Generals » Forum Post by Draginol

Quoting ,

Right now GPG is in the process of implementing generals. Before I spoil it and tell you how they work it would be cool to hear HOW you guys think they should work?

Now, bear in mind, there's balancing and scope involved here. While on paper having assassins play like they do now and have generals play like a Supreme Commander style RTS might sound good, that would be impossible to balance and probably not very fun in practice.

So what would you guys like to see? After enough comments, we'll talk about how we're doing it and then see what tweaks we can make based on your feedback.

1. I think Generals should have no control over their portal spawned army because that is what gives experience how is anyone going to get experience to level if their is no one to fight. (ie general just builds and army and holds them back for one big mass wave)

2. Generals should be able to create an unique unit out of a barracks that it can control via a Supcom or RTS style. (1 unique creep per portal wave of creeps) can build more at a huge cost of gold.

3. Generals should have skills or use gold that buff the hitpoints, armour, attack of it's army both unique and portal.

4. Generals should have the ability to build base defenses and have skills or use gold that increase buildings attack, hitpoints.

5. Generals should give a rally cry (boost of attack and hitpoints) to creeps when it ventures out of base to frontline attack the little folk like it when a big wig sticks his neck out.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Quoting HorseRadish,

reply 1

quoting post
Right now GPG is in the process of implementing generals. Before I spoil it and tell you how they work it would be cool to hear HOW you guys think they should work?

Now, bear in mind, there's balancing and scope involved here. While on paper having assassins play like they do now and have generals play like a Supreme Commander style RTS might sound good, that would be impossible to balance and probably not very fun in practice.

So what would you guys like to see? After enough comments, we'll talk about how we're doing it and then see what tweaks we can make based on your feedback.

1. I think Generals should have no control over their portal spawned army because that is what gives experience how is anyone going to get experience to level if their is no one to fight. (ie general just builds and army and holds them back for one big mass wave)

2. Generals should be able to create an unique unit out of a barracks that it can control via a Supcom or RTS style. (1 unique creep per portal wave of creeps) can build more at a huge cost of gold.

3. Generals should have skills or use gold that buff the hitpoints, armour, attack of it's army both unique and portal.

4. Generals should have the ability to build base defenses and have skills or use gold that increase buildings attack, hitpoints.

5. Generals should give a rally cry (boost of attack and hitpoints) to creeps when it ventures out of base to frontline attack the little folk like it when a big wig sticks his neck out.

Supreme Commander style RTS might sound good, that would be impossible to balance

I agree this is just not logical the way this game is being played out.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Per above - any RTS that appears is likely to be fairly stripped down and streamlined; RTS only in the sense that you will have some degree of unit control over a squad. Even that isn't certain, at the moment. I'd be surprised if Generals had the ability to create defensive/offensive buildings or generate creeps from a barracks. IMO it would work better with current gameplay mechanics to generate guard creeps on the fly, spell or channeled structure-based generation (i.e. lay an egg, plant a seed, etc.).

Successfully updated karma reason!

Quoting HorseRadish,

reply 1

2. Generals should be able to create an unique unit out of a barracks that it can control via a Supcom or RTS style. (1 unique creep per portal wave of creeps) can build more at a huge cost of gold.

I love this idea. It gives the general an automatic balance and if careful with his units, it gives him a way to dominate opponents after a certain number of waves. The problem with this to me is, what if I like to throw my unit against impossible odds. I may have just killed 2 demigods, but I am now crippled much more than the demigods who are back to full strength after ~30 respawn time.

Successfully updated karma reason!

who says creeps can't go back to the health crystal?

Successfully updated karma reason!

I would like to add that in other post I had out there from Demigod Q&A with lead designer Mike Marr that the article was correct and that the creep control is gone. IE the death of the general all we are going to get from this class now is one unique creep about the level of the healer and will not be able to build or control anything but that one unit and i am starting to wonder if that unit will be a non controlled AI. We get some bonus spells but the generals appear as on now useless. You will not have a mass army to attack with if you are lucky under 10.

