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A table of allowed/banned combos for a 2v2 tourney - discuss

demigod
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OMGIN1
OMG_ZEX
Join Date 08/2008
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Reply #26 January 20, 2012 3:07:16 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

since when is DA a threat at all? 

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OMGIN1
OMGIN1
Join Date 12/2011
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Reply #27 January 20, 2012 3:27:41 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

TB can be used with 7 other combos

Well, that's probably because I rate him the lowest of all T2 characters. I think I'm justified in that: IMHO, the only TB that has both power and utility is the hybrid; the quantity of highly skilled hybrid players amounts to one (Darkliath) these days. Most of top-tier players play pure Fire or Ice, neither of which is amazing.

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OMGIN1
nnnils
Join Date 01/2010
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Reply #28 January 20, 2012 3:44:37 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Quoting OMG_ZEX,
reply 26
since when is DA a threat at all?
since hes been played properly..

Quoting OMGIN1,
reply 27
Well, that's probably because I rate him the lowest of all T2 characters. I think I'm justified in that: IMHO, the only TB that has both power and utility is the hybrid; the quantity of highly skilled hybrid players amounts to one (Darkliath) these days. Most of top-tier players play pure Fire or Ice, neither of which is amazing.

pure fire is strong 2v2..

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OMGIN1
Darkliath
Join Date 04/2010
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Reply #29 January 20, 2012 5:16:00 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

I don't know much about the combos, so I am fine with any (in other words, leaving it to more experienced players).

Quoting nnnils,
reply 12
rook/da beat occ/sed.. why u wanna allow rook/qot then

Quoting nnnils,
reply 25
oak/tb get ass-fucked heavily by rook/da.. so get sed/tb

Really...

If you focus nnnils first though, the combo is not such a big problem (bigger problem is nnnils). {This was tested in multiple me+[skilled player] vs nnnils + [not skilled player] and whenever nnnils was focused first, we nearly always won}

Quoting awuffleablehedgie,
reply 14
Anyway, I'm going to mention that part of this may be a meta thing. How us old pros played is possibly very different than how you guys do. The amount of health stacking in old games was obscene. It's possible that you guys don't do it quite as much. This obviously changes a few of the different stronger builds (like Rook/QoT).

Or you guys are being more passive/etc. Lots of different reasons.

Yeah. Probably it was played differently then. Currently the core of most builds is Nature's reckoning, Wyrmskin gloves, Duelist's armor and the rest depends. Maybe boots, maybe more damage. Favor items also are something more usual like Poisoned dagger, Swift anklet. We use sigils, though.

About the aggressiveness... Gameplay is pretty passive, then someone goes suddenly aggressive, so all do the same for a bit. After a fight or retreat, back to the passive mode again.

Quoting Running_Lucas,
reply 16
Why don't you make the tourney rules that each player may use each demigod only once. Then from 10 games they must play every demigod and their teammate too. So if they go a powerful combo in their first game, after that they have limited choices. Wouldn't this show who the ultimate DG players are overall?

Very good idea. This would show how many players can't play multiple demigods (I may not participate, because I am lazy to play all games... Not like I can't play other demigods, of course ).

Quoting OMG_ZEX,
reply 26
since when is DA a threat at all?

He isn't. Just players are not skilled enough to counter his two skill in a second combo.

Quoting OMGIN1,
reply 27
I think I'm justified in that: IMHO, the only TB that has both power and utility is the hybrid; the quantity of highly skilled hybrid players amounts to one (Darkliath) these days. Most of top-tier players play pure Fire or Ice, neither of which is amazing.

Pure lies. The most powerful TB is Petrdol82. He has some very good tricks and beats even UB and Rook. Another strong one is Golix_. He has such great skills with Ice TB, that he doesn't even need skills to kill enemies. Pure auto attack damage is enough for that.

Quoting nnnils,
reply 28
pure fire is strong 2v2..

Maybe he knows what he is talking about. I don't.

 

 

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OMGIN1
nnnils
Join Date 01/2010
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Reply #30 January 20, 2012 6:03:00 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

lol

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OMGIN1
SnowWhiteOnCrack
Join Date 02/2010
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Reply #31 January 20, 2012 6:07:06 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Quoting nnnils,
reply 25
oak/tb get ass-fucked heavily by rook/da.. so get sed/tb

 

just fucking lolz, you have to learn much newfag

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OMGIN1
OMGIN1
Join Date 12/2011
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Reply #32 January 20, 2012 6:13:11 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

The most powerful TB is Petrdol82. He has some very good tricks and beats even UB and Rook. Another strong one is Golix_. He has such great skills with Ice TB, that he doesn't even need skills to kill enemies. Pure auto attack damage is enough for that.

Lol (: Jakins actually loves Petrdol's build and wants to play it every time he plays a TB now.

