I agree that I think it would be more important to drop the tower and help out a lane that isn't going well. Getting some extra farm bot is good, but it doesn't really make up for hardcore zoning/underlvl/farm of another lane if you could help set up a gank. Hard to find good junglers sometimes.

So I was thinking about how I learn and get better at games.  With Demigod, it was just through repetition (eg playing a ton).  Once in awhile I'd see someone using a different favor item and then I'd try that out.  Probably about 95% of my builds were just what I decided to build and go with.  And I'd occasionally watch a replay here and there.  Anyway, mostly I just got better by playing ALOT. 

With LoL, I feel like I get better by primarily by watching live streams or recorded videos of folks using a character.  I feel like I'm particularly good at emulating an individuals play style after watching them for a little bit.  And I'm really only watching folks with extremely high elos, so I know I'm learning from solid players.  I find its MUCH easier than just playing a game and trying to pick up things that other players do well.  That said, I was in a game with karl when he used rammus and I did my best to pay attention to where he'd go, when he'd try to gank, etc, and that helped alot in and of itself.  I still read a lot of guides for input on builds - then, after trying all that crap out, I eventually come up with what I feel works best.  

It's a lot of that situational stuff that I don't get and that's hard for me to figure out and put into practice.  I understand that we should all group up at X time and occasionally have someone split push.  What I don't get is when should you really split push.  Me, I see the logic putting 4 folks at the middle to draw attention while someone else would push a lane to try to drop a tower, but that only really works if the group of 4 chooses not to engage.  But then that leaves 4 people doing next to nothing or (what typically happens) is that they engage and then someone decides to yell at the guy that was clearly not there. 

Other things I haven't quite figured out - when to focus a tower vs grabbing baron or dragon.  When I'm playing with some of you more experienced folks, I typically defer to you, but the reasoning doesn't always make sense to me.

When should you push a lane if its 2v1 or 2v2... I get the basics, but not everything.  For instance, let's say its 2v2.  My teammate and I kill one and put some hurt on the other.  The other guy is either waiting around unseen, or has tp'd or will tp back to base.  Do we push the lane and use our current advantage or just last hit?  Stuff like that I'm not sure about.  I get solo lane logic very well anyway.

Random question about rammus - If I'm using my q and use my flash, will I still stay in rolling form?

No, when you play low ELO ranked games, there's almost always some moron that bitches about everything, typically while sucking themselves...  I'm stuck in the 1k range instead of the 1200's, and it's like junior high.

Useful feedback can be pretty rare, but negative comes aplenty.

Thanks guys - I appreciate the feedback.  Positive and negative are great.

Just been pugging tonight.  Playing leona (on sale for rp).  I'm digging her (though I don't have all the right runes for her atm).  Anyway, just playing super tanky.  Was running flash/tp, but I'm thinking tp isn't valuable enough, so I'll prob pick something else that might be more useful.

yeah - i was thinking that as well.  I went promote with mixed results last game.  It's been too weird, though.  As soon as I drop TP, I magically end up at leona mid.  It's a strange, terrifying world.  Man - the low damage output is rough for me, but I'm getting used to it.  Her cc's are very handy.  I think she might become my main tank, but we'll see.  Only played like 5 games total with her. 

OK - here's what I'm thinking.  If I'm trying out new characters or feel like I'm crap with them, I'm going to stick with normal games.  Otherwise, I'm going to start playing ranked more often.  If there is 1 person around that is comfortable going ranked, I'll give them an invite to queue with me.  I generally don't have 5 folks on at the same time that would be willing to play ranked, though.  I really wish my best character was slightly more respected in ranks, though.  I like that gragas pretty much never gets a ban, but he's not exactly recommended for ranked.  I honestly don't think he needs a buff, but I won't complain if he does.  Anyway, sticking with my prediction that rammus will get a little bit of a nerf to either his taunt or speed ball.

I think gragas is great as well, ofc. 

