Uproot Discussion

LORD-ORION

Join Date 04/2009

+55

Uproot Discussion

What to do with this skill since it is never taken?

Some things to know 1st.

1- Uproot synergizes with compost, and 1 point in compost has more damage potential than 1 point of uproot.

1 point in uproot = 500 damage over 10 seconds
compost 1 = 200-600 uproot damage over 10 seconds
Compost 2 = 400-800 uproot damage over 10 seconds
Compost 3 = 600-1000 uproot damage over 10 seconds

2- Uproot vital stats
Range: 20
Damage per level: 500,1000,1500,2000 (this is over 10 seconds)
Mana cost: 425, 585, 745, 905
Cooldown 15

Some problems to consider

1) Compost needs to be balanced, as it is nowhere near as effective as 1 point in morale. (eg: 1 point in morale = 40 minion damage, 3 points in compost = 48 minion damage, almost 1/3 as ineffective as morale for minions)

If compost is fixed to be a choice over morale, does this suddenly make uproot a more viable skill because the damage can be increased by a vast amount? (don't answer this yet)

2) Uproot is a counter to tower rook.

Rook Towers- Cooldown 10, mana 400 (200 @level 10)
I- 1500 health
II- 1950 health
III- 2400 health
IV- 2850 health

So, if you have compost III, you do have the potential to take down a rook tower in one shot if you have the equivalent level of uproot vs tower. So at level 8, queen has the potential to kill a tower III or tower IV in one shot if she has compost III + equivalent uproot.

3) Uproot becomes less of a safe skill to use as the game goes on.
It's range is a constant 20
Casting time is only 0.5, BUT follow through time is 1.0, so you are immobile for 1.5 seconds firing this skill.

Many skills can already hit you using this skill (TB's damage skills, spit is range 15, Batswarm is 20)
Warpstrike becomes range 20 at level 2, and 25 at level IV
Batswarm II is range 30, so far exceeds your range.

So, let's assume that compost becomes a desirable skill and you'll have it, when deciding what to do with uproot.
What does uproot need in this case, if anything?

Is uproot fine as it is with compost damage potential added? If no, should it have more damage?
Should uproot get a mana decrease to be a more direct counter to kill rook towers?
Should uproot get a range increase to make it safer to "siege" with as the game goes on?

Any other ideas to adjust stats without doing something radical? (like make it heal friendly towers )

Thanks for any feedback.

demigod

Locked Post

Advanced Search

Watch this post

Do not email me updates for this post Email me updates for this post

Successfully updated karma reason!

An extraordinary sense of humour. Tons of good taste, too. Your jokes are second only to your exceptional skills as a Rook.

[NB: I really need this thread bumped ]

Successfully updated karma reason!

If Demiwiki is right compost diminishes every 7 seconds.

I´ve just played a game with uproot 1 and compost 3. It´s strange because the cap is at compost VI (bug?) which means the maximum damage with uproot 1 is 170 dps.

I´ll will test if compost 3 is senseless to get since buff cap seems to be 6 (and not 9 as compost 3 would indicate?)

Successfully updated karma reason!

Ah, I see. That answers my question.

Successfully updated karma reason!

So, I've played once again and it seems the following:

Compost 1 (max. III) = Maximum increase 3*20

Compost 2 (max. V) = Maximum increase 5*20

Compost 3 (max. VI) = Maximum increase 6*20

So, compost has diminishing returns which nerfes it even more but higher compost level start higher though (compost 3 starts at Buff III)

It was funny to play against the AI, but against human players I would prefer a pure closed build if I go a minion build.

(Well, or maybe later, when I'm more firm in playing the game)

Successfully updated karma reason!

Well, I played around with an Uproot QoT (BS I, GS III, Uproot III by level 7) lately. Surprisingly enough, it is an efficient build on high towers settings, when both sides are skilled and even. I find it considerably safer and less time/money-consuming to pull off than other corner tower demolishing staples, and QoT has a lot of space for maneuver skill-wise 1-10, anyway. However, Uproot is a total waste of skill points on normal towers or in a situation when QoT shares a lane with a squishy DG (DA, for example).

Successfully updated karma reason!

Quoting OMG__IN1,

reply 24

quoting post
1- Uproot synergizes with compost, and 1 point in compost has more damage potential than 1 point of uproot.

1 point in uproot = 500 damage over 10 seconds
compost 1 = 200-600 uproot damage over 10 seconds
Compost 2 = 400-800 uproot damage over 10 seconds
Compost 3 = 600-1000 uproot damage over 10 seconds

Sorry for necroing this.

Can LO explain this to me? The damage bonus per tick is 20 (I), 40 (II), 60 (III) per every 3 units composted, right? Which means, potentially we have, indeed, 20-60 per tick with Compost I (200-600), but 40-120 per tick with Compost II (400-1200) and 60-180 per tick with Compost III (600-1800). Am I reading it all wrong?

