4Nana

Join Date 11/2009

+21

QoT Strat / Build

k so.. like nobody plays QoT much anymore.. but in case you want to know if you get her on random or want to try her out.. she's definitely underestimated.

1. Shamblers

2. Shield

3. Ground Spikes (GS)

4. GS II

5. Mulch

6. Shield II

7. GS III

8. Shamblers II

9. Save

10. Mulch II / GS IV

11. Shield III

12. Shield IV

13. Entourage

14. Save

15. Mulch III / QoT Ultimate (don't remember the name...)

16. - 20. Entourage to Tribute, Spike wave

There is some wiggle room to get spikewave / shamblers II earlier.. spike wave earlier if your team needs the slow to catch people for kills only. Shamblers earlier if you're finding you're mulching often. Sacrifice shield points to get these earlier.

Spend all of your alone time in closed for to regen mana fast and to aoe creeps. Ideally you should fight in a creep wave, and GS the enemy and the creepwave at the same time. This provides a double benefit.. armor debuff + dmg on enemy, and all your creeps will now focus the enemy.

If you're expecting a long fight over a yellow cap or to get the flag in your lane, shield first, then walk up in open form. Ground spike and gogo. Just stay in open form so you get full benefit of GS attacks, by the time you change to closed form you lose out on most of the benefit of GS debuff (you don't attack when switching forms, and it takes a couple seconds). When you need to get away, stay in closed form and shield / mulch as necessary.

If you're left alone in a lane, GS the tower and rape it.. it drops very fast

Don't run back to base early on if you're oom... just sit in closed form and regen quickly (+50% mana regen). On that note, don't spam abilities if there is no need, they're very costly. For example, if you can push someone out without needing to shield.. don't waste the mana using shield. Unless you're at the crystal, don't shield people when no one is attacking. If a beast is spitting and backing away.. don't bother shielding yourself until after lvl 7, your monks can heal it up. Don't constantly summon shamblers.. you only need them to mulch (summon them then), so unless you're at full mana and can recharge most of it, don't bother summoning them away from the crystal. Shield / summon shamblers when you shop. This all cuts down a LOT on QoT mana issues.

Favor: Blood of the fallen. There are some others that work out alright as well.. but none have the tanking power, which is what qot is really good at.

Items: For Blood, I'll usually buy vlemish helm first. This + closed form is a LOT of regen. Banded / scaled are great.. and then unbreakables sometime in there. If you're finding you need a LOT more mana than health (usually only in 3v3 situations), then pick up plenor for a 3rd helm. That's situational.. otherwise my next purchase is nimoth chestplate. Eventually I'll replace scaled with plenor but it's usually not a priority. Siege dems are nice if you have the cash and aren't left alone to take down the double side towers (if you're left alone, GS will rape them fast enough that siege dems are pointless if you still need gear). I rarely ever get Siege dems tho. Typical order:

1. Vlemish

2. Unbreakable boots

3. Banded Armor / Scaled Helm

4. Nimoth Chestplate or Plenor (depending on what you need more)

5. If Nimoth.. sell scaled and get plenor.

Late game hungarlings, journeyman's treads, godplate. Whichever you need most.

Mulching: It costs 250 mana to do mulch @ 10. That's 1500 hp and 500 dmg for 250 mana... RIDICULOUS. It can be reallly hard to kill a qot w/ mulch. Shield, summon shamblers / mulch, shield again, mulch, shield... They get off cd when you need them pretty much. You don't really need a sigil in 2v2.. but 3v3 you should

You can take most people 1v1 if you go blood (even beast!). Other than what I've said above, there really isn't a lot more to qot.. item choices are situational.

Additions: I've been playing ALOT of QoT lately. Some more things to note as a result. The main reason I think people think qot sucks is because they just don't understand how incredibly powerful mulch is. I never did until playing her within the last 2 months. She has the best survivability of any demigod when focused. Sedna can heal for 1500 every 7 seconds @ 10. QoT can heal for 1500 every 7 seconds AND shield for 1450 dmg every 7 seconds @ 10. That's just ridiculous. With that in mind, you can simply tank alot of dmg if need be. And people just don't realize this. They will pursue a qot who's below 1000 hp thinking they have an easy kill.