I would put leblanc into tier 4 or 5 as well.  She's like a brand that can only focus 1 target.  This is great for 1v1 mid, but then its just trying to pick off individual targets.  She's fun to play and I've seen some folks play her extremely well, but i just don't think she's as valuable late game.  

Well, I'm personally rubbish with him, but I've watched quite a few streams from high level games lately and almost always someone is using him. 

My first game went awful...

Vs. AI as an experiment, and I played as Renekton 'cuz he's free...

Our team:

Heimerdinger

Katarina

Vayne

Renekton (me)

Orianna (left and didn't come back in the first 5 secs of the game)

Opposition:

Cho'Gath

Renekton

Annie

Ashe

Soraka

I started out solo top against Ashe and Soraka...

I died 9 times in the lane, getting Soraka to level 13 or so in the process, and she just wiped the rest of the team out afterwards... I managed to push after they left for mid. I smashed in three towers and an inhibitor on top until Cho'Gath and Soraka killed me...

After that it was just everyone running mid and getting killed by Annie and Soraka...

Final stats:

2/24/9

I really STANK!

Is this expected for a first game?

Or am I REALLY BAD?

Generally speaking, yes.  Especially if you had someone quit on you and folks are inexperienced.  I'd really recommend playing the tutorial if you have not - you get a good amount of IP for doing that - should be enough to unlock one of the cheaper characters.

Once you get used to playing against the AI, any AD or AP carry can pretty easily dominate.  Basically, all you need to do is get mejias soulstealer if you are AP champ or sword of the occult for AD.  Those items increase your AP or AD for every kill and assist you get to a pretty substantial amount... and thats for like 1k gold.  The downside is that those items are generally very impractical in normal games, but extremely practical vs AI. 

Here's how to beat the AI.  Get in a lane with one other person.  The AI is quite dumb and predictable as to who it will try to attack.  It goes after whoever has the lowest health.  So if there are 2 of you in a lane and your buddy has lower health, have him move towards the ai, but just out of range.  The AI will lock onto him.  This frees you to go in for an attack and then your partner can join in.  The AI is super easy to kite like this once you get the hang of it.  After you nab a few kills, get one of those items I mentioned and keep killing.  Before you know it, you will be very well fed and be able to buy whatever you need.

yup.  I'd suggest looking over some build guides over on mobafire as well.  It will help you understand decent items and a good order to choose abilities.  Feel free to add me or anyone and I'll show you how to work the AI. 

I was just thinking about the type of games I usually play and was curious if any of you do the same thing.  I always play 1 or 2 games vs AI if I'm trying a brand new character or someone I've never used before.  I do that as well if I'm trying a brand new build that sounds a little crazy to me. Then, I mostly play normal games as a pug or with pals.  And then my graduate level is playing ranked with characters that I feel I'm decent with (though somehow I ended up as garen in one). 

We all have to start somewhere. I had never played ANY DOTA style games before getting into LOL. I did absolutely terrible in the beginning. I'm not going into specifics, but it took me far too long to figure out how tower aggro worked So don't feel bad.

The Tutorial is a good way to start like others said. Get a feel for last hitting minions, the range of different champ spells, learning summoner spells and when to use them, etc. There are tons of resources for you to learn things: Player streams, solomid build guides, new players LOL forum, among others.

In my experience, I found it a lot easier to master ranged champs first.

Gragas is fine in ranked.  In fact, he can open up things in terms of bans since playing Gragas means that you dont have to ban Morgana since Grag can stand up to Morg and his ult counters her ult to some degree.

ooo - i thought you were opposed to grag in ranked.  excellent.  And yes, ranked team forming must happen very, very soon.

patching now...

Thanks for the game last night folks. I thought we all played well. Karl, you are so brave with Panth haha. I caught on to your playstyle eventually. Panth and Janna was actually a pretty good combo. Pacov, your Rammus has improved nicely. Just make sure not to dragon when Karl and I are almost dead haha.