Maxtipherous Maxtipherous

Lightning Alpha Strike formula

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Lightning Alpha Strike formula

from Stardock Forums
This is, I think, a radical approach to an alpha strike. When Ginata played 5 gigantic Maso games in 3 days I was shocked, and began thinking of ways to play a lightning game. This is the result. Today I played a 60,000 point gigantic masochistic in a little over 2 hours, no CTL-U, coupla CTL-N's to start with some isolation. Earth was PQ 17, also 1 PQ 20 and 4 PQ 15 -- 6 total!!! I did restart to race a minor for two PQ 15's, and I got the 35 Base random event on my 20 PQ, which makes less difference in this style than in others.

I know formulaic games aren't fun for most players -- I personally find them a fascinating way to explore the subtlties of the game mechanics.

Notes:

1) Starbases only for range and Terror Stars. No production, trade, cultural enhancements. No Resources!
2) Exploits are limited to Alpha-Strike, bribing for war or peace.
3) Trade only for technology on the list -- skip any pre-requisites if possible
4) Don't bother with wonders except Eyes of the Universe if you like. Build Trade Goods only if your planets dry up, but switch to Antimatter Generator when it becomes available.
5) Trade for morale enhancers, Gravity Accelerators
6) No Pondering! Everything is planned and executed precisely.

Build Order (* is optional placement, # was skipped this game accidently,& is optional)

Soil Enhancement
Banking Center
Entertainment Center
Habitat Improvement
Manufacturing Center
Fusion Generator
*Multimedia center
Antimatter Generator
Stadium
#Transporters
Harmony Generator
Stock Market
Economic Exchange
&News Network
&Medical Center
&Embassy
&Research Lab

Research Order (modify for alternate build order,& is optional)
(modify to keep your social build-queue filled)
(I traded cash for nearly a quarter of these last game)