Luring: With the above in mind, luring has become valuable to me. I'll start leaving a fight even if my mana isn't low but my health is. People follow into double towers thinking I'm oom. Then I shield / mulch up to a good health pool and turn around to chase them back or my teammates port in and we double up. I really think the major advantage of QoT at this point is that people are so used to seeing a weak qot or no qot at all. They just assume she sucks because nobody plays her. Use that to your advantage

Ranged demigod tactics: If there is a melee demigod you can't push out just by walking up and going at it, soften them up a little bit. Hit them at range. When they push into you, retreat back into the towers. Get a feel for when they turn around. Turn around at that point and start attacking again. You can whittle down a beast / oak / ere and get them at a lvl that you can walk in and push them

Battle tactics: You're not sedna. You provide much more benefit to your team if you ground spike the enemy and attack them than staying in closed form and spamming shield. If you're getting focused, it's different. Stay in closed form, spam mulch / shield and absorb the dmg so your team can attack at will. If they change targets and shield is close to coming off cd, wait and shield that person, but then get back into open and continue ground spiking. Some people might not grasp this.. just tell them to pretend your occulus or something and don't have shield. If they get a shield, great! But they shouldn't expect it. Again, you're not sedna. Also, if you're not getting focused but you're getting low on hp (to the point where they could switch and almost catch you offguard), go to closed, mulch, and shield the focus target.

Replays:

http://www.gamereplays.org/demigod/replays.php?game=51&show=details&id=133199

- A great example of a mana heavy build. I used plenor, vlemish, and hungarlings so I would always be able to push sedna out of lane and still be able to follow up on a tower. I ended up pushing several people out of the lane prior to going back. Also a good example of what to do when you're the focus of multiple people. Start running back to the crystal in closed form, spamming shield / mulch the whole way back. It works wonders. Also, I mistakenly grabbed something else @ 10 instead of mulch II... meh.

http://www.gamereplays.org/demigod/replays.php?game=51&show=details&id=133260

- Only 2 helms this game, and it was plenty of mana for what I needed. Got more armor than usually to deal with reg aa / tower hits / spirits. A clear example of when spikewave is better than another point in shield, but I got it way late (would have been 2-3 more kills... w/e).

http://www.gamereplays.org/demigod/replays.php?game=51&show=details&id=133264

- another 3 helm game w/ hungarlings. Very useful against an all minion char. Spam ground spikes to kill them off and shield / mulch to have the strength to still manage to push towers. 190 favor as qot in reg / sed / qot vs oak / ere / reg.

I ramble. Hooray.

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shield 3-4 is not even worth it really.

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it is for Goddess of Thorns @ lvl 15

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Quoting 4Nana,

reply 2

it is for Goddess of Thorns @ lvl 15

Which is also a ability not really worth it seeing how its affects do not over lap at all; goddess of thorns really needs a bad boost.

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Goddess of Thorns not worth it? .... you have no idea how to play qot do you?

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Quoting 4Nana,

reply 4

Goddess of Thorns not worth it? .... you have no idea how to play qot do you?

Yea I have no idea how to play queen even though 90% of the timeI am in game as queen.

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that doesn't mean you know how to play her....

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Quoting 4Nana,

reply 6

that doesn't mean you know how to play her....

uh huh; keep thinking that then

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awuffleablehedgie

Join Date 04/2009

+60

Goddes of Thorns isn't too bad... the damage reflect isn't that great (though it does apply to her minions as well which makes it a little better), but the % reduction in damage isn't bad at all. It's like an on-demand Acclimation that lets her actually risk opening up end-game.

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exactly.. the damage reflect is just a little bonus on top of the 15% reduced dmg. And if the choice is between getting entourage to tribute or goddess of thorns, definitely going to go for 15% reduced dmg combined with an ability I use in every fight.

