trade starbases are a farce

from Stardock Forums
ok heres the situation.

i have 10 freighters all doing a 756 turn route.

this is decent income.

now i thought about adding trade oriented starbases along the route. i opted to put put a whole bunch of them at the very end of the route so that they would have the greatest effect when the route was worth the most.

the only problem i see is that a base costs 13bc/turn but only adds benefits for 10turns when freighter is in sector going to the alien planet(and when trade route is worth the most) and another 10 turns going back to the origin planet.

here are the numbers as i see them

13bc/turn for 756 turn = 9828bc for a whole trade route cycle

for 10 turns the base reaps a return where the value of the trade route goes up by 114bc/turn x 10 turns = 1140

for another 10 turns the freighters on its way home and im not sure how much income i get from that portion of the trip but even if it was the same as the other 10 turns im still seeing a 7000bc/ route loss

are my numbers correct?
4,912 views 17 replies
Reply #1 from Stardock Forums Top
Honestly, I no longer build trade starbases. I tend to add a trade module to starbases doing other things, but I never build a SB primarily for trade.
Reply #2 from Stardock Forums Top
still not that great. but come on even in your situation your probably gonna come out even monetarily. thats gotta be wrong. you get a couple of bc for a couple of turns but you spend tons of turns wasting money on maintenance.
Siege of Centauri
Reply #3 from Stardock Forums Top
well, I used to trade across the entire map and load up on trade starbases on my end. This is a bad idea because income fluctuations make me crazy. I started trading with a minor 1 or 2 squares away in a straight line. I have even gifted planets for this purpose. Line the route with two or three trade starbases in each sector for steady, predictable income with little hassle.
Reply #4 from Stardock Forums Top
David,

I'm not sure if understand the aboe calculations correctly, but...

Trade income for each route varies depending on which turn of the 756 the freighter has reached (this can be seen by checking the trade tab on the domestic screen).

As i understand how this works the income rises towards the end (should be highest on the 756th turn). This would be when it reaches its starting point again.

Therefore if you place those trade SB's just before it reaches the system it started out from you would benefit greatly from it (of course only on the turns in which the freighters passes thru this sector).

This is easier to manage if you use the strategy Max described.
[Message Edited]
Reply #5 from Stardock Forums Top
well max as far as your strategy goes i would rather do what i did. i was trading from a really good planet that was in the lowest right corner of the map all the way to the upper left corner of the map on a 24x24. it was a 756 turn route wich was bringing in quite a lot of money.

your idea was good about stabilizing the money from trade by having a small route with bases along the entire lenght but it doesnt take care of the fact that the bases dont pay for themselves as far as i can tell.

a base costs 13bc per month and when the freighter is in the same sector you make some of the money back but overall you lose money.

my calculations above are just an exagerated version of those numbers because of the values involved in that humongous route....and i dont think anyone would argue that a long route isnt best when it comes to trade.
Reply #6 from Stardock Forums Top
You may want to look at Theoden's argument again.

Adding trade modules to existing SBs is probably the way to go.
This ensures that you get extra income when trade vessels pass through, but at the same time keeps upkeep down.

Your argument does not consider the downstream, as income increases from the age of the route, which alters the calculations.

As a side note, it is very likely that your game will end before your ships ever make a second pass through the sector with the trade SBs because of the length. Maxtipherous' setup ensures that the freighter will pass through the SBs area multiple times before the game ends, thus increasing the benefit of the SBs significantly.

I hope that helps a bit.
[Message Edited]
Reply #7 from Stardock Forums Top
david,
when the planets are near each other there are tiny freighters in the sectors containing starbases all the time, so there really isn't any time when the starbases are not paying for themselves. you can click on the tiny trader and see how much it is making each month, and judge from that the benefits of the starbases.

The advantages of this system (which I didn't invent) are:
1) the trade income starts sooner and increases more or less predictably.
2) the minor is easily defended and not likely to be taken over by your worst enemy, thereby crashing your economy.
3) trade income can be increased indefinitely if that becomes a priority.
4) you don't need a backup stack of freighters parked at an alternate trade partnet (less management)

I will do a test, set up a short trade route and get it running with 2 or 3 starbases ber sector, record the figures, kill the starbases and play a few turns, record the figures, and report back
Reply #8 from Stardock Forums Top
start with 8 trade routes to a minor 2 sectors away.
says estimate is 7BC per month
(stats say trade bonus is 50%, economics 176%)
trade route screen reports all routes worth 29BC
Each little trader says 29BC
Total trade revenue reported as 544BC
Saved Game

killed all trade routes
Total trade revenue reported as 312bc
(I assume 312 is trade from other races to me)
312+(8*29)=544

Loaded Game
Build 3 trade center starbases in each of three sectors.
Maintenance 90BC
Trade route screen and little traders show value as 70bc
total trade revenue reported as 872bc
312+(8*70)=872

so 90bc maintenance gives 328 increase in revenue
for 238 profit, or 264% ROI

I have easily achieved 3000bc using this method, wich is more or less my max sending traders across the map, with much less effort.

One added benefit -- much better if you are playing an ostrich strategy. AI's don't hate you until they meet you.

Cheers!
Reply #9 from Stardock Forums Top
so economy bonuses stack somehow with trade bonuses because you went to your stat page and quoted your economy bonus as 176%
Reply #10 from Stardock Forums Top
what does that mean when you say the estimate is 7bc per month and why is that different from the trade screen saying each route is worth 29bc
Reply #11 from Stardock Forums Top
OOOHHHHH....no wonder my numbers were showing a loss. i was doing it with only one freighters income.

the base costs 10000 for the full trade route cycle

each freighter gains 2000 income while in its zone of influence both going and coming.

but i have 10 freighters doing that so each base causes 20000 in trade income and 10000 net profit over the trade cycle(756 turns)
Reply #12 from Stardock Forums Top
i don't know if economy bonuses stack, or if it does, exactly how it does. When you start a trade route it gives you an estimate, which is usually dramatically lower than what you actually get.

And I knew you weren't counting all the little traders passing each starbase twice, but I wanted to run the numbers anyway hehe
Reply #13 from Stardock Forums Top
I did an experiment once, and I think the benefit of a trade starbase is independent of the size of the route (provided it's a horizontal or vertical route). For a longer route, you get the bonus for fewer turns, but because the trade route itself is worth more, you get the same amount. The only benefit of a smaller route is that your income is more consistent, as stated above.

You would have to do a detailed calculation to confirm my brief test. You'd need to consider the economy of the two systems trading, and the length of the route.

In practice, by the time I'm building lots of trade starbases, I've already got a dominating position and am going to win anyway.
Reply #14 from Stardock Forums Top
Hmm...I wonder if the increase in SB maintenance undermined the idea of putting speed bonuses in sectors that have no trade bonuses. I imagine the "slingshots" don't pay off anymore, but I'm too lazy to test.
Reply #15 from Stardock Forums Top
calculations wouldn't really be necessary. Take a save game you are winning and build several stacks of freightes and constructors, and park them at strategic points. Save.

Run the various scenarios against each other, checking the tiny freighters when they are both in and out of sectors with starbases. Wouldn't take too long.
Reply #16 from Stardock Forums Top
Run the various scenarios against each other, checking the tiny freighters when they are both in and out of sectors with starbases. Wouldn't take too long.
End of quote


Repeat: "I'm too lazy to test." Also, remember my alternate name... -- Admiral Glacier ;)
Reply #17 from Stardock Forums Top
David,

have a look in the "Trade terror star - a vagabonding cash cow?" and give it a try.