Communication Theory
Universal Translator
Diplomacy
Trade
Medical Theory
Basic Environmental Control
Industrial Theory
Propulsion Theory
Cold Fusion
Interstellar refining
~~~~~~~~
Nano Electronics
Nano-Frequency Electronics
&Stellar Cartography
Sensors
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Impulse Drive
Antimatter
Zero-Gee Manufacturing
~~~~~~~~~
Advanced Diplomacy
Interstellar Negotiation
Extraveganza
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Interstellar Business
Interstellar Marketing
Interstellar Capitolism
~~~~~~~~~
Zero Gee Research
Genetic Mapping
Molecular Medicine
Transporters
~~~~~~~~~~
Weapons Theory
Phasers
Instantaneous Communication
1D Phasing
Large Scale Building
Artificial Satellites
Artificial Planets
Terror Star

~~~~~~~~~~
Stage 1

Military 100%, Expenditures 100%, Tax to morale about 80%.
As soon as 4-8 colony ships are build, equalize spending sliders. Adjust Expenditure Slider to stay in the black when necessary. Don't rush-build additional colony ships if needed, just go to 100% Military for a few turns.

Expand to a small number of nearby planets, keeping any majors far enough away to prevent early culture flipping. Stop expanding early!!
Build constructors to extend range.
Once Trade is researched choose a trading planet and build no more than 10 freighters. 6 may be more the mark. Send them to the closest planet.
Once Sensors are developed, build and deploy Sensor Drones.

I like to expand and explore in a grid, so I sent constructors out to fill this grid and I send sensor drones to explore in stripes from one side of the map to another -- no muss, no fuss. It may be faster to build only enough to explore clusters of stars, but I think that requires too much (many?) hands-on for this approach
The goal is actually to explore the existing planets and place starbases so that every remotely inhabitable planet is within range (4 or 5) of a terror star, so whatever floats.

Keep the AI's at war with each other and out of war with minors as much as possible through bribes. The build pattern above should allow ample cash for 100 turn trades of 15 -25 BC on a regular basis.

Stage 2

Set a Rally Point as near to the center of all opposing planets as possible. On most maps this will be around 13,13. Switch sensor drones to constructors when you have build enough to either pattern search or cluster search. Switch freighters to constructors when you have built 6-10. Set all planets to Rally Point 0.

Once stadiums are built, try to keep morale at 100%. You should be able to manage 100% morale, 100% expenditures, and peak at around 1000BC/mo with only 5 or 6 traders.

When the Terror Star is researched, turn research to 0% (you can research morale items like virus, depression if you like). When the social queue is complete set social spending to 0%.

As the constructors reach Rally Point 0, group them in stacks of 5 and send them to park near the *farthest* planets first. Park a stack next to each Major planet. I like to send several to minors as well, in the event the planets are taken over by majors.

Try to judge when you have built enough constructors and turn Expenditures to 0%.

Keep the AI's at war; above all keep them from allying with each other. Keep them at peace with the minors if possible so you need fewer Terror Stars.

Stage 3

Terror Star Alpha Strike at your convenience

Hope y'all find this interesting!
9,792 views 114 replies
Reply #76 from Stardock Forums Top
Well, I did say that terror stars in an adjacent sector should be viewed as a threat...but it would still be better to force incremental completion rather than "Presto! Chango! There Goes the Neighborhood!"

BTW, my last two attempts at gigantic maso I've gotten so deep in debt that I'm not sure the position is recoverable. Say rather: "so deep in debt when all I have is Soil" meaning that my economy is weak too. Thinking back, I did something dumb. You see, there were these juicy systems out of range of colony ships, and I didn't want the AI to beat me to them, so I rushed a constructor (275bc+20bc forever, or some such). So I used up 27.5% of my starting capital, and saddled myself with a nice fat lease, all while I was still in the initial 100% military push. Then of course it takes half of forever for the constructor to reach my border. Memo: don't DO that!!! ;p

Say Maxti, crossing threads again, in one of those poverty-stricken games the nearest potential trade partner is the Scottlingas, four sectors away in a straight line. You wrote something like "send all the freighters to the nearest system." In this case, might it be worth boosting those trade routes with some trade SB? The cash gain might offset using constructors for non-TS purposes. OTOH the 4-sector length might make trade SB less valuable, particularly in the Lightning Alpha Strike context. Yes/no? -- HtL
[Message Edited]
Reply #77 from Stardock Forums Top
At the moment, you build a terror star on one turn, and it's not until next turn that it can fire, so the AI has time to declare war on you and destroy the base if he wants to - it's not like I ever defend them. I interpret his failure to take action as a fatalistic acceptance of the inevitability of death.
It could be fixed, but unless they also make the AI better at culture war and military strategy, it won't add much to the difficulty of the endgame - it'll just make it take longer.

~SDC~