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First off that damage reflection is something that should have been placed on shield 3 -4 in the first place; waiting all the way to late game where sadly her power has dwindled greatly is a little to late to be depend on such a thing. At level 15; unless you are fighting an evenly drawn game which happens what one every 5 games, and thats if you are venting. That lreally should be game over you either won or lost.

Between 5 - 12; queens power comes from her spikes armor reduction, combined with a teammate assistance; if you have minions and idols that just adds to assisting your teammate. If you are actually playing queen decently; mulch and a shield 2 shield help you survive, that is if you are managing your mana correctly and not trying to overextend yourself, or trying to be the terminator.

Lets look at the damage shall we

Goddess of thorns; Adds 15% damage reduction for 10 seconds to Ground Spikes. Bramble Shield encircles Queen of Thorns and her allies, dealing 35 damage to attackers for 20 seconds.

so 35 damage for 20 seconds; that is what 700 damage? What is 700 damage to a beast that has 6k hp. I have not tested to see if this is affected by queens armor reduction. Even if it is, there is still the fact that a level 15 beast can break through queens level 4 shield within what 10 seconds how its 30 seconds duration? This is even less if you are facing a level 15 da or tb who aren't even hp stacking; which are two characters something like this should be a bit more affective against.

As far as the reduction go on ground spikes, if you let level 15 anybody catch you in open form; you are as good as dead. If I am not mistaken hedggie you have said it yourself, queens level 15 abilities all need a major boost.

I love queen and she is my main, but point of the matter is she is a powerful beginner but majority if not all of her level 15 abilities just isn't worth it. Why I say majority, because mulch is a damn beast, not for its damage which is good for dropping creep wave, but for its healing ability.

None of this does not deny the fact queen can be very powerful with decent teammates and when micro manged correctly. Now if you will excuse me, its time for me to visit the church of thorns.

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awuffleablehedgie

Join Date 04/2009

+60

If you open up, you're vulnerable yes... that's why I said the damage reduction was good: it actually lets you open without dying.

I said that her "random" skills like Entourage, Compost and Uproot needed major help. Tribute is pretty meh. It should be +4 or +1 for everyone on your team.

Also, in general EVERYONE needs better level 15 skills. The only one with a bunch of awesome level 15 skills are pretty much Erebus and UB.

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I don't get it... what skill would you say is better to take @ lvl 15 instead of goddess? Already have maxed mulch.. and you're incorrect about qot insta dying @ 15. Mulch + shield can hold off 2 ppl for a long time... I'll post some replays in the next couple days.

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I'd rather try to snare you with spike wave then depend on that damage reduction.

On your last note, thats because ub is effing op, and le gains his strength from all the squealing fan girls when someone mentions a twilight movie.

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Quoting 4Nana,

reply 12

When did I say she will insta die? "Your as good as dead" is a phrase refering to a highly likely chance you will die, its not guaranteed (as many times as I've escaped death in some of the most situations where death looked like it was certain for me. I said nothing of it being instant.

If you are just going to try to use the argument of simply spamming mulch and shield to survive, chances are you aren't properly monitoring your own mana. At level 15, the game is a race to capture portals, and gain giants (if they aren't already obtained). This is the point where suns and locks are your best friend, and shield lock oak is a fucking feared. This is a place where she loses much of her effectiveness because she lacks a stun. so she can't even stop an oculus for locking your portal, or a da at 40 hp from just tping out. (I have yet to see this happen but it will be hilarious when it does.)

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awuffleablehedgie

Join Date 04/2009

+60

Quoting OMG_blackmage,

reply 13

I'd rather try to snare you with spike wave then depend on that damage reduction.

On your last note, thats because ub is effing op, and le gains his strength from all the squealing fan girls when someone mentions a twilight movie.

You know that level 15 Spike Wave has a longer cooldown than Spike Wave I and II right? There is no reason to ever get the third point. So if you're getting that at 15 instead of Goddess, that's a mistake.