Currently the core of most builds is Nature's reckoning, Wyrmskin gloves, Duelist's armor

Don't forget Desperate Boots (:

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OMGIN1
nnnils
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Reply #33 January 20, 2012 6:22:44 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Quoting Annon_,
reply 31
just fucking lolz, you have to learn much newfag
who are you anyway

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OMGIN1
SnowWhiteOnCrack
Join Date 02/2010
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Reply #34 January 20, 2012 7:03:23 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Quoting nnnils,
reply 33

Quoting Annon_, reply 31just fucking lolz, you have to learn much newfagwho are you anyway

 

We are Anonymous. We are Legion. We do not forgive. We do not forget. Expect us

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OMGIN1
OMGIN1
Join Date 12/2011
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Reply #35 January 20, 2012 7:22:36 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Well, as you can tell by inimitable expressive writing style, it's our Polish friend [Insert Color Here]-One- (: I, personally, am a daltonic, so I cannot really discriminate green from red.

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OMGIN1
SnowWhiteOnCrack
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Reply #36 January 20, 2012 7:55:02 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Quoting OMGIN1,
reply 35
Well, as you can tell by inimitable expressive writing style, it's our Polish friend [Insert Color Here]-One- (: I, personally, am a daltonic, so I cannot really discriminate green from red.

 

 

damn I can't belive you still treat me like one of them and what is more I will never get bored of pretend being one of them ^-^, neverending fun , sounds good to me ; )

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awuffleablehedgie
Join Date 04/2009
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Reply #37 January 21, 2012 12:48:19 AM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Good luck fighting a skilled UB with a monk after level 5 with Sedna.

Think that's pretty funny since that's what I used to do against Orcun. (in Sed/TB). 

Well, no. Sed is useless in this matchup.

Agreed. But you gotta do something with her. Can't put her at the health crystal. 

Maybe because they don't play her that much, and so have less awareness of her serious weaknesses making her a poor 2v2 DG (and a good 1v1/3v3 DG, btw). But then again, maybe I'm the one being subjective with that list... So I have changed it to better suit the general public taste (:

Assuming no minion builds and no Rook, Sedna does just fine in 2v2... Her timings are just way different than in 3v3 (she's way stronger endgame 2v2 than she is in 3v3). 

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OMGIN1
pacov
Join Date 02/2008
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Reply #38 January 21, 2012 12:57:06 AM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Quoting awuffleablehedgie,
reply 37
(she's way stronger endgame 2v2 than she is in 3v3

Yup - completely agree there.  Emphasis on ENDGAME ofc, though. 

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OMGIN1
pacov
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Reply #39 January 21, 2012 12:59:10 AM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Anyway... I'd wager you are about done with the character selection rules... now just to finalize your other rules, have folks register, and set a date.  Hope it goes smoothly!

 

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OMGIN1
OMGIN1
Join Date 12/2011
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Reply #40 January 21, 2012 1:32:21 AM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Think that's pretty funny since that's what I used to do against Orcun. (in Sed/TB). 

Used to do that vs Orcun... All right. Then I still have a lot to learn. Care to provide a replay? (: Hope it's not from those HoL days, though.

Personal experience, quite rich by this point: I can harass and out-push either stupid or squishy UBs just fine. I won't ever risk it vs, say, Zen or nnnils, who are neither. Considering my build is much more suited for, well, staying alive than yours is, I'm at loss here.

As a side note: honestly, I have no idea how you used to stay alive in 3v3s with that crawling Sedna. Even after Silence 2... One doesn't want to spend thousands on those TP scrolls, I guess. The same is true for any 1v1 vs a good adequately geared 'monked' UB: as much staying power as you can have, he'll just AA+Ooze+Grasp+Spit you to death sooner or later. And you can't even get away before 10 if the situation gets bad, since the only DG you can outrun with your build is Rook. I find it hard to believe in magic; I do believe in simple math, though (:

Assuming no minion builds and no Rook, Sedna does just fine in 2v2... 

Well... Sedna is extremely synergy-dependent. In 3v3, a good Sed (1) keeps her team alive and (2) secures kills. In 2v2, which is naturally much more isolated, she has to do someone else's job. She's pretty bad at that, too. Comparatively speaking, of course.

Her timings are just way different than in 3v3 (she's way stronger endgame 2v2 than she is in 3v3). 

Timings? Of getting skills/items?

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awuffleablehedgie
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Reply #41 January 21, 2012 2:01:07 AM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Personal experience, quite rich by this point: I can harass and out-push either stupid or squishy UBs just fine. I won't ever risk it vs, say, Zen or nnnils, who are neither. Considering my build is much more suited for, well, staying alive than yours is, I'm at loss here.

To be fair, I don't have a lot of 2v2 games against Orcun, and even fewer wins (most of my wins tend to come when there was an Assassin Erebus on their team). But it was more of a technical skill than anything in that he was simply a better player than me. 

The theory does work though. It mostly comes down to forcing a critical level 2/3 engagement that's properly timed (you'll barely win it). 

Timings? Of getting skills/items?

Knowing what levels and relative item levels you have auto-win and auto-lose situations. 