I just dont understand how GPGnet had a great concept for a game (The reason I want in the Beta) and now it is imposable.

Come on you have to give us some army controll or stop calling this a RPG RTS Mix. SCATHIS were are you when we need you LOL.

Successfully updated karma reason!

If you got two portals you should get 2 of your unique that you control one for each portal so then you should be back to a possitive number at 30 seconds of lets say +4 if creeps come out every 15 seconds. but then if you think you got them on the defensive use your gold advantage you just got for 30 seconds and build more of your unique unit.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Quoting lprometheus,

reply 6

I would like to add that in other post I had out there from Demigod Q&A with lead designer Mike Marr that the article was correct and that the creep control is gone. IE the death of the general all we are going to get from this class now is one unique creep about the level of the healer and will not be able to build or control anything but that one unit. We get some bonus spells but the generals appear as on now useless. You will not a mass army to attack with if you are lucky under 10.

Yes I told you all in that posting but nobody would believe me. HorseRadish gives himself pat on back!!!!!!

Successfully updated karma reason!

WarlokLord

Join Date 09/2007

+19

http://forums.demigodthegame.com/327102

I posted my concept here... the details are there, but essentially rts commands are abilities that use energy like any other abilities. They are unlocked like any other ability as well.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Quoting ToxDrawace,

reply 5

who says creeps can't go back to the health crystal?

No one says they can't. In fact, I hope they can. But if I have to lose 5 of 6 guard creep to kill a demigod, and he comes back in 30 secs, while I have to wait for 5 min (5waves) to get my guard creep back that is WAY uneven.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Quoting HorseRadish,

reply 7

If you got two portals you should get 2 of your unique that you control one for each portal so then you should be back to a possitive number at 30 seconds of lets say +4 if creeps come out every 15 seconds. but then if you think you got them on the defensive use your gold advantage you just got for 30 seconds and build more of your unique unit.

Creep waves definately don't come every 15 secs.

Successfully updated karma reason!

who says creeps can't go back to the health crystal?

If you would read the posting Stardock said "Supreme Commander style RTS might sound good, that would be impossible to balance" let me break this down for all of you who dont understand the posting. All creeps both Classes will NOT be under the users control. This post is to find out what they can do to stop people from being Mad!!!

+1

Successfully updated karma reason!

Quoting lprometheus,

reply 12

If you would read the posting Stardock said "Supreme Commander style RTS might sound good, that would be impossible to balance" let me break this down for all of you who dont understand the posting. All creeps both Classes will NOT be under the users control. This post is to find out what they can do to stop people from being Mad!!!

I sure hope you are wrong. I hope they mean base building and massive amounts of units are out. If they can not get this working, I will be VERY disappointed. Hopefully the solution they have in mind does not suck.

Successfully updated karma reason!

they also said it isn't finally decided yet

Successfully updated karma reason!

All creeps both Classes will NOT be under the users control

This perspective might jump the gun a bit, as "Supcom-style RTS" involves a whole lot more than unit control.

Alot could be done, strategically, with squad commands. Personally I would like the hunter/pets dynamic better than allied creep control anyway.

example: Sedna approaches UB and casts Slow, to keep him off of her. Her 5 yetis start to charge him as soon as they are in range, as their stance is set to aggressive. The Beast ignores the yetis and tries to close with Sedna. Sedna kites, keeping out of melee range and letting her yetis do the work. The yetis start to weaken, however, as UB unleashes Ooze. Sedna calls her yetis back to her, and casts heal as she runs, which is magnified 5% for every yeti within radius. She then sends the yetis back in to tangle with the beast...After UB is dead Sedna casts resurrection on one of her fallen yetis, bringing it back to life, as well as using her increased level to up the unit cap and summon another yeti through a temporary gate. Finally she spends 2000 gold to upgrade one of her yetis to a shaman, who will magnify her spell effects by 10% and heal much like a priest. Sedna, her shaman, and the 6 yeti guards set off to find another god to kill.