Curtains - Customize Windows with additional styles
Reply #78 from Stardock Forums Top
" boosting those trade routes with some trade SB?"
sure, why not. Your constructor production will eventually be so high that spending a few on trade won't make any difference. I've done it that way and the extra income is certainly welcome.

Matthew Downie
-- have you noticed that the AI rarely attacks on the first turn he declares war anyway? I think it would be 2 or 3 turns before he attacks anyway. A couple of times when I made a mistake I actually parked (set on guard) TS's for a few turns while I brought in my last stack and none of the AI's seemed to mind. that was 1.12, though.
Reply #79 from Stardock Forums Top
I like the idea of making a 1 module per turn limit for any starbase. That would help the AI defend against terror stars and culture bombs. Of course, he would also have to be competent at controlling warships in the area, but at least this would give him a chance. If you combine this with having to actually pay for terror stars, the alpha strike setup would take longer and might not work every time.

I still say your morality should be affected by use of terror stars!
Reply #80 from Stardock Forums Top
I like the idea of making a 1 module per turn limit for any starbase.
End of quote


That makes perfect sense to me...then it would make sense to say "Construction of our first starbase is coming along..." Also simpler to code. Constructing a starbase s/b a time-consuming process.

If you combine this with having to actually pay for terror stars, the alpha strike setup would take longer and might not work every time.
End of quote


Agreed.

I still say your morality should be affected by use of terror stars!
End of quote


Well, after a Lightning Alpha Strike, who cares? Like the tech text says, "They're all dead now." But I basically agree with you. Now someone could make the argument that a "good" civ might be "purging a nest of evil." But are they *all* evil? "Kill them all, let God sort them out."
Reply #81 from Stardock Forums Top
I tried this strategy this week and it worked pretty good. The only problem I have is that when I go to destroy all the planets, I always miss some new planet that has been colonized. When you send out your sensor drones, do you park them in some kind of radius or just send them out to explore the map. I sent mine out to explore, but I am thinkging you need to park them. If you do park them, do they pick all things in a couple block range?

Thanks for the advice.

~SDC~
Reply #82 from Stardock Forums Top
I set the sensor drones to sweep across the entire map, so you can see when the new stars are colonized by the color change even when the sensor drone is no longer around.

if there is a i constructor / turn limit to building, there needs to be a build queue or I would forget what I was building where *grin*
Reply #83 from Stardock Forums Top
Maxti,

I have been trying this approach for a while, but I've run into a snag. I can win every time, but it seems to take too long--hence score drops markedly. I stop colonizing early, set all to constructors, but they take too long. By the time I attack, I have most of the tech tree (granted most of it by trade with minors), a ridiculous economy (I almost didn't go in the whole on the last game), and no worries with the majors. What am I missing to speed things up? My games are in the 4-5 hour range.
Reply #84 from Stardock Forums Top
I set the sensor drones to sweep across the entire map
End of quote


Do you do this manually or is there a way to make them "patrol" across the map?
Reply #85 from Stardock Forums Top
well, your constructors will probably build a lot faster if you turn your research and social spending to zero. I find taking the time to dialogue with minors is a hit, as is spending a lot of time thinking about the next step. Kinda "GalCiv, Twitch Style."

If you haven't read this thread completely, I forgot to specify "rare" wich makes a huge difference.

I don't know about a score hit. On Maso it doesn't matter, somewhat surprisingly.

I do the sensor drones manually, first sending them down one side in a pattern based on sensor range, then sending them across the map.

Good Lock!
Reply #86 from Stardock Forums Top
Thanks for the help. I don't spend any more time than what you said at the beginning of this thread.

One more question: You said that 15-25bc for 100 months would be enough to keep the majors at war with themselves and at peace with minors. I end up in the 40-50bc for 100 range. And I have +70 Diplomacy. I don't get it. Any thoughts?
Reply #87 from Stardock Forums Top
Thanks for the info Max; your walkthrough worked great and the only problems I had was missing planets on the big arse map!
~SDC~
[Message Edited]
Reply #88 from Stardock Forums Top
Couldn't the "missing planets" be avoided by letting the minimap show population (It will actually shows population in undiscovered areas) or did i misunderstand the issue ?
Reply #89 from Stardock Forums Top
It does, but the ones I miss are always underneath the big circles; it's not until I start to destroy planets that I see them. Does that make sense?

~SDC~
Reply #90 from Stardock Forums Top
The way I have found to avoid the embarrassment of leaving the one star standing is to turn off population so that you just see the stars colored the AI's color. It's a little hard on the eyes to look at dots that small, but it works.
