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Advent Titans

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kafisher
wbino
Join Date 02/2008
+21
Reply #26 April 2, 2012 1:05:37 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

I don't play Advent, but I hate any ability that only benefits me when I lose a ship.

It's the main reason I hate the new TEC capital, half the techs are related to the destruction of my frigates.

Did they run out of ideas?

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kafisher
RiddleKing
Join Date 04/2006
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Reply #27 April 2, 2012 1:21:40 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Teun-A-Roonius,
reply 24
Nope RiddleKing.

 

Test repulsion against titans. Its 7500km in repulse range which negates ability usages under that distance.

 

that way--> Eradica with halcyons , guardians and illums works best: 

In addition: The corvettes offer advents answer to titans. 1 ability i herd of was disable targeting-How does this work and is there any others?

 

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kafisher
Mr. Haze
Join Date 05/2009
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Reply #28 April 2, 2012 1:41:26 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting RiddleKing,
reply 27

In addition: The corvettes offer advents answer to titans. 1 ability i herd of was disable targeting-How does this work and is there any others?

 

That tooltip is confusing, it's the Advent Loyalist Corvettes. What it actually does reduce chance to hit, I did a short 2v2 with a buddy of mine where I was Rebel and he was Loyalist, I moused over an enemy Titan his Corvettes were swarming and saw something like -53% chance to hit on it from mass procs on that effect.

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kafisher
sareth01
Join Date 08/2008
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Reply #29 April 2, 2012 2:13:57 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Mr. Haze,
reply 25
Well that's just bizarre. Detonate AM doesn't work and yet EMP does?

Edit - Though I guess it's because Detonate AM also disables abilities.

EMP Charge is going to be a massive problem for Advent Titans.

Well EMP also disables ability use as well, for a short time.

I would say as it is the developers need to do more with the capital ship abilities affecting titans then they are currently.  This "pick and choose which ones work" is pretty lame, as it negates capital ability use in the game, and makes titan combat far less interesting.

A titan having High health, shields and armor and dps is enough to give them the awe inspiring strength that the developers want them to have.  Look at the orkulus starbase when it is fully upgraded, it is only good because it has the most health, most armor, and most damage of the 3, and it moves...

It can still be affected by many abilities, aside from interrupts, and it still does fine.  WHY? because it needs fleet support.   Titans should take some fleet support as well, or else there is no substantive skill in their use and they will quickly become boring and dull.  Fleet support is fun, spamming one type of unit for victory (even one titan) is not so fun.

Test repulsion against titans. Its 7500km in repulse range which negates ability usages under that distance.

 

that way--> Eradica with halcyons , guardians and illums works best: 

In addition: The corvettes offer advents answer to titans. 1 ability i herd of was disable targeting-How does this work and is there any others?

Hmm well its easy enough for your opponent to focus fire down your guardians with their bombers.  Guardians would have to leave the protection a halcyon provides them to encircle an opposing force.  A  competent opponent will blast them apart as soon as they leave their defensive location, knowing that guardians will really screw them with repulse.  also, the opponent can call off the attack on the titan itself and focus fire down the other ships in the fleet so that they can time when your titan dies to activate the ability.

The loyalist corvettes have a stacking debuff that reduces hit %.  I don't know to what magnitude this changes the fight against a titan, the hit % akkan buff in diplomacy didn't seem to do jack didley, so here is hoping it works like you suggest it does.

 

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kafisher
Seleuceia
Join Date 01/2008
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Reply #30 April 2, 2012 2:30:21 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting sareth01,
reply 29
Well EMP also disables ability use as well, for a short time.

EMP does not do this...it removes AM and does shield damage but it does not directly disable abilities...

Disruptive Strikes performs interrupts, increases ability cooldown temporarily, and saps AM, but doesn't directly disable abilities...

Lethargy increases ability cooldown...

So no cap ability that affects titans actually applies the disable abilities boolean to them...people keep complaining that we need more abilities to interfere with Titans but I'm not buying it...if I build a titan, I damn well want to be able to use it's abilities....if you are looking for counters to Titans, the answer is corvettes...a swarm of these can (or should) apply a small debuff that stacks and weakens the Titan...I'm not claiming corvette abilities are good where they stand, but those abilities should be the ones tweaked to deal with titans, not abilities like ion bolt or detonate antimatter...

Quoting RiddleKing,
reply 27
Test repulsion against titans. Its 7500km in repulse range which negates ability usages under that distance.

This and designate target are going to be really popular to use against Titans...

 

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kafisher
HouseRalan
Join Date 03/2008
+61
Reply #31 April 2, 2012 2:34:42 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

well, they did roll back the Advent for a reason.  Everyone seems displeased with them.

 

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kafisher
sareth01
Join Date 08/2008
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Reply #32 April 2, 2012 3:13:26 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

@ SemazRalan

early april fools joke, imo.  They knew april fools would occur over the weekend, and didn't want to miss out on the fun. 

