Hmmm, I just thought of a way around this IF it turns out it is impossible to set individual phase lanes travel speeds. I can make all the trade lanes connect to stars which can be set to have different speeds then the standard phase lanes.

The only down side to this is that these trade lane star systems (that actually have stars) will have to have the trade planet in a separate gravity well (connected by a phase lane like the stock game).

Damn,another down side is that you can then travel directly from any trade star to any other trade star....okay, this won't work.

On the trade lane thingy.... How are you going to establish them? are they going to be already set by default? so what if rebels control half and imps the other half? or will we be able to set up our own trade lanes? just a thought

Question... I don't know if you guys had decided whether or not the Death Star was even possible, but if it was what would the balancing unit on the Rebel Alliance be? Would you get a single Luke Skywalker unit, with a special ability called "Destroy Death Star"? That plus the SSD, which is a juggernaught by itself.

Maybe if they got a special research upgrade like Bothan spies that would reveal the entire map or something. Or maybe the ability to build a limited amount of "elite" units like the Home One (which, I Imagine, should have a ton of antimatter points and a bunch of group effecting abilities) and such just so they can more easily match the power of the SSD. Possibly a Rogue Squadron unit or a Millennium Falcon unit.

These are just things that come to mind, I hope you guys don't mind suggestions.

don't even begin to talk of 'balance' or specific ship counters I'm not even going to consider them. The balance is a lot of cost and a lot of time.

Wait until the first release and then complain

I wasn't complaining at all I was just giving some input, sorry.

Lol thats right.... most of the games are balanced right now..... Rock papers siscors style..... in the Star wars universe the rebels were outgunned outmanned outmatched and still persevered! LONG LIVE THE REBELLION!

Okay, I have to second Evillejedi on saving the complaints on balance for AFTER the first version is released. Even then, it will likely be a 'cost rebalancing' rather than altering of ship/shield/weapon/AM values. I am under the impression that the mod will try to be true to official ship specs (or as close as possible).

Second, there won't be a death star in the mod (as far as I know). The game might be able to handle it, but since we can't permanently 'destroy' planets, what is the point? There are also balance issues that kind of suck. There is also the timeline issue since the mod fits best in a post-Endor setting.

As for the map, it will be 'sorta' fully connected. However, hyperspace jumps will have a maximum range. Destinations beyond that range will simply be out of reach. You will need to make more than 1 jump to reach them (and travel through those gravity wells to finally reach your destination). *This is easy to do.

ONE of the problems I am facing is making Trade Lanes more efficient in terms of travel speeds. However, I am now thinking I might make Trade Lanes more strategically important by giving them extended jump range over standard phase lanes. *This I can do easily.

I might also give Trade systems deeper jump zones to further speed up travel along these well established routes.

As for stars, I don't plan on using a single one for this map. All 'systems' will consist of a primary planet/asteroid with a 'fake' 3D star model off to the side (similar to the little pebbles in the stock game). In fact, all I am doing is changing the skin/size/collision mesh size of these pebbles.

Furthermore, the gravity wells will be FAR larger than stock. Additionally, some of these gravity wells will have asteroid fields that are so thick they impede capital ship manuevering. There will be additional system effects to match up with any special Star Wars systems.

Woah... if the gravity well is big enough u can practically make a HW2 Class battle in a planet.... Well i can think of a few problems and benefits with it...

Problems:

-If asteroids fields are impassable and they are placed around the planet..... the defending side will have an easy time by just bottlenecking the attackers.... Think of an "U" of asteroids.... only the top side can be attacked and thats where most defenses will be....

-If you make the gravity well huge there will be a thick chance that the rebels won't be able to do hit and run tactics.... considering the empire has defenses on the planet plus the extra defenders that are bound to come in before the rebels even have time to hit anything valuable.... (I may have not made myself clear there)

Benefits:

-You can make a huge carrier class battle in a system (That might be both good and bad) Where you have a Mon Calamari + couple of nebulons + corellian corvettes vs an ISD + Carracks.... as i said this could be both good and bad..... If you make capital ships very valuable This will likely end up in a stalemate, since the rebels will try to defend their 'Cal and the imperials their ISD... this will lead to bigger role of fighters (Endor style)Where the capital ships are out of range of each other and there is only fighter battles for fear of losing the Caps.

Sorry for the wall of text O.o

EmperorParadoxnt and others involved in map creation,

I found this thread and read approximately 95% of it and am very excited about what I saw with regard to this mod on swrebellion.com. Also as an introduction I'm not a modder and have no experience in development (programming, modeling or otherwise) but tend to think logically being an IT systems auditor. That being said I was thinking a bit about the galactic map and sub-maps being worked on and their overall organization.

I had noted when reading this thread that you were thinking of also breaking the galactic map down into sections to accomodate a campaign mode for this mod in addition to have some smaller maps to play. Reading this I thought it to be an excellent idea. I got to thinking of the method in which this might be done and figured that I would try expound upon it if you had not already thought it through.

First of all some basic geometry to set a benchmark for my thinking. The galaxy (a circle) is divided into quadrants (90 degree segments), sub-quadrants (10 degree segments), and sector zones (successively smaller rings with equal radii). Sub-quadrants and sector zones combine into a sector grid.

