This talk of AI is really beginning to get on my nerves

I have enough good ideas to mention that it's tempting to feed your trolling, but the style of your post just isn't friendly enough. If you want some serious answers about things, just try to bring a bit of fun and a good attitude to the board. Believe me, I've seen far more negative stuff, but I wouldn't respond to those at all.

Take care

To be fair on the analogy though, the US has 12x the population of Iraq and an estimated 1,772x in GDP (roughly 10 trillion vs. 6 billion). As you can see, the US doesn't need to devote more than 0.06% of their total GDP to completely overwhelm Iraq.

As for more balanc between the AI races, try upping the difficulty level a bit and play on a larger map with loose clusters or scattered stars. I guarantee you'll be in for a rough ride.

AI civs can achieve critical mass much like a human one can. Normally it depends from what I've seen on the way the galaxy is set up. If everyone is split into their own similar-sized cluster, and noone has any major expansion options, it's not unusual to see a game go the whole way with noone gaining much of an edge over anyone else.

On the other hand, any civ that starts in a position with easy uncontested expansion options will quickly develop so much momentum that only the human player can hope to overcome them. That's not a sign of a bad AI, but rather one of a good one, one that can capitalize on its advantages.

BTW, the 'race not showing up as an attack option' was explained in another post. Basically, if their relationship with a race is good enough you can't ask them to attack that race, so it won't show up as an option.

Switching to 100% social/military/research doesn't mean every citizen in the empire is doing that. Your citizens are simply taxpayers. They lead normal lives no matter what your social/military/research sliders are set to. Those sliders are not controlling what the general population does, they're controlling what the government-owned infrastructure does.

Yes, one can assume you haven't actually played this game very much. The AIs do form alliances, backstab, recognise threats, and basically do everything you say they don't.

Moreso, what they don't do is launch futile, pre-emptive suicides against other races just because but rather either cower like the whipped dog they are or try and form an alliance with the stronger race; that feature alone separates this AI from every other 4X AI in the history of gaming.

Oh Hail! Michael Lummis, King of Nice, Chief of Goodness, Lord of Righteousness.

Do me a favor, if you can't or won't respond with an answer that is constructive to my overall point, then DON'T - Mr. I won't answer because you didn't write nice enough. That is such a pompous and righteous attitude to take that it makes me nauseous that you even wrote it. Respect my right to write in whatever tone I wish, and I'll respect your right to not have to read it.

I knew someone was going to get into semantics when it came to my analogy. Why is it when the point is clear, someone needs to argue irrelevant points.

Interstellar, the point is that government programs don't stop in the face of focusing one one goal or another. What I'm saying in general, is that this isn't so much a strategy, as it is a trick. A trick that works, but I feel it is too effective.

When I first started playing this game, I thought the AI was pretty intuitive, but after many many games I'm finding that it all breaks down into the same crap. I feel the game is flawed in it's dynamics regarding each other. Yeah they react to you, but I just don't see them reacting to a Drengrin invasion for example. The other races are content to see the sovereignty of other nations be undermined by invaders, so long as they're not the ones being attacked. Furthermore, when the Drengrin are clearly 'Purely Evil' the other races are subservient to them, but when I'm choosing an evil path-I'll be damned if even the smalled, weakest Civilization isn't in there throwing rocks at me.

I want consistency in the AIs behavior. Is that too much to ask?

That's odd becase in the last two games I've played, I've had one in which I was approached the Arceans, asking me to recogognize the Drengin (then later the Yor) as a common threat and to help by giving ships and money to other races who are actively at war with the Drengin (or Yor). Since neither the Arcaeans nor I are in any position to take on the major powers, I consider that a pretty intelligent decision.

In the other game I saw three different races (Arceans, Alterians, and Yor) gang up on the Drengin and beat them into a bloody pulp, ignoring me militarily but somebody was spending a lot of money to destabilize my economy and the Alterians were trying culture flip all my border planets.

I do agree that the 100% flip/flop on spending isn't realistic. I think that there should be some type of 'inertia' factor built in, which should take all civs some time to change effective allocations based on size and tech level. So if you have 20 planets scattered around the galaxy and you've been producing 50%/50% social/research for the last 2 years, it should take at least 6 or 8 months to ramp up military to 100%, and there should be a 'waste' factor built into that as well.

Overlod,

Your second message is fun as hell. Welcome aboard.

Your second concern in your first post is moot. This is a game, after all: see MOO3 if you wish to witness the paradox of attempting to have 'realistic game elements'.

As for your shot at the AI, it is well aimed but either the gun is too small or the target too big. Try the mods forum for some initial info on how to mod the game and take a look at the ship stats. I've found that with some tweaking here and there, offensive wars can be made costlier than they are, thereby slowing expansion and giving everyone more breathing room in which to be unlucky or wrong.

"Interstellar, the point is that government programs don't stop in the face of focusing one one goal or another. What I'm saying in general, is that this isn't so much a strategy, as it is a trick. A trick that works, but I feel it is too effective."

It is effective, but less effective at higher levels. Additionaly, there is a point of diminishing returns, so you are penalized by 1. not completeing social or military or research by cranking up 1 of the three, and 2. you are get less of an affect the higher you crank it.