Reply #91 from Stardock Forums Top
I use a full sensor drone sweep to avoid missing stars.

as far as the cost to bribe, I was quoting from a starting bonus maxing out diplo bonuses. Without maxing I found 30-50 was more the mark
Reply #92 from Stardock Forums Top
This may be silly, because I play on small maps, but on gigantic, when you access another AI screen (eg to trade), dont you get a list of all their planets? Or do you only see the list of planets YOU know about? On small, you can easily count their planet list and make sure you have them all...
Reply #93 from Stardock Forums Top
dont you get a list of all their planets
End of quote


You do get a list of all the AI planets. But on a gigantic map, even with a rare setting, an AI might end up with 10-15 systems easily. Depending on terrain, some systems are not colonized until very late in the game. And then there are those pesky pq14 the AI sometimes grabs in the middle of the game.

~SDC~
Reply #94 from Stardock Forums Top
Yep. Right before the alpha strike, I go though the diplo screen and count the number of planets for the species in question. Then I make sure I have that many terror stars on my ship list. If so, I have accounted for all the planets. If not, I have to search the map to see which little punk planet I missed. You REALLY don't want to miss any if you are mortgaging your entire future on the one strike.
Reply #95 from Stardock Forums Top
if there is a i constructor / turn limit to building, there needs to be a build queue or I would forget what I was building where *grin*
End of quote


Absolutely agreed!!! In the absence of that new feature, forget 1/turn! (Well, except for TS, but that would require nuisance coding.)
Reply #96 from Stardock Forums Top
CAN THIS AFFAIR BE SAVED?????

Dateline Sol, September, 2192

The Lombard League has been quietly making progress toward its innocent goal of blowing up the galaxy, but now the very existence of humans is threatened. The Ambassador to Arcea was caught tup--I mean, "insulted" the wrong mistress, and now Arcea has declared war on the defenseless Lombards. Memo: do not leave envoys on station for ten years without suitable companionship; after ten years even Arceans start to look good.

The entire navy of the Lombard League consists of one starfighter and three survey ships. The highest military tech we possess is phasers, while the Arceans have Avatars. My first thought was to trade for Dreadnought tech and pump out AMMs, but I don't think that will save the collective Lombard neck.

Arcea is #3 on the military graph, and I have #1 and #2 at war with Arcea. Before the scandal broke the Lombards had friendly relations with all five majors.

I see three possible courses of action:

1. Pump out AMMs and try to stave off the inevitable.

2. Let the Arceans do some damage to satisfy their honor, then sue for peace, likely offering star systems.

3. Invoke the time-honored science fiction technique of travelling back in time to seek an alternate branch. [And no, I'm not part of Realms Beyond.]

Your advice, O Noble Sages?

-- HtL
Reply #97 from Stardock Forums Top
1, if you can trade for Dreadnaught tech (tends to be outrageously expensive). AMMs tend to be a better strategy than Avatars - they're much cheaper anyway. Otherwise, 2. A bribe of some money over a hundred turns can be a good alternative to a planet.
If that fails, resort to 3.

I'm currently in a bit of a hopeless game myself. Medium galaxy, and I only got one star, and various powerful people are demanding my planets and have combat transports floating around the earth. It makes a change, I suppose...

~SDC~
Reply #98 from Stardock Forums Top
I'm currently in a bit of a hopeless game myself. Medium galaxy, and I only got one star, and various powerful people are demanding my planets and have combat transports floating around the earth. It makes a change, I suppose...
End of quote


Sometimes you are the windshield,
sometimes you are the bug.

I doubt I can bribe my way out of war at maso. I thought *maybe* if they do some damage first. I suppose I could try to sneak a stack of constructors over and blow up the nearest Arcean planet, but that trick never works!
Reply #99 from Stardock Forums Top
You can usually bribe your way out of war if you deal some damage. I suggest pumping AMMs, trying to blow one of their planets, and then sue to give it back (and probably some of yours too). Beware afterwards they'll be cool, so you'll have to make sure the relations with them becomes better.

If they are far away, you can also try to wait it out. I find that ignoring even the #1 who is at war with you is okay if they can't reach you.
Reply #100 from Stardock Forums Top
Thanks, LDC! I gather you mean capture the planet; I had in mind blowing the system. I doubt they'd want it back then. "Slightly used." ;) In this game they're right next door. I'm nearly dead center on the map, and they have the whole western third of the map. One problem with grabbing the nearest planet...likely their whole navy will come through that sector, on the shortest route to my nearest planets.

Meanwhile, see my post #329 in the 1.13 Bugs thread. When I tried to load my latest position this morning, the game came up empty. Main map all red, no systems, no ships, no aliens under F5, no planets under F2, just "Test Text" here and there. [I know, I know, some people will do *anything* to avoid a loss!]