Wanted: Best solution for over-population issue

There have been some suggestions on how to deal with the overpopulation issue in the game. Overpopulation is a problem because once a planet goes beyond a certain population point, it starts having morale problems. Major morale problems. I'm sure this was meant to be a penalty aspect of the game that you're to work into your game strategy. However, it goes way too far. Quickly no matter what you do, the morale on your planets plummets. You can have all the morale bonuses, propaganda machines, etc. and it will still plummet. I would imagine the planet would eventually becomes like the world in the original Star Trek episode "The Mark of Gideon". ;p

The only way I've found and I hear others have found to take care of this is simply toss a fourth of the population on a colony ship. Unfortunately, now the problem becomes what do you do with that colony ship once all the planets are colonized? What I do is simply have them go from one side of the map to the other. Forever in transit. It is kind of humorous after a while. This massive convoy of colony ships going between the same two points forever. A friend says he just destroys the ship once it has left orbit. He says this has its humorous side as well. You've just tossed a billion people on a colony ship, there are no known planets to colonize, and you explode the ship right there next to the planet. What then happens? Morale improves on that planet. That's not the humorous part. The humorous part is... You soon need to do this again AND there's people on that planet that will get on the next "colony" ship. LOL

However, neither of these solutions is a good one. Both increase the micro-managing you need to do of the game and creates a surreal world of either billions upon billions of eternally homeless people or horrific mass slaughter.

Possible solutions to correct this issue could be:

A) Population cap on each planet. This is along the lines of what was done in MOO2. A planet only holds so many and once that is reached, population stops growing at that time. This is the simplest solution. Then when you build a colony ship from that planet and take a portion of its population off, reproduction starts back up on that planet until it hits its max again. Or if you improve the planet to enable it to hold more people, reproduction starts up again until the max is once again reached.

B) The China Solution. Your government forces only one child per couple. I would have this option be only available to neutral and evil empires.

C) Forced sterilization. I would think this would be an option that could only be available to evil empires. The empire sterilizing all criminals and, just like unwanted puppies at the dog pound, orphans. The more overpopulation becomes a problem, the lesser the crime that warrants sterilization as part of its punishment. This option could actually help improve morale since only law-abiding citizens are reproducing and they're passing along their subservient mindset to their children.

D) The Great Migration. This could be an option for good, neutral, and evil empires. You create a special colony ship that puts all its colonists in cryogenic stasis then send them off the map to "parts unknown". Now it wouldn't need to be a special ship but simply an option you could pick when double clicking on the colony ship. The ship then flies off at its normal speed in a random direction until it goes off the map. The biggest negative of having it be simply a double-click option is that this still requires a lot of micro-managing. The benefit of having a special cryogenic colony ship is that it could be something that you could automate. When overpopulation occurs on planet and there's no more planets to colonize, the game makes your next ship from that planet a cryogenic colony ship to take off the overpopulation and then automatically flies it off the map.

D) How developed a planet is determines its population growth and even decrease. When a planet has few high-tech buildings (i.e., research labs), it has a high rate of population increase. As it adds high-tech buildings, population growth slows. It eventually stabilizes. Add more high-tech buildings and it even starts to decline. You then have a problem of underpopulation. This is more reality based as underpopulation is a problem with all industrialized countries in the world today. The only reason these countries increase in population is because of the influx of immigrants. If this population increase/decrease system were implemented, I'd allow population to move amongst your planets. You allow population movement (behind-the-scenes to reduce micro-managing) and you then would need to have some underdeveloped planets cranking out people to shore up the populations of the population-decreasing highly developed planets. ;)

This last option I like the best. It makes sense and is based in reality. It still gives you a problem you need to deal with, but not one that so cripples you as the current overpopulation problem does.

So which of the above do you like best? :) And do you have another suggestion to add to the list? :D
818 views 36 replies
Reply #1 Top
Ugh. How I wish we could have a preview screen on this forum. :p That and a spellchecker.