There is a lot to like about the advent in the new release, we are talking about 1 ability here that doesn't shine like it should, and the potential to have more capital ship abilities work on titans.

also, i've had my missile barrage interrupted by only a dunov, after i've activated the ability...so Seleucia i don't know where you are getting the idea that Abilities aren't interrupted by this.  Its kinda hard to forget really, knowing that I almost lost my ship because the dunov interrupts casting...YES i was at full antimatter and yes the ability was used before I was hit.

The second I was hit his fleet stopped dying, my cast stopped working.  Perhaps this is a bug?

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kafisher
GoaFan77
Join Date 10/2008
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Reply #33 April 2, 2012 3:29:46 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting sareth01,
reply 32
also, i've had my missile barrage interrupted by only a dunov, after i've activated the ability...so Seleucia i don't know where you are getting the idea that Abilities aren't interrupted by this. Its kinda hard to forget really, knowing that I almost lost my ship because the dunov interrupts casting...YES i was at full antimatter and yes the ability was used before I was hit.

He said abilities aren't disabled by EMP. Disabling and interrupting abilities are very different things. Disabling abilities prevents them from being used for a period of time. Interrupt stops and ability already in progress.

That said, EMP doesn't interrupt either. Your Marza probably got hit by magnetize, which both disables and interrupts abilities.

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kafisher
Mr. Haze
Join Date 05/2009
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Reply #34 April 2, 2012 3:36:43 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

EMP may interrupt abilities, but it definitely doesn't disable abilities like Detonate AM does.

Edit - Nevermind, Goa got it.

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kafisher
bilun
Join Date 02/2012
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Reply #35 April 2, 2012 3:55:38 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

are abilities like Detonate Antimatter completely unable to target titans? Or can they still be used for the antimatter drain but just not apply the ability disable component?

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kafisher
RiddleKing
Join Date 04/2006
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Reply #36 April 2, 2012 4:14:13 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

detonate am could target anything with an am pool. not allowing it to target titans is freaking wrong

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kafisher
Rovert10
Join Date 06/2011
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Reply #37 April 2, 2012 4:20:46 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting RiddleKing,
reply 36
detonate am could target anything with an am pool. not allowing it to target titans is freaking wrong

Yes it seems like the only way to combat a titan is to bring your own titan and have capitals that can do something to either it's abilities or anti-matter pool.

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kafisher
Seleuceia
Join Date 01/2008
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Reply #38 April 2, 2012 6:42:12 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting sareth01,
reply 32
Seleucia i don't know where you are getting the idea that Abilities aren't interrupted by this.

If you are ever in doubt, just look at the game files...disabling abilities is a boolean modifier, and you will note that excluding the new rebellion caps, each faction has only two cap abilities that do this...for TEC, those abilities are ion bolt and magnetize...

Certain frigate abilities (such as the cobalts) also do this, but they can only target other frigates and must face their target...

Quoting bilun,
reply 35
are abilities like Detonate Antimatter completely unable to target titans? Or can they still be used for the antimatter drain but just not apply the ability disable component?

Quoting RiddleKing,
reply 36
etonate am could target anything with an am pool. not allowing it to target titans is freaking wrong

Abilities are set to target certain "objects" (frigates, caps, structures, etc.)...you must add an object to the list of targets...you can add "constraints" (has shields, has hull damage, has AM, etc.) that then remove certain potential targets...

Detonate AM does not have Titans as one of the objects viable for targeting...that the target requires AM as well is merely a constraint...you cannot directly make an ability that targets everything with AM (to mimic that effect, it'd have to target all objects in the game and then have a constraint requiring AM)...

There are some misleading abilities...as RiddleKing and Goa pointed out earlier, Vertigo can technically target SC, but the actual debuff will only affect frigates...Psionic Scream is also misleading, as it targets Titans (and does damage to them), but the ability disablement is technically a separate buff and does not affect Titans...

 

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kafisher
RiddleKing
Join Date 04/2006
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Reply #39 April 2, 2012 10:57:48 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

From: https://www.sinsofasolarempire.wikia.com/wiki/Vespa_Corvette

 

The Vespa Corvette is for the Rebel Advent.

 

Quote: 

A small, quick hybrid ship capable of damaging enemy shield generators, repair systems and backup generators.


Shield regen, Hull Regen and Shield Mitigation ?

 

and it target titans?

Quote:

Strong vs. frigates, cruisers, capital ships, strike craft, and titans.


Other:

Cost: 100Credits 10Metal 5Crystal
Build Time: 14 seconds.
Uses: 2 supply.
 
Hull: 200
Armor: 0
Shields: 230
 
Average Beam Damage: 3
Average Laser Damage: 2
Average Point Defense Damage: 4


I think they are the ace card  because chastic burst from the eradica also targets all enemy corvettes within 6000km.