It is a viable strat, but you *are* losing all production for those sliders you have at 0 percent. Perhaps this is one reason that the 'wasted production' issue hasn't been fixed yet. As Brad said, those workers at factories are not now working on military projects.. they are in essense, laid off.

Anyways.. what is your general point? That the game is to easy? I would guess if you have an issue with being able to focus all your effors on social or research or military, you feel this is unbalanced in favor of the human player.

Submitted your scores to the metaverse? I would like to see your completed games on high difficulty settings in huge+ galaxies. LOL

If the game is NOT to easy.. what's the problem? Do you have an issue with realism? For myself, I could care less about the specifics how the game is made more difficult.. I like a challange. That the game doesn't cheat, and that you CAN formulate these strats are what imo, makes the game fun. It isn't as if it is a cheese tactic.

And lastly (and most importantly), if you feel it IS a cheese tactic.. simply don't do it. That is the nice thing about it being a single player game. If you feel that surrounding your border with freighters after a U.N. agreement is a cheesy tactic and don't agree with it.. you simply don't do it. It doesn't affect anyone but yourself. Same goes with the slider. I myself don't find it a cheese tactic.. it is a useful and fun strat. But if YOU feel it is a cheese tactic.. simply.. dont.. do.. it. ta daaa.. problem solved.

And honestly, I don't think it is overpowering. I use maxed sliders quite a bit.. and i've still gotten my rear handed to me. IMO, maximizing the use of sliders to go into 'deficit spending'.. or balancing things is a key strategy for victory.

fleabitfox

You are a funny guy. From a distance.

Glory of the Internet--not having to meet everyone you deal with on the forums.

If you aren't enjoying the AI yet, pump up the difficulty a wee bit more. A masochistic game setting will likely challenge you. Keep up the work on your funny game, too.

And the Metaverse scores to back up your whining are.... where?

In addition to Vorlin's explanation of why there wasn't an option to ask another race to attack a third party, did you check the "treaties" screen beforehand? Every time I've gone to ask an AI to attack someone and the option hasn't been there, the AI has already been at war with the third party. You can't declare a double war, one is enough.

Try a Gigantic galaxy. It gives the AI a decent chance to gear up and get it's plan in motion. Since you have no metaverse scores submitted, I don't know what version you're playing, but if you're still playing the "out-of-the-box" retail copy, get the Bonus Pack and the latest updates.

100% to one area is unrealistic? You do realise it's a game, right? Games are for fun. Being able to devote all your resources to one area is a gameplay mechanic. Yes, it could've been designed such that you could only devote X% less than 100% to any one area, but then it would look even sillier.

I can't agree at all with your criticism regarding the AIs standing around and watching. I've lost count of the number of times the AI has approached me and asked me for help in their battle, or told me that such and such an AI is trouble and we both better prepare ourselves to defend the galaxy. If you think the AI isn't talking about you behind your back just as much, yer dreamin. I've had two races declare war on me simultaneously before and it ain't pretty.

Jack the difficulty up, play in a larger galaxy and submit some metaverse scores so it's not just idle whining/bragging.
Put your money where your mouth is, as they say.

~SDC~

oh.. and about your original complaint.. I don't get it. The AI is superb. Yes.. quite often a dominant race will get an advantage over the rest. But it isn't always the same race (Drengin often are powerful.. but not always. The Altarians are giving me fits lately), therefore (since all the AI's have their own script), I would say it IS balanced.

For a kick, make one race genius at one end of the morality spectrum, and then make the rest a bit dumber on the other end (and join them). 'tis fun..

But really.. if you don't see the difference between this and past AI's, I dunno what genre of games you have been playing. It is refreshing to not see the same, bland all-identical AI's that are in 99.9% of all TBS games. I've been backstabbed and helped, bullied and had my rear kissed. The AI in this game while not perfect (simply because no one has or will for a LONG time create a perfect AI), is very good imo.

fleabitfox

Hmm..
"Every single time, one dominant AI takes over while the others cower in their corners of the galaxy. Listen, I don't care if this AI is the precursor to Cyberdyne Systems. I care about balance."

What you described there is essentially what earth will be/is like already.

Hey, lets ask the UK to attack the USA, shall we?
LOL

Lets see...the AI is superior to every other computer AI ever developed for a game that has this many variables...Fact.

It doesn't think 100% perfectly like a skilled human opponent could...Fact.

NO computer today or likely within our lifetimes (certainly not before we're all gumming our food) will ever think dynamically as well a human...Fact...or at least a very likely prediction.

Soooo....whats your point Overlord. That the computer doesn't think as well as a human...well hot damn give that man the "stateing the obvious of the year" award.

Is there any other game that does it better? Nope. Is there any other game that doesn't rely on heavily scripted events to make it appear like the AI is thinking that even comes remotely close to how good GalCiv's AI is? Nope.

It ain't perfect, but it is the best there is, and for that its deserving of all the hype its gotten.

And as for your tone. You're right. You do have the constitutional right to be an asshat; but you catch more flys with sugar than vinegar.

