Vega ScoutWorks, exporters of fine scouts, bankrupter of EMPIRES! (AI need a fix?)

from Stardock Forums
AI is only at Subnormal, but maybe this exploit shuld be fixed if it carries through at higher AI levels:

Ok, been playing a game where I made a STUPID lease deal early on to get Colony Ships... found myself HURTING for cash. I was the Pacifist party so a tech run/sell economy wouldn't work. I began pumping out scouts and dumping them on the Drengin for 10bc/5 turns each... they only cost 20 to build! Then through some unknown circumstance the market price went up to 15bc/5T each! 45?

Wow... SO I build batches of 3 and dump a 45BC/5T deal on the Drengin again and again and again (I mean I build 12 a turn and do 3-batch deals, he won't buy 4 at a time for some reason); I saturate the bastard each turn and pretty soon he's bankrupted! He has to STOP his wars! ScoutWorks Unlimited(TM) has single handedly saved Empires!!

Ok, so now this Corporation is responsible for 80% of my Empire's budget and together we accomplish 55% of the TOTAL spending in the galaxy. It's like the TECH strategy only WORSE on the AI, because scouts are WORTHLESS! The drengin have 100's and 100's of scouts, doing what? We don't know... We only make 'em.

This export, supply/side economics is cool, except where it cripples the AI... some moderation on your importation would be in order, no?

Brad, did you read this? What do you think? :D
425 views 12 replies
Reply #1 from Stardock Forums Top
Oh, my Metaverse submission isn't working, I click on it and get nothing afterwards, but since this game isn't done yet and its the first one in 1.01a for me, maybe it'll work and I can submit it...
Reply #2 from Stardock Forums Top
Oh one other odd note: DURING a war w/the Drengin I could sell him a bunch of scouts then attack them outside my stars and gain experience from the target shooting... sorta silly.

~SDC~
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Reply #3 from Stardock Forums Top
I posted a note to the bugs thread about this. Apparently in 1.01a.031 (Monday 3/31/2003) you can get the *same* per-turn amount for 5 turns as you would for 0/1 turns. If you set the number of turns to 6, the bc/turn amount will be much more sane, although you will still make a nice profit.
Reply #4 from Stardock Forums Top
I think people should try out their "exploits" on Normal or Intelligent levels before posting them. The AI will fall for stupid tricks on subnormal intelligence because the AI is, well, at subnormal intelligence.

I think subnormal is meant for people to pick up the game basics without being decimated in 50 turns and for people who are not experienced 4X players. Think about a 9 or 10 year old playing a 4X game for the first time.
Reply #5 from Stardock Forums Top
"I think subnormal is meant for people to pick up the game basics without being decimated in 50 turns and for people who are not experienced 4X players. Think about a 9 or 10 year old playing a 4X game for the first time."

Sub-normal isn't the lowest setting. Fool and Beginner come below that. So Sub-Normal is actually 3rd from the bottom.

That said, I understand your point... the AI is still deliberately hampered at that level, and complaining of its stupidities there is a bit like complaining that there's fighting in a Jet Li movie.

- Ash
Reply #6 from Stardock Forums Top
The 5-month "exploit" even works at Genius level. (I just tried it.) I got 71bc * 5months = 355 for Comm Theory tech, and 54bc * 5 = 270 for 3 scouts.

Strangely enough, the Torians were *making* money (available for tribute) even after I sold them diplomacy and the Diplomatic translator for 478/month for 5 months. (They only had 478 available when I made the deal. Next turn they had 506.) This was less than 2 years after the start of the game. (I bought 3 scouts and put all my resources into tech just for this testing game.)

This is definitely a bug, and think the only honorable thing to do is use 6 or more months for the payment length until the next patch.
Reply #7 from Stardock Forums Top
I'm glad some exploring has been done on this, because if its happening at "Genius" it's just not right.

~SDC~
Reply #8 from Stardock Forums Top
Hmm, this smells like an exploit that needs fixing.

I wouldn't even think of such a devious plan. Selling scouts to the AI would never come to my mind, but it's good people find out these exploits. I bet the developers never tried such tactics too.

I find it extremely cheesy to use such tactics, so I will never use them even if it's possible, but some people probably can't resist and go on winning all their games like this to get a high Metaverse score.

Knowing Stardock though this will be fixed before we know it!
Reply #9 from Stardock Forums Top
The point isn't to limit my playing so badly. There is a *legitimate* use for this tactic, just not to the unlimited degree *I* found possible in the game- the Drengin with >300 scouts is not a scary thing. But being able to sell scouts and such should be OK if the AI knows not to buy so that it has more than 5 or so at any time.

I really hate artificially limiting myself in creative ways when I play a *strategy* game, you know? :notsure:

~SDC~
Reply #10 from Stardock Forums Top
Oh one other thing- I didn't think of the "plan" so much as it was born out of neccessity! I was in a BAD bind by turn 10 and needed to come up with something to SAVE the empire! What began as a few custom jobs exported to higher class private Drengin citizens became a fad I couldn't control, and eventually EVERY Drengin wanted one supplied to them courtesy of their own government! :D LOL :D

~SDC~
Reply #11 from Stardock Forums Top
Mind you I think it's a good thing player's like you find out about these things so that the devs can anticipate on the problems, but I'm just not the type of player that would ever think about doing such a thing.

~SDC~
Reply #12 from Stardock Forums Top
hehe... seemed perfectly capitalist and obvious to me. ;)