Like level 4 erebus beats level 4 sedna with hp flag.

But level 5 ereubs with hp flag loses to level 5 sedna.

So rather than fight the flag at four and drop you low, you harrass a little, let him burn some mana, wait until 5, take it back.

 ---
 
Regarding the whole "how you stay alive". It's mostly just positioning. If what Dark said is true with people using things like Poison Dagger, DA (his ganks are brutal on my slow Sedna build, I did have to change it up against him), I can see that how I played would definitely change things and probably not work as well in some ways. 
 
Also, BotF massively massively changes the timings of when you can and can't do things. 
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OMGIN1
OMGIN1
Join Date 12/2011
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Reply #42 January 21, 2012 2:21:45 AM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Knowing what levels and relative item levels you have auto-win and auto-lose situations. 

Like level 4 erebus beats level 4 sedna with hp flag.

But level 5 ereubs with hp flag loses to level 5 sedna.

So rather than fight the flag at four and drop you low, you harrass a little, let him burn some mana, wait until 5, take it back.

Yes, a standard build (not +++ strong minions) Erb begins to get out-pushed by Sed after 5. After 8 he's really screwed up, given equal levels/comparable gear (and NR on Sed, probably).

 

If what Dark said is true with people using things like Poison Dagger, DA (his ganks are brutal on my slow Sedna build, I did have to change it up against him)

Lol, no. She was being sarcastic (: Some things are more fashionable than they were in your epoch, no doubt (for example, QoT is played considerably more than Sed, the most popular skilled UB build is Vial UB, etc.). Overall, I'd say there is slightly less of a hp stacking cult, and people are generally bolder trying out unorthodox builds. Poison Dagger is consistently used by several TBs, but they are... not very good (;

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GM-McShane87
Join Date 04/2009
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Reply #43 January 21, 2012 2:33:41 AM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Quoting nnnils,
reply 25
oak/tb get ass-fucked heavily by rook/da.. so get sed/tb

Lol whaaaaaaaaaa?   I guess none of these new steam players are any good yet, the lack of competition has driven you insane nnnils!

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OMGIN1
nnnils
Join Date 01/2010
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Reply #44 January 21, 2012 6:51:51 AM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

well since there are not many good players leftt I justput that out tere hehe.. anyway feel free to play it out vs me and yellow

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OMGIN1
Darkliath
Join Date 04/2010
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Reply #45 January 21, 2012 12:15:05 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Quoting OMGIN1,
reply 42
Lol, no. She was being sarcastic (:

I wasn't being sarcastic. People actually do that. I do that too. Some people also get armor of vengeance and desperate boots, but I think those are a bit more expensive items (not the core). Don't believe me? - Play some matches. Not everyone does that, but a lot of people use something unusual.

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OMGIN1
OMGIN1
Join Date 12/2011
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Reply #46 January 21, 2012 12:39:06 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

but a lot of people use something unusual

Well, I use something unusual. But NR and BoS sort of unusual is one thing, while Armor of Vengeance sort of unusual is a wholly different matter (: There are some items that do have a place in very specific circumstances. For example, sometimes I use Theurgist's Cap vs other Sednas, or Doomspite Grips as a late game replacement for NR. I wouldn't define these items core, of course.

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GM-McShane87
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Reply #47 January 21, 2012 1:33:35 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Quoting nnnils,
reply 44
well since there are not many good players leftt I justput that out tere hehe.. anyway feel free to play it out vs me and yellow

LoL I can't play anymore, I tried a game last month vs zen and jona, and well I won of course but I couldn't differentiate between lag and the game just being sooooo slooooooowwwww.  Also I kept cancelling my skills because I was trying too play too fast and the animations weren't finishing before I started moving again, something I had never experienced before.  

That would be too easy a few months ago though, you just "ass-fuck" rook with ring of divine might and spirits/pen which is especially easy considering he has no monks.  Then as long as TB doesn't get incredibly outplayed, you've got a 25 minute surrender.

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OMGIN1
OMGIN1
Join Date 12/2011
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Reply #48 January 21, 2012 1:50:06 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

That would be too easy a few months ago though, you just "ass-fuck" rook with ring of divine might and spirits/pen which is especially easy considering he has no monks.  Then as long as TB doesn't get incredibly outplayed, you've got a 25 minute surrender.

Oh, I thought you've been talking about Sed/TB. But I can try next time it with RoDM, Yetis and Pounce 

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nnnils
Join Date 01/2010
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Reply #49 January 21, 2012 2:10:15 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Quoting GM-McShane87,
reply 47
That would be too easy a few months ago though, you just "ass-fuck" rook with ring of divine might and spirits/pen which is especially easy considering he has no monks. Then as long as TB doesn't get incredibly outplayed, you've got a 25 minute surrender.
I dont think that works.. if da is good with tps

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OMGIN1
Darkliath
Join Date 04/2010
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Reply #50 January 21, 2012 2:27:45 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Quoting nnnils,
reply 49
I dont think that works.. if da is good with tps

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