I completely agree with Fleabit--I have even seen the Torians out there kicking everyone down the field during some games. This is especially ugly if the Torians and Altarians start somewhat close to each so that both ally and still have room to expand. That makes them ugly enemies (being that the Yor and Dregnin aren't quite as keen on buddying up).

It's nifty that you never know who the super-ugly guy is going to be. Sure, the Dregnin often have a great start, but they get taken down a notch during even medium-length games. That leaves other people to divide the spoils. Milking the Dregnin for Tech by slashing them up in a failed far attempt against me is a common strategy that I use. Let military drop, Dregnin declare war, build up and scare the hell out of 'em. Suckers.

"Hey, lets ask the UK to attack the USA, shall we?"

I think it'd take a bit more than Aphrodisiacs and a couple of Battleships to break up that little partnership! LOL

~SDC~

It is just a reality.. there will be a few strong ones, and many weak ones. Check out the real world. How many super powers are there? A heck of a lot less than countries on the planet, that's for certain.

With only 6 possible races (you and 5 others, not including the minor civs.. which, btw.. when aligned, can be annoying and occasionaly nasty), having 1 super power is hardly unrealistic. What would be unrealistic is if it was ALWAYS the same superpower. It is not. I've had all 5 doing well, although some do better than others, imo.

Also, btw.. on different map sizes, certain AIs will do better than others. The very cool affect of having distinct AI's for each race.

fleabitfox

One thing I like to do is arm 2nd galaxy nations with decent defensive technology (+soldiering stuff is the best), especially if they are at war with my primary rival. This way, they put up at least a more expensive fight, drag things out, and I am given a chance to grow strong while avoiding direct conflict (unless it's time for me to let loose the dogs of war and all that rot). You really can wield some evil diplomacy in this game. If they put trade embargo stuff back into play, things will just get evil. (grin)

I can’t say what’s happened in your games, but I can write with a fair bit of authority on mine.

In my last game the Drengin were in the number one position, having taken over the Torians and the minor races. I can’t recall what happened to the Altarians, but they might have been Drengin fodder as well. The second and third strongest powers, the Arceans and the Yor had formed a very tight alliance against the Drengin. And lastly, dying in fourth place, was me.

All three of the alien races detested me, with the Drengin being the first to take advantage of my weakness to attack me. Smelling blood the Arceans and Yor followed suit. My trade routes has all been shut down, I was going backwards on every measure, and I was figuring a new game was my best option. I only stayed on because I’d started the game under 1.2 and figured my Miltary Party +50% hit points + pre-nerfed Battlehammers might give me a chance.

As it turned out I was able to stave off a few incursions and attempted invasions and cause enough attrition that the Drengin – who by now were fighting all three races - finally sued for peace. With Drengin attacking from one front I figured I could go on the offensive, and launched an invasion into Yor space. I managed to capture a planet, held it for a few years, then got thrown out.

At this point the Yor asked for peace, and I negotiated a peace with the Arceans as well.

Now remember, at this point all three races hated me.

Although my economy and technology were still stagnating due to the war I rebuilt my fleet to the point it represented a serious deterrent. At this point I pushed most of my resources into research and social production to try and catch up. I also combined quite a bit of schmoozing with the AIs with playing them off against each other. Whoever was currently losing the war getting a few Battlehammers every few years, which kept the war going nicely

This freed me up to go nuts on peaceful expansion. Several years later I managed to outstrip the AI players in research and leased and traded technologies with all three races. After a few all three would come begging peridocially, and the Drengin were even giving me gifts.

By this time they all loved me.

I converted my economy to a war footing, built a megafleet, offered the Drengin an alliance, attacked the Yor (and, as a result, the Arceans), then ate the Yor, followed by the Arceans, and earned a cultural victory the next turn.

So if you want my perspective the AI is an absolute delight. It’s not perfect – for example the Yor-Arcean alliance was so tight that it was very difficult to initiate a peace with both parties at the same time – but the AI is cool enough to have kept me engrosed most of last weekend. And most of last week - and the weekend before that...

"I think it'd take a bit more than Aphrodisiacs and a couple of Battleships to break up that little partnership!"
Exactly my point!

Well I've only played this game 3 times now, first two were without the 1.02 patch, last one with.
I've played my fair share of 4x'ers... moo123, Se's..
And I also noticed that there's ussually 1 very powerful civ that sorta takes over.
But like I mentioned before, thats the best realism your gonna get, I mean, look around you bro, there's a reason we see macdonald's in china LOL
Happy gaming all!

"The other races are content to see the sovereignty of other nations be undermined by invaders, so long as they're not the ones being attacked."

Kind of like Tony Blair....

~SDC~

Boboplay many games. Only sometimes does one AI dominate like Overlord say. Mosttimes not happen. Bobo not understand. Bobo sad for Overlord. Not happen to Bobo.

Frogboy, you checking this out? Guy talks smack about yer game and gets beat down. Heh heh, kinda did ask for it though.

The game rocks, though I would have to say I hate the AI as well... because I keep getting my ass handed to me. When I start winning, I'll start submitting to Metaverse.

Pinky