Also, what is the buff's duration? In other words, how long does it take the composted unit counter to decrement?

Sorry missed this because I was away for a bit. Plague did a good job explaining it, but here are some more details.

Compost actually has 6 effect levels in code, but it is badly broken without uberfix. Basically you cannot reach effect level VI in ODG, and there is a bug where scoring too many kills actually resets the effect level before the 7 second timer diminishes it.

in ODG

Compost I = Effect level I,II,III
Compost II = Effect Level II,III,IV
Compost III = Effect Level III,IV,V but there is a problem, when you hit effect V and get 3 more kills, you drop back to IV. (oops)

In UberFix it works more like Soul Power now

Compost I = Effect Level I,II,III,IV
Compost II = Effect Level II,III,IV,V
Compost III = Effect Level III,IV,V,VI

Damage for uproot is 20 per effect level
Damage for Shamblers starts at 4 and goes up 2 per effect level. So 4,6,8,10,12.14

In uberfix, 1 point in compost is not bad, as long as you have 4 shamblers.

That gives you 40 ranged area damage potential for 1 point invested (though only 20DPS because of the low ROF on shamblers)

Compared vs Morale which gives 4 damage to all your minions

So that brings up the question; is 1 point in uproot OK if you take 1 point in compost? I think so in uberfix anyways.

The 1st point in compost is OK for Shambler damage, and that can give you 1300 damage on uproot I for 425 mana. That's pretty fantastic to weaken towers safely before you push, and you can easily take out the center archer towers this way. (fire off an uproot when you are capping the centre flag)

Successfully updated karma reason!

Thanks a lot, L-O. The reason I decided against incorporating Uproot+Compost combo into my Uberfix build is the latter being a blatantly opportunistic skill. I. e., you must kill a creepwave for it to be efficient. While that works in mid-level matches, and admirably so, pro opponents won't let you do it as often as necessary to justify the skill point investment.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Quoting LORD-ORION,

reply 31

But when you are at the center it's difficult to get counters for compost. You could farm the middle (if you dare and steal the creeps from your teammates) with GS and then use uproot.

Skills for mainly open form maybe:

1. GS1 --> uproot1 --> compost1 --> GS2 --> SW1 --> BS1 --> GS3 --> BS2 --> save --> GS4/SW2 --> ...

2. GS1 --> uproot1 --> compost1 --> GS2 --> SW1 --> shamblers1 --> GS3 --> mulch1 --> save --> GS4/SW2 or mulch2 --> ...

For a closed minion build you could skip points in morale.

But I wonder if it is really worth it, since GS is nice for tearing down towers also and for a closed build your minions lack a little bit of power. Could also be an idea to get compost and uproot later in the game but will it work? The idea to push towers early is nice though.

Well, just some thoughts about it.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Quoting Plaguewraith,

reply 33

Quoting LORD-ORION, reply 31
The 1st point in compost is OK for Shambler damage, and that can give you 1300 damage on uproot I for 425 mana. That's pretty fantastic to weaken towers safely before you push, and you can easily take out the center archer towers this way. (fire off an uproot when you are capping the centre flag)

But when you are at the center it's difficult to get counters for compost. You could farm the middle (if you dare and steal the creeps from your teammates) with GS and then use uproot.

Skills for mainly open form maybe:

1. GS1 --> uproot1 --> compost1 --> GS2 --> SW1 --> BS1 --> GS3 --> BS2 --> save --> GS4/SW2 --> ...

or

2. GS1 --> uproot1 --> compost1 --> GS2 --> SW1 --> shamblers1 --> GS3 --> mulch1 --> save --> GS4/SW2 or mulch2 --> ...

?

For a closed minion build you could skip points in morale.

But I wonder if it is really worth it, since GS is nice for tearing down towers also and for a closed build your minions lack a little bit of power. Could also be an idea to get compost and uproot later in the game but will it work? The idea to push towers early is nice though.

Well, just some thoughts about it.

You generally cap the middle after dealing with a wave... You can also be a dick and kill both creep waves when it comes out of their towers. Also I'll add that the corner towers should be down, so you can use Uproot to weaken the 2 towers guarding the portal flag when you are facing a team that is preventing you from going in deep.

You'd probably do best to play it as a variant of Pacov's damage Queen. You lose a bit of focused damage potential by dropping morale and putting 3 points in Shambler to gain 4 much tougher shamblers and more AoE damage, at which point you can sub 1 point of morale for 1 point of Compost. The option part becomes taking a point of uproot instead of saving for wave II.

Also, always go Shambler I 1st as QoT. You can't afford to cast them unless you are at base, and they really are good at helping kill enemy monks.

eg: In UBERFIX (can't stress this enough)
Shambler I
GS I
Save
Shambler II + GS II
Wave I
Save
Shambler III + GS III
Compost I
Uproot 1
GS IV
Wave II
Morale

Successfully updated karma reason!