I figure the following would be a good break down with the quantity of star systems spread evenly through out:

Galaxy Map (Large Size) = 4 Quadrant Maps Together (Medium Size)
1 Quadrant Map = 3 Sector Grid Maps (Small Size)

Alternatively more star systems could be allocated to the sector grid maps successively closer to the galactic core for a combination of realism and game intensity.

Subsequently for a campaign you would need to conquer all 3 sector grid maps to have captured a quadrant. You would then proceed to the next quadrant and it's sector grids. This would also provide for the dynamic by which you could select which sector grid map, and quadrant you would like to start with or proceed to. There is also an alternative in line with the lore of the genre, and correct me if I am wrong, the Rebellion started in the "outer rim" sectors. Playing as the Rebellion you would have to capture/conquer all the sectors along the outer rim before you could proceed to the next inward ring of sectors till you finally conquered the galactic core sectors. The converse would be done for The Empire. For a third playable faction (crime syndicate or otherwise?) you might be able to pick and choose sectors randomly till finally conquering the galaxy.

You have probably already thought this through though but I figured I would put it out there just in case as a campaign mechanic/overall map organization methodology. This would be how I would focus my efforts in the creation of campaign maps for the Star Wars or any other mod for that matter including the stock game.

.knightl3y,

I agree with that provided you are playing in a sandbox mode in which your map size is large (full galaxy). In a campaign in most games you are typically limited to much smaller maps with finite acreage and objectives. In this case less star systems/planets. Also bear in mind that the arhitecture I laid out does not necessarily need to be fleshed out 100% and is more of a guideline. For example in a galaxy divided into a total of 12 sectors maybe only 10 of the sectors which are part of that total acreage have content. 2 sectors would get nothing since there isn't anything in Star Wars lore to put there. Consequently 2 quadrants would be fully populated with planets and content and the other 2 quadrants would have 2 sectors of content each. Thus conquering those 2 quadrants in a campaign mode would potentially be a way of doling out the easier content before ramping up to the hard content in the other 2 fully populated quadrants. Thus you keep 2/3 of the space within the less populated quadrants/sectors just as tightly packed with good Star Wars stuff as the other more populated quadrants.

Ultimately I was trying to think of an over arching way to organizing the landscape into a set of mutually exclusive maps that could optionally be played as a coherent whole galaxy. In other words design the galaxy once instead of 2, 3, 4 times based on the size and length of the game you want to play. After all we are talking about the Star Wars universe which is a known commodity so content and it's placement should be static. In addition using this design methodology you could in a sandbox/skirmish mode potentially start a play session by choosing to include a few key sectors for inclusion in your galaxy that have the places you really like in the Star Wars universe.

What I am getting at is more of what the thought process should probably be. It's all academic anyways since I'm not doing the real work. I was just hoping to give the map creator(s) a way to tackle what is when you look at it is a mountain of a task. Lay out places within Star Wars universe on a single map of a galaxy and maintain the immersion factor. That said I am not accounting for the technical issues which are involved with creating the play mechanics of traversing the galaxy in a Star Wars way using the jump lains and how to actually design a single star system within the constraints of the engine.

Am looking forward to play this Star Wars mod.

I don't really want or demand anything. These guys are devoting their free time, not getting paid, and still being hassled to make a good mod which takes a huge amount of effort. All I'm doing is throwing some ideas around because I love Star Wars and I thought that was the point of this thread. No one has said what is out of bounds or what is possible with this, so I was just trying to make a contribution in some way since I can't help to make the mod (I have no idea what programs are being used or how to use them, otherwise I would offer my help). I don't understand why people think I'm complaining. Even if the first release of the mod turns out to be glitchy and doesn't work properly I still wouldn't complain since people I don't even know are making something for us that we all want completely free of charge, plus if it doesn't work on the first try theres always room for improvement.

Please don't think I'm criticizing, because I'm not. I appreciate you guys doing this just as much as anyone else. After rereading my posts, I really don't see a complaint anywhere anyway.

I came across another problem when sketching a big gravity well..... Size of the map will have to be HUGE to avoid gravity wells touching each other... but thats probably been discussed before...

Anyways there is a problem that i came through.... Imagine the rebels want to take down a trade port or some such of the empire.... the player sets a strike team.... 2 Nebulons (4 Fighter squadrons?) and a couple of corellian corvettes, they come in from hyperspace and they are a loong way from their target which was set nearby the planet. Suppose the Imps have an E.W.S.(Early warning system and it warns u about fleets coming in ur sistems) and they mobilized an ISD to intercept the rebels...... Make it 2 minutes before the ISD arrives.... If the planet has an asteroid field means the strike team will have to loop arround it to actually get close to their target and by the time they get to it the ISD will be on sistem and the target will be safe..... Any ideas to prevent that?

Hi Nikermaster, the massive gravity wells won't be a problem, since we won't have tons of planets right next to each other, nor will there be stars taking up map space. Keep in mind that we might only have 150 gravity wells total in the map. The Sins engine can easily handle this (even with enlarged gravity wells).