The second "D)" should be: E)

For those posting replies, please make subsequent suggestions start with the letter F. Thanks.
Reply #2 Top
I would have to say the population cap. I think its normal for a planet to have a maximum population. Eventually there will literally be no more room for new people. The planet would be full!! And I wouldn't like living on a full planet.
Reply #3 Top
Oh, and also be ability to edit your posts once posted would be much appreciated by us less-than-perfect posters.
Reply #4 Top
I think a population cap based on planet quality would be the simplest solution. Class 15 planets only hold so many people, and once that number is reached, no more can be born. Improve the planet, you get more people. Conversely, if the planet quality falls, people start dying off.

To add an element of strategy to the question, implement a empire-wide slider that allows you to deliberately overpopulate your planets (to gain the extra manpower/research/money/etc.) at the price of sacrificing morale due to overcrowding.

- Ash
Reply #6 Top
When you take people off a planet does it have any negative side effects, such as the stuff in your military and social que being built slower like in MOO? Or is that all depended on you sliders, tax rate and spending?
Reply #7 Top
Scott,

Game fun is the number one concern. Whatever makes the game fun should be implemented, if it doesn't make other parts of the game less fun. However, I must react to something you implied. . .


Your option "E" is not applicable on a planetwide scale, if you use Earth as a model. Certainly individual countries have experienced this phenomenon, but on a planetary scale population continues to grow. Indeed, I would argue that the success of modern capitalism requires continued population growth (internally or externally generated). Rather than the Earth becoming overpopulated, per common opinion in the developed world in the 1970s, a current major worldwide concern is the "graying" of population (insufficient youth to support the elderly) and the need to further increase population via increased birthrates rather than lengthened lifespan.

Therefore, GalCiv's modeling makes perfect sense from a "reality" perspective. If that bothers gameplay, I suggest the MOO2 solution of planetary limits. My suggestion: send the excess population to >15 planets, and let them become independent or someone else's problem.

I may be the only person old enough to remember _Logan's Run_, but arbitrary solutions (government or game imposed) do not work and will not reflect "reality" better. Rather, look to Robert Heinlein's "Future History" backstory for the most likely "reality" result regarding planetary populations.


Have Fun!

Jim
Reply #8 Top
I think the current population model is manageable, it takes a considerable amount of effort to keep your people happy, but it can be done. I DO think there should be a practical limit to population. The environment of a Class 15 planet would eventually reach a point it couldn't support anymore population without completely destroying the planet itself (decrease in PQ).

This limit could be adjustable in a way similar to the taxation rate. You could have an "optimal population limit" be the default, with the variance being up and down from that point. Perhaps your civilization has some sort of population control method (be it good or evil in nature) that helps you set a balance point between production and population density (happiness).

If that were the case, you could choose to allow overcrowding to power your production machine, which makes you have to provide those morale boosters to keep the overcrowded planets happy. Then again, you could choose to set a limit below even the optimal levels, providing planets which don't produce an over-abundance of production, economy or research but are happy without any of the high maintenance social structures, which in turn doesn't weigh on your economy.

~SDC~
Reply #9 Top
Just my 2 cents..

There should be a maximum population limit for planets, but it should be very high as to be almost unreachable. Combined with this there should be a new social policy slider for 'optimal population'.

And on top of that maybe put in some new euthinasia/birth control techs. Like the other guy said 'there must have been a session of the UP where they outlawed birth control that I missed' LOL
Reply #10 Top
Are there any numbers on what the ideal population is for a specific class of a planet? I learned about this problem the hard way when I dropped 4 billion people on a class 13 planet. Yikes!

M
Reply #11 Top
Jlrogers,

I guess I'd argue the opposite for capitalism. As industries evolve, they need less and less workers. Look at how many workers are needed in the agricultural industry today. A fraction of what it was in the past. Reason: improved technology. Same goes for manufacturing. To make a Ford car today, it takes a quarter of the work force as it did to make a Model-T. And there's really no industry that's immune to this. The restaurant industry has been this way as well. The number of restaurant workers needed to service a set number of customers has steadily dropped with the introduction of assembly-line techniques and improved technology.