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kafisher
Mr. Haze
Join Date 05/2009
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Reply #40 April 2, 2012 11:06:03 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

... That's not what the Vespas did at all.

They increased cooldown on energy weapons and decreased antimatter regeneration rates.

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kafisher
GoaFan77
Join Date 10/2008
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Reply #41 April 2, 2012 11:10:24 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting bilun,
reply 35
are abilities like Detonate Antimatter completely unable to target titans? Or can they still be used for the antimatter drain but just not apply the ability disable component?

Its completely useless. It won't let you use it on the titan. It seems only abilities that deplete antimatter or increase ability cooldown yet don't disable abilities outright will work against them, which is probably a good design decision as it seems the Advent titans rely on abilities far more than the TEC titans did.

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kafisher
sareth01
Join Date 08/2008
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Reply #42 April 2, 2012 11:10:59 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Hmm i stand corrected on EMP...i was hit by magnetize...lol.  I remember now being surprised ages ago by the magnetize interrupt...Dunovs are champs .

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kafisher
GoaFan77
Join Date 10/2008
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Reply #43 April 2, 2012 11:13:06 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting sareth01,
reply 42
Hmm i stand corrected on EMP...i was hit by magnetize...lol. I remember now being surprised ages ago by the magnetize interrupt...Dunovs are champs .

Indeed, I used to make fun of Ue_Carbon for using them. All it needed were true super units to shine, with the ability to both heal your titan a lot and weaken your opponents, I think we'll be seeing a lot more of them.

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kafisher
Seleuceia
Join Date 01/2008
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Reply #44 April 2, 2012 11:28:24 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

RiddleKing:

Looking at the game files, here are the current ability effects of the Advent Corvettes...

  • Target Shield Generators: -10% to shield regen rate (no stacking limit)
  • Target Damage Control: -10% to hull regen rate (stacking limit of 5)
  • Target Backup Generators: -10% to shield mitigation (stacking limit of 1)

All three of these abilities have a 5% of enacting upon weapon fired...two of them have a duration of 45s, however Target Shield Generators I think may be bugged and won't "stick", as the finish conditions for it are screwy...

As of v.62, there is no difference between the Loyalist and the Rebel Advent corvettes as far as abilities are concerned....obviously though the devs do have a separate set of abilities...keep in mind that these abilities could change in ever so many different ways by the time of the next update...

Just looking at these abilities, the Target Backup Generators seems to be the most powerful...even with a 5% to hit, a 45s duration is pretty long and you likely will have enough corvettes to keep any single target under that debuff indefinitely...

Mr. Haze:

There are files for two abilities that fit your description:

  • Target Antimatter Tanks: removes 5% of AM (no stacking limit, not that it matters since it's an instant action)
  • Target Weapons: weapon cooldown increased by 10% (stacking limit of 4)

The 1st ability has a 2% chance to stick, and the 2nd ability has a 5% chance and a duration of 45s...

 

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kafisher
RiddleKing
Join Date 04/2006
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Reply #45 April 2, 2012 11:30:45 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Mr. Haze,
reply 40
... That's not what the Vespas did at all.

They increased cooldown on energy weapons and decreased antimatter regeneration rates.

 

good enough for ability negation?

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kafisher
Seleuceia
Join Date 01/2008
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Reply #46 April 2, 2012 11:36:45 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Well, its 5% (probably of max AM, not current, but I don't know for sure) that is sapped, with a 2% chance to hit...I think it's really going to depend on the level of the Titan, it's upgrades, whether it's TEC and in friendly culture, etc....

Too many variables to say whether it's going to be useful or not without actual testing...just looking at the numbers though, I would guess that it won't prevent the ability from spamming initially, but by the end of the battle the Titan will have a hard time regenerating AM faster than it uses it....

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kafisher
RiddleKing
Join Date 04/2006
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Reply #47 April 3, 2012 12:22:56 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Do guardians get any change? I hated having to research 4 techs to get repulsion

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kafisher
GoaFan77
Join Date 10/2008
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Reply #48 April 3, 2012 12:38:40 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting RiddleKing,
reply 47
Do guardians get any change? I hated having to research 4 techs to get repulsion

No, if anything they might have less shield points now (whats the shield points for guardians in Diplomacy with the shield techs you need to research again)?

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kafisher
bilun
Join Date 02/2012
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Reply #49 April 3, 2012 1:07:52 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting GoaFan77,
reply 48

Quoting RiddleKing, reply 47Do guardians get any change? I hated having to research 4 techs to get repulsion

No, if anything they might have less shield points now (whats the shield points for guardians in Diplomacy with the shield techs you need to research again)?

 

about 1700 I think?

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kafisher
Seleuceia
Join Date 01/2008
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Reply #50 April 3, 2012 1:41:37 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

The base is 1500 for both diplomacy and rebellion...with the shield techs (4 of them at 5% bonus each), that puts it at 1800...

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