As for the Rebel versus Imp scenario you bring up, asteroid fields MIGHT be able to be set so smaller ships can navigate them more effectively than capital ships. So that ISD would take longer to reach the planet than the rebel strike force. The ISD will also have difficulty chasing the rebel strike force through the asteroid field. Combine this with strike craft capable of attacking planets, and a single ISD (with its tie squads) might be out of luck against a small nimble rebel force (with advanced fighters/bombers). A SSD might be next to useless in such a asteroid filled gravity well....well, except for the horde of strikecraft they carry.

Anyway, you see the possibilities, I am sure.

Of course I do.... But remember the firepower of the SSD in Empire strikes back? ( sound like a star wars nerd) when the SSD blasts through the asteroids?.... just a thought.... Il keep coming with these scenarios to help gameplay im sure...

Another scenario..... The rebels plan an offensive on a planet and they got a Mon Calamari(5 Squads), 1 Nebulon(2 Squads), 3 Corellian Corvettes, 2 Transports (Colony ships or stuff liek that) and a Liberty-Class Carrier(7 squads)... They jump to the planet And the planet has an asteroid field sorrounding most of the planet except for a small place Which is extremely guarded with ties and turrets....

The Rebels Are able to move small ships (Fighters and Corvettes) through the asteroid field to draw the tie fighters away from the defended area and start hitting whatever is behind the planet. The rebels then begin their main assault through the main gate and tear through the few defenders left.... Eventually Smashing the defenders... Imperial reinforcements arrive.... 3 ISDs(12 Fighters.... 4 Per ISD) + An Interdictor.(This depends on wether the Interdictor can actually block all attempts to run away)
The rebels position themselves in what was the former defense in an attempt to prevail since the interdictor blocks their escape...

However since the forces are uneven (3 ISDs vs 1 Mon Cal) The imperials will eventually attack through the main gate just to notice that most of the rebel fighters had sneaked up on them and are attacking the interdictor in the back... since the 3 ISDs are in the gap of the asteroids the rebel ships have to rush through them in order to get to the edge of the gravity well and they eventually jump to safety

Yes im a great novelist and all O.o This could actually turn into real gameplay you know....

Question about the Star Wars Mod...

I can only assume to direct this question to Eville, since with all his past experience and fame, I figure he would be having the most to do with this mod. Is the intention to just include a few of the main Star Wars ships into the mod, or will there be a chance/attempt at including additional spacecraft into the game?

I have been a big fan of all the work done with the game Empire at War/FOC, especially the mods such as Zerox's and Nomada's Alliance where the mods attempts at including the entire star wars universe into the game.

Will this mod only include the core star wars warships, or is it planned on finding ways to include more spaceships than currently allowed to create a full star wars universe?

I am very eager to see this mod developed, for I cannot wait to see a Star Destroyer pummel a planet with turbo lasers. I wish you all much success and good luck.

Eville did a mod for homeworld 2 (Space RTS) and had a LOT of ships.... even some that i didnt even knew existed.... but i dont know about sins.... selection is kinda limited i guess.. but thats for eville to decide

considering Zerox still hasn't imported all of the models I have publicly released I will see what the engine allows us to do

Another Scenario that can happen if capital ships are too expensive is a Carrier class WW2 fight will take place where the Caps are out of reach of each other's guns and there will be fighters all over each group.... but the ships will stay out of reach for fear of losing them

One side or the other would still be forced from the battlefield in that scenario. The side with the more powerful 'big gun' fleet would simply close the distance until the other side would either flee or engage (or risk getting 'Interdicted').

Keep in mind that there are specialized corvettes and frigates that are excellent at taking out strikecraft (Lancers come to mind).

Yeah I know about the lancers.... But think.... 1 Mon cal + 3 AA Corvettes ( Corellian ) Vs An ISD + 2 Lancers would turn out pretty interesting huh....Sides would be equally balanced.

And another thing i just came across.... X-Wings Are powerful All-Purpose Craft.... See If they are equipped with proton torpedoes they would be able to take on a medium corvette.... But Y-wings are the Alliance default bomber.... How are you going to portray that? The X-wing can reppel Tie Fighters.... Escort Capital Ships and attack starbases or trade ships on their own... but what about the Y-Wing? And the A and B wings?

I think that will fall under EvilleJedi's domain.

That said, I can GUESS that EvilleJedi will follow official specs for his ships. So the X-wing will be general purpose fighter/bomber with a good attack versus ships/structures AND versus strikecraft.

The Y-wing will be an older bomber that will likely have a bit higher bomber value over the X-Wing, but a much lower anti strikecraft value. It will also have lower speed and survivability.

Initially The Y-Wing was the official Fighter/Bomber of the rebellion and even pirates Due to its "Survivability".... It can stand a lot of firepower thanks to its powerful shields.... The Y-wing Should match a Tie fighter.... thats my opinion

Note that the game does have code for the ability to jump deeper into a gravwell. Giving Rebels the ability to jump far into a gravity well, while the Empire has to start much farther out would be an option of asymmetric balancing that is possible with the engine.