed, not a percentage. That being said, Demigod is a complex system, meaning it would also nerf QoT and Sedna, who would need extra buffing to put them on par with the others.

Successfully updated karma reason!