Successfully updated karma reason!

how do you want them to control the normal creeps, its impossible, heres some reasons:

1. what if there are more then one player on a team, and each want to take them different place?

2. you can stack them and than release them on a huge attack no one can stop.

3. you would have to canstantly tell them where to go, thats annoying.

there are more but I think you got the point, I hope were all clear about normal creep control now.

Successfully updated karma reason!

3. you would have to canstantly tell them where to go, thats annoying.

Have ever played a RTS or just play Rail road Tycoon? Go pick up a copy of SupCom then come back and play with the big boys.

I think you get my point

Successfully updated karma reason!

WarlokLord

Join Date 09/2007

+19

"Generals" need to *influence* A.I. ... I believe more conventionally certain schemes will sabotage the flow of the game, which is to a large degree dictated by Minion endeavour.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Quoting lprometheus,

reply 17

3. you would have to canstantly tell them where to go, thats annoying.
Have ever played a RTS or just play Rail road Tycoon? Go pick up a copy of SupCom then come back and play with the big boys.

I think you get my point

No need to be rude, he is just expressing his point of view. I agree with you that I want contol of the guard creep and micromanagement, but he can still have his opinion without being insulted.

Disagree with the idea, not the person.

Successfully updated karma reason!

The basic control style should be somewhere between SupCom and Republic Commando. Not much more to say about that.

I personally am more interested in how the general's units are produced. If it can be balanced, I'd want to see different generals have different production mecanisms (one general produces relatively powerful units, but they're made in a building towards the back; another vomits up units periodically, but they aren't quite as powerful; another can summon larger numbers of weaker units for some cost, etc.)

Successfully updated karma reason!

Can you give some details on republic command? I don't know that games system.

Successfully updated karma reason!

If I don't have control over the general creeps whats the point of having a "General" class of demigods. Just call them all assasins. If you have played an RTS game you have control over ALL units and ALL cercumstances that occur during the game. This is what I want the general to be like. A hero with a mini army of units that you CONTROL not partially control. If the minions of the generals are just going to be creeps that run the same paths as the others with different skins I am going to be pissed. I wont buy a single expansion of the game because being screwed with a 60 dollar game that got rid of its major selling point for its RTS fans is enough for me.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Iprometheus, I want to know where you are getting your information. Your posts seem to sound like you are 100% sure of everything you say, almost as if you were designing the game yourseld, yet I don't see where you are getting your evidence. Maybe I'm just optimistic, but I feel that in the Mike Marr interview he was referring to current creeps, and not those of generals. For someone who says he loves RTS so much, you seem to really thrive on idea that they aren't implementing it. Let me know when you get some really solid evidence to back up your story.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Let me know when you get some really solid evidence to back up your story.

Trigeminal for you i am not going to attack ToxDrawace.

Fact Demigod was designed by GPG off the Supcom engine.

Fact assassin all four are in the Beta First (The target market of the product)

Fact generals have went to a major redesign

Fact each general has one unique Creep there is a web site that shows you that creep

Fact game zone question: “There are dozens of minions on the battlefield but none can be influenced by the player”.

Fact Mike Marr “We found the Demigods so compelling and interesting to play that we elected to play to our strengths and focus on what made the game fun”.

Fact people go crazy in the forms then a new Journal Report is posted “While on paper having assassins play like they do now and have generals play like a Supreme Commander style RTS might sound good, that would be impossible to balance”.

So from this they have a problem a game has been marketed to have both elements of RPG and RTS. Then you change direction and play on your strengths IE no control and the people are upset so you are left with how to fix it and so this journal report is created. So that is my facts.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Seems logical, but this may be a bit of a leap. I am hoping it is. My hope is they found a great compromise. I am not looking for SupCom RTS in this game, but I am definately looking for control over my minions.

Successfully updated karma reason!