LORD-ORION

Join Date 04/2009

+55

[MOD] Ranged AA focused Goggles

http://www.box.net/shared/z7r6mx5hg8

Basically, it removes the ranged proc penalties on certain items, and adds a 25% chance to do a 25% critical hit.

The reason? It's an attempt to see if we can make some anti-health stack AA builds with ranged characters. This ranged tank buster will get it's power from proc effects and crit chances. Of course, you must forgo mana and health items of your own in order to use some of the listed items.

Thanks to Pacov for spurring the discussion, and miriyaka for implementing the mod after watching my multiple extreme fail attempts.

Affected Items (these items normally proc less on ranged chars, but now proc at the same rate as melee using goggles)

Gauntlets of Despair
new WeaponProcChance = 15,
old WeaponProcChanceRanged = 10,

Wyrmskin handguards
new WeaponProcChance = 15,
old WeaponProcChanceRanged = 8,

Doomsprite
new GripsWeaponProcChance = 25,
old WeaponProcChanceRanged = 16,

Gloves of Fell-Darkur
new WeaponProcChance = 20,
old WeaponProcChanceRanged = 13,

Nature's Reckoning
new WeaponProcChance = 15,
old WeaponProcChanceRanged = 10,

Unmaker
new WeaponProcChance = 20,
old WeaponProcChanceRanged = 13,

Note: Some items have the same original range and melee proc rates, so are unaffected.

Thuergist's hat = 5%
Forest Band = 15%

PS: Goggle Crit + Nature's Rec proc hurts when it happens.

So, discuss, and speculate on some functional ranged AA builds.

eg: Hybrid Reg New Goggles Opening
1x Snipe
1x Maim
2x mine
1x mark of the Betrayer
1x Fury
1x Mine

Items
Sceled Helm
Guantlets of Brutality
Totem of Revelation (+17 total vision haha)
Banded
Unbreakable
Nature's Rec
Gauntelets -> Wyrmskin
Scaled -> Nimoth
Banded -> Duelists

You can hit like a freight train and nobody who has to run is escaping on foot. Of course LE is going to eat you for lunch if you over extend and you only have the mana for clinch skill use.

What about potential builds for Frost TB and Offensive QoT? Maybe even Occ with king of the minotaurs.

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pacov

Join Date 02/2008

+183

So this is sorted? Eg have the modding guys saying a-ok?

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miriyaka went out of his way an wrote it so i assume that it is the most well written mod around (ie completely nondestructive ) lol

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nb : mind if i steal this and add it to my enfos mod?

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Yes, miriyaka did it and I tested it,

eg: Count 100 shots and see how many times it procs.... closer to melee proc rate then ranged proc rate.

One interesting thing is the start point of nature's rec now. If I am not mistaken the focal point for the ranged proc begins at the weapon impact point, where as now it starts at the DG and extends to the weapon proc point, and then spreads. Looks nifty,

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pacov

Join Date 02/2008

+183

So - just to reiterate and make sure I understand. The original code (eg not using this mod) makes it so ranged characters have less of a chance to proc specific items. For instance:

Nature's Reckoning
new WeaponProcChance = 15,
old WeaponProcChanceRanged = 10,

In the original code, melee users would proc 15% of the time. While a ranged character would proc 10% of the time. Am I following that much right? If so, follow up question: do you have to choose the googles to get the proc change (from 10 to 15) or is this mod actually changing the proc rate for all dgs regardless of whether or not they choose goggles. I assume you get the bonus only if you go goggles, but would like clarification - modders can be sneaky

I still don't necessarily think this is enough of a buff to be on the same level as BOTF, BOTS, swift ank, etc though. Sounds like a good step in the right direction. If this also provided a 5% speed boost, I'd be all over it on a few diff dgs and would choose it over the top favor items. Wondering if that's overkill though.

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You must choose goggles to get the melee proc rate if you are ranged. You are correct in your assumption of lower proc rates for ranged chars.

Do not forget that it also has a 25% chance for a 25% crit.

For the most part you're are choosing from nature's rec and or wrymskin to proc early game. These both do damage on the proc so they are good choices.

I see this working when it is a 2on2 in the lane. As long as you have someone to hide behind, you are doing really good AA damage,

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pacov

Join Date 02/2008

+183

Going to have to get some folks to help test this puppy out then. Mayhaps I'll check with the omg folks and see if they'd be willing to assist.