The answer to someone locking your portal is never let them get it in the first place. Except against Occulus, TB, and Erebus (Mass Charm) no one can just stand in your creep wave of Giants and beat you in a fight (especially with Ground Spikes). Now, sure, you can't stop them from porting out, and that kinda sucks but...

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Quoting OMG_BlackHatHedgehog,

reply 15

Quoting OMG_blackmage, reply 13I'd rather try to snare you with spike wave then depend on that damage reduction.

On your last note, thats because ub is effing op, and le gains his strength from all the squealing fan girls when someone mentions a twilight movie.
You know that level 15 Spike Wave has a longer cooldown than Spike Wave I and II right? There is no reason to ever get the third point. So if you're getting that at 15 instead of Goddess, that's a mistake.

The answer to someone locking your portal is never let them get it in the first place. Except against Occulus, TB, and Erebus (Mass Charm) no one can just stand in your creep wave of Giants and beat you in a fight (especially with Ground Spikes). Now, sure, you can't stop them from porting out, and that kinda sucks but...

When did I ever say I got level 3 spikewave? On that note that why would someone who can't andle a large creep wave try and even capture while a new fresh wave is coming out?

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Lifekatana is lurking. Maybe he will chime in.

Synn also has the build lifekatana showed me, so he's just being beligerent. What he meant to say was, shield 3 and 4 is not worth it until levels 13/14 simply as the prereq for Goddess.

Hoowever, as feedback for your specific build:

Any build with Entourage is fail.
2 extra shamblers adds hell of alot of DPS when under spike effect. Spike effect gets worse as armor goes up, so you need shamblers III earlier.

Shamblers IV helps for mulching since casting 2 at a time isn't enough late game (they die too fast). so it should be taken at some point as a life preserver, not becaus the boost to shambler stats is good (it is not), but most of the time you'll always have a shambler alive when you need to mulch right after casting them. Hell, the only reason to take shamblers II is because Shablers III gives you a nice firepower boost when your Spike armor reduction is at its peak effectiveness.

You should consider spike II at level 4 because you can actually cast it once in a battle then, and it will win the fight for you.

Mulch at level 5 is a maybe. Normally wave is better for a tactical slow. You are not really in any danger of dying at this point in the game so the heal only helps if you are in a close fight at the time you hit level 5 to make the enemy withdraw early, or lure to a surprise death.

Finally.
Always take shambler 1 at level 1 and cast at the start of the game. You get alot of DPS and monk killing ability out of them. You dont need shield right away to get to level 2, and you can't recast shamblers in the field at this point in the game.

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Quoting LORD-ORION,

reply 17

Even befoe I saw that build, unless I was running full minion queen I would not bother getting shield 3-4.

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awuffleablehedgie

Join Date 04/2009

+60

Quoting OMG_blackmage,

reply 16

Quoting OMG_BlackHatHedgehog, reply 15
Quoting OMG_blackmage, reply 13I'd rather try to snare you with spike wave then depend on that damage reduction.

On your last note, thats because ub is effing op, and le gains his strength from all the squealing fan girls when someone mentions a twilight movie.
You know that level 15 Spike Wave has a longer cooldown than Spike Wave I and II right? There is no reason to ever get the third point. So if you're getting that at 15 instead of Goddess, that's a mistake.

The answer to someone locking your portal is never let them get it in the first place. Except against Occulus, TB, and Erebus (Mass Charm) no one can just stand in your creep wave of Giants and beat you in a fight (especially with Ground Spikes). Now, sure, you can't stop them from porting out, and that kinda sucks but... When did I ever say I got level 3 spikewave? On that note that why would someone who can't andle a large creep wave try and even capture while a new fresh wave is coming out?

:sigh: If you think that Goddess of Thorns is useless and shouldn't get it (eg, "Shield III and IV is not even worth it, really") then what else are you getting at level 15 + those two earlier points? The most obvious thing would be Spike Wave III, which has the flaw I pointed out earlier.

Fresh waves come out every 31 seconds. So unless you try to capture just as the wave is leaving and past you (which takes several seconds, mind you, for giants in particular), you only have that 20-30 second window to fight, chase off mulching+shielding Queen then yellow it before you're being wailed on, and Queen pops open to Ground Spike you.