As for our world still growing, I would attribute that to the vast majority of the world being still undeveloped. Leave the major cities of China and you travel back in time to basically the Middle Ages. Same goes for rural India, Africa, former Soviet states, etc.

Given my argument above, I still say my Suggestion E (the second D) is reality based. :)
Reply #12 Top
I vote for population cap, although a "mass migrate" with a select how many people and then simply have them disappear with a window acknowledgement (i.e., 400M People have migrated).
Reply #13 Top
You know, you can sorta alleviate this problem by deliberately NOT spending any points on "population growth" ability (more of a LIABILITY) and NOT building any Wonders/Trade goods that increase "population growth".

(In case you're not already doing this)
Reply #14 Top
Yea overpopulate a level 12 planet and then just hand it to them. It will have a morale 0 and after a while it will leave them.

~SDC~
Reply #15 Top
BTW.. Any of the above mentioned population control methods should have severe consequences in the alignment scheme. I can't believe that the morale of a good-aligned planet/empire should rise because you killed all of the old people or had forced birth-control. You can bet that if China was on a Morale scale they would have a morale of zero.

I believe the population works like it is.

~SDC~
Reply #16 Top
I wish i could create extra people housing modules and cart off a portion of my population to my starbases or any allied starbases for that matter like B5.



~SDC~
Reply #17 Top
For me, the problem isn't population per se, it's what to do what a planet's morale drops suddenly. The only short-term fix is to take people off-planet, or pump money into propaganda... but so far when it's happened to me, I've been able to ride it out.

The only time I've had empire-wide morale problems is when I was mis-managing things anyway. If your ability to improve your race's morale stat starts lagging behind your population growth, you're *going* to have problems. Buy techs that unlock +morale building. Try and get yourself a morale resource or two (these are extremely valuable in the late game). Drop the tax-rate and establish trade-routes to make up for it (or make buckets of starfighters and sell them to a minor race :) ).

GalCiv needs an FAQ :)

~SDC~
Reply #18 Top
Could the "max population" amount be tuned such that if you have EVERY morale enhancing building built on a planet, then at max population, they'd be 50% content, for example?
I don't think the over population problem should be completely wiped out, but it does need to be somewhat more manageable, if the only limit to how many people you can have on a planet is it's morale.

~SDC~
Reply #19 Top
I just played a game on a gigantic galaxy and never had any significant problems. A planet or two at a time give problems, but overall it wasn't hard. I focused mainly on controlling the tax rate as a means of keeping people happy. Keep it low enough and things are ok.

Grifman
Reply #20 Top
This seems to be the consensus of the more experienced players.

A breakdown of exactly what factors are affecting morale, and by how much, on a per-planet and/or empire-wide basis might help people understand what the problem is, and how to fix it.

~SDC~
Reply #21 Top
How about linking the pop growth rate and the morale of a planet such that growth is fast when morale is high (because the planet is empty), but declines to 0 when morale approaches 50%. This way the planet wouldn't grow so large as to lower the morale too greatly. Plus when you build or mine morale boosters, then your planet's pop will begin growing a bit as well. This could represent an increased homicide rate as well as personal values moving away from traditional family ones, reducing the birth rate as morale declines. If the morale got low enough, the pop could actually shrink to compensate as well. Just a thought....
Reply #23 Top
You've got to tell them! SOYLENT GREEN IS DRENGIN!! Mmmm... tasty!

Now soylent pink... that's a different story. Tastes like chicken.

~SDC~
Reply #24 Top
What we need as players is a good idea of how many people should be on a planet of "x" class.

M

~SDC~
Reply #25 Top
I'm not sure there's any such figure... what you're really after is "morale loss due to population". When that starts getting too high, it's time to depopulate (or get a morale building).

~SDC~