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doesnt really sound like its better then blood

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Quoting OMG-howboutnoooo,

reply 8

doesnt really sound like its better then blood

The potential for a multiple proc crit (goggle crit + item crit) or item damage proc (nature's rec) can throw things into chaos. Although crit procs are the same on ranged, getting 2 item crits simultaneously is something new and it hurts. (eg: goggle crit + slayer or duelist crit)

try frost TB with RoI and frost aura focus

start with banded, brutality and mana potion
aim for replacing brutality with nature's rec and upgrading armor to duelists in there at the end = AA ouchie

Thinking it might be too good on QoT with gloves of FellDarkur, Duelists and Nature's rec considering spikes IV. We are talking about frequent Ashkandor level hits for 1/2 the price in gear if you do not stack your armor. Although that is alot of gear, it is not unreasonable for a game if QoT is being selfish.

Regardless, it makes a good case for Duelists + nature's rec, because the usefulness of a lucky goggle proc, nature's rec proc and duelists proc cannot be ignored when it comes to playing a game of sigil chicken.

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Yeah, I confirmed that the IsMelee flag is being set and kept when the goggles are purchased.

The crit is nice both because of the unexpected high-damage hits from multiple crits/procs, and because its effectiveness scales up linearly with other increases in both damage and ROF. Just adding 30-40 damage or something would be better in the first 5 minutes, but then much weaker once the sigils start flying and health hits 4000-5000.

For reference, 1.25x @ 25% averages out to 6.25% more DPS over time, compared to:

5% for Duelists', 1.5x @ 10%

10% for Slayer's, 2x @ 10%

20% for Ashkandor, 4x @ 10%

20% for DA's Precision IV, 1.5x @ 40%

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pacov

Join Date 02/2008

+183

Played a game using this (just against ai, so can only tell so much) as speed fire tb (or as speedy as you can get with going all fire with boots of speed). I think I still prefer the swift anklet over this for that build, but the problem was that I didn't maximize my style of play for this item. I did go a damage build and at one point in the game and was stacking crits, but it didn't matter much as you can typically chase down folks, even after they sigil with fire tb. I'm going to try full aa reg (who is prob best for this item)

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pacov

Join Date 02/2008

+183

So - I've gotten a few of the omg fellas to join me, but they all appear to be using a diff version of the mod than I am. I'm using the 1 in this thread...

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The version in this thread is 1.1

The old version in the other thread is 1.0, check that.

Dumb on my part I guess, naming it the same goggles.zip.

However, the old download version should not work since I deleted it.

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What would be good is if the favor item increased the characters range also (taking the demigod just out of tower of light range but still in archer tower range). That way it really would perhaps work in competitive games IMHO. Autoattack Ice TB would be EPIC!!!

Reg wouldn't need a point in range, or could if you so choose get massive range

But yeah, for a ranged autoattack build to work, the ranged demigod really has to be able to do a decent amount of damage before the melee demigod gets close.

Just a suggestion

(Edit: I think the current consensus is this item really doesn't compete with BotF/BotS etc... at all. I think this is a sensible buff that we should at least try out. Also, Goggles making you hit a bit further and increasing your precision (critical hits) does kinda make sense? Yeah? If it's still not enough, we could adjust the crit hit ratio again I suppose.)

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awuffleablehedgie

Join Date 04/2009

+60

Armor penetration, or attaches an armor debuff if you're lazy. But making it ignore a % of the armor mitigation or reducing a # of Armor would make it scale better (the problem with an armor debuff is MORE mid-game damage stacking on top of Bite, Ground Spikes, Pentitence and also level 1 an armor debuff would be very powerful since it puts you into negative armor % unless you're an Assassin who got Scailmail)

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Nature's Rec, Wyrmskin and FellDarkur procs do not get mitigated by armor. Are you seriously telling me that TB with frost mode dmg, Nature's Rec and Duelists is not good AA potential over the usual AA damage? It's not like he can't cast the same skills taking goggles.

Now look at Miriyaka's post and see that these new goggles fall in overall DPS crit increase effectiveness between Duelists's and Slayers.

I don't see how you can justify giving something an effectiveness that borders on 4 skill points or items you don't get to buy in normal games.

I also get the impression that you expect immediate gratification for taking the item to own the best players in the game.... that can't happen. This should be an alternate way to play while maintaining the balance of laneing.

Range increases are bad on QoT because of the AA rapid attack bug (we did this in the LOP mod), so I can't bring myself to do it.
Also, since when does TB or QoT have a problem with towers? Both have high ranged AA without the item (QOT has minions, Tb has frost mode increase) and on top of that QoT has an armor reduction skill and TB has a freeze.

I'm not disagreeing that it is not good enough as it is, but I'd like to play a few games with the 1337 to get a feel for what you are saying so I can make the right change.

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I think this thing is ok as-is, but it doesn't bring some kind of magical balance to the favor item lineup. BotF is just too powerful. If you really want to balance favor items, you've gotta do all of them at once, which includes nerfing BotF a bit.

And then you have to lower maxhealth amounts on all other items as well, or you still end up with so much health that you can't properly balance offensive items (because making them effective vs stacked health makes them too powerful against anyone that doesn't mega-stack health).

Yeah.

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