Now, if you chase her to her portal and she's oom, yeah, she can't fight and she can't interrupt a port-out even if she does win whatever fight. On the other hand, NO ONE who is oom can interrupt a port-out or secure a lock (with a Stun).

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Quoting LORD-ORION,

reply 17

Lifekatana is lurking. Maybe he will chime in.

Synn also has the build lifekatana showed me, so he's just being beligerent. What he meant to say was, shield 3 and 4 is not worth it until levels 13/14 simply as the prereq for Goddess.

Hoowever, as feedback for your specific build:

Any build with Entourage is fail.
2 extra shamblers adds hell of alot of DPS when under spike effect. Spike effect gets worse as armor goes up, so you need shamblers III earlier.

Shamblers IV helps for mulching since casting 2 at a time isn't enough late game (they die too fast). so it should be taken at some point as a life preserver, not becaus the boost to shambler stats is good (it is not), but most of the time you'll always have a shambler alive when you need to mulch right after casting them. Hell, the only reason to take shamblers II is because Shablers III gives you a nice firepower boost when your Spike armor reduction is at its peak effectiveness.

You should consider spike II at level 4 because you can actually cast it once in a battle then, and it will win the fight for you.

Mulch at level 5 is a maybe. Normally wave is better for a tactical slow. You are not really in any danger of dying at this point in the game so the heal only helps if you are in a close fight at the time you hit level 5 to make the enemy withdraw early, or lure to a surprise death.

Finally.
Always take shambler 1 at level 1 and cast at the start of the game. You get alot of DPS and monk killing ability out of them. You dont need shield right away to get to level 2, and you can't recast shamblers in the field at this point in the game.

I get spike II @ 4 as stated in the build. Disagreed about shambler 1 @ lvl 1, and it will be an agree to disagree. It's nice to pop a shield on your teammate / yourself to get the flags first and get that first advantage. I can see the advantages to the way you do it as well, but I prefer shielding to get flags first with little damage.

I don't get shamblers 4 because it's an extra 350 mana later in the game. They aren't going to last through 3 mulches so if you're mulching that much anyway it's nice to have the reduced price. Valid point on the extra damage part, I'll think about that at least and maybe try it out.

You can say entourage is crap, but it still adds more hp / dmg than more points in shamblers (although not 2 more shamblers), and it leads to tribute, which isn't the best skill, but an additional currency for yourself is nice to get that extra boost late game to get artifacts if it's come to that.

I've found mulch @ 5 can allow me to lure people into doing stupid things.. not noobs, but very good people who think they can kill a qot and chase a little too far, and I just mulch / shield to the crystal or 2 towers while my teammate(s) beat on them. But yes, sometimes I will get wave if I find I'm in need of it to get a kill (i.e. sedna has anklet and is being stupid thinking she can run away when she gets very low).

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Quoting OMG_blackmage,

reply 16

On that note that why would someone who can't andle a large creep wave try and even capture while a new fresh wave is coming out?

They don't have to.. you just have to survive long enough for the next creep wave to come out... which you can do.

You posted too much shit to quote and comment directly but apparently you don't like my paraphrasing of the crap you spew. A simple fix to that would be to spew less crap. "insta dying" and "as good as dead" are equal in my book, and I disagree with both. It doesn't matter which you said.. you're wrong either way. I'd rather discuss qot than semantics.

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Quoting OMG_BlackHatHedgehog,

reply 11

If you open up, you're vulnerable yes... that's why I said the damage reduction was good: it actually lets you open without dying.

I said that her "random" skills like Entourage, Compost and Uproot needed major help. Tribute is pretty meh. It should be +4 or +1 for everyone on your team.

Also, in general EVERYONE needs better level 15 skills. The only one with a bunch of awesome level 15 skills are pretty much Erebus and UB.

Bah I like DA's level 15's demon speed and the crit on warp strike are SWEEEEEEEEEET

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