Making the Generals a General

from Demigod Forums

I though I'd contribute to the beta process by sharing an idea I had.


Problem: Generals don't really feel like Generals not because of their "direct" abilities but because of the shallowness of their General abilities.

What we need to address:

-Adding Stragetic choice to summoning units.

Problem: All this system is basically "cycling" through the troops while trying to get as much gold as possible to get the higher "up" troops, totally ignoring any stragety what so ever. There is no choice to what units you pick and there is no choice how you pick them. I cannot choose to have 10 minotaur guards and 2 Priests because I am limited to four. If the standard set up is to force players to chose 4 of every unit it will make no option in how you choose your group = no tactics = no fun

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-Adding power to Summoning Units

Problem: They are currently underpowered in that I do not focus my energy on "Leading" them. Rather I use them as "auxillary" troops instead of actually commanding them in combat. Further, the units themselves are very flat and stale, with no "power" tto them. You could make them "really powerful" but the nature of the game is set up that a minion's true apperciation can only come from it's quantity.

A Solution:

Starting changes-

Remove all Idols: You may summon all three of the main minions at the beginning of the game.

Minion Summoning: Minions are summoned one at a time with a minor cooldown and a sizable mana cost. (So I can spam all my minions quickly, just won't be able to do my skills) Minions must come in HORDES rather then a few elite troops for the reasons I have stated below. If they come in hordes, then each minion will have a "minion point" to them.  For Instance, a Minotaur =1 point. Archer =2 point. Priest =5 point Catapult Dinosaur =8 point* (none of the numbers balanced, it's just a model). That way, you can spam priests, but just not as much as you can minotaurs.

The more powerful a General gets, the more minions  he is able to control.

Commands

Insert "Commands": Instead of having idols that make minions stronger, players should be able to buy commands that make minions do something better. Each General has three "command slots" where he can buy a command. These commands give the minions special properties at different moments to add stragetic depth. Generals can have only one command at a a a time. I recommend that commands should cost mana and has a channel cost to sustain them so that players have a consequence toward indefinetly keeping commands)

I've made a list of how this could work


Scenario: I need to break them quickly before I go down. Example Command: One command could be "Glory to the death" where minions take damage but do more damage

Scenario: I need to send my minions to capture a flag and run back to the battle. Example Command: "Take arms to the fight" minions move faster

Scenario: I'm sitting here, doing nothing, and my priests aren't healing my guys fast enough "Rest your bodies, prepare your souls" where all minions heal over time while not in combat.

Scenario: I have a horde of guys, I need to siege this tower. Example Command: Do not stop till the siege is done. Minions are resistant to Tower Damage.

Scenario: I need my minions to kill this Demigod quickly. Example Command: Kill the Pretender. Minions deal X more damage to Demigods, (take X more damage from minions?)

Scenario: I need to hold these guys off until other reinforcmments come. Example Command: Hold the Line. Minions gain more defense.

Scenario: I'm dying, I need my minions to protect me. Example Command: Protect our God. Minions take a small percentage of damage divided equally amongst them/

Scenario: I'm about to die. Example Command: Our souls for the Gods All your minions die and you gain 10-30% of their life total.

I have about 10 more Scenarios I could write but I think the picture is made.

Now imagine this. I can choose THREE of these powers from above and can only use ONE of these powers at a time. Depending on the situation, depending on the demigod, depending on the buildstyle, I will make a General that will suit what I want. That's deep. That's fun.

 

About Minions:

I strongly, strongly recommend, that GENERALS SHOULD BE A WALKING WAVE. Generals don't fight. ARMIES FIGHT. Your not getting the satisfication of being a General without having an Army to command. Your not a precision fighter, your a mosh pit overlord. To be bluntly honest, this game is a tug of war slugfest, not a Fantasy RPG.


A level 10 General should have 20-30 Guys running around him. The player should say "I'm a God-General. Oh look, there's my God army." Not only should these 20-30 guys be different in terms of what makes them up, they should be given orders to handle certain situations, and they should be plentifully regenerated.

Players would find it incredibly fun if Generals could say "I'll create extra Catapult dinosaurs to siege the towers while you protect me from the minions." The Assasin says, okay. General then issues Command to give longer range to ranged Units and then battle begins. Instead, it's just grab all the guys, right click a tower, and have at it.

Magicscissors' recommendation overall:

Generals have 3 slots for commands that they buy in item shops. Commands cost mana to start and continue to eat mana as they are on

Generals are given X amount of points to summon Y amount of points worth of minions. I gain more minion points as I level. Some minions are cheap, some minions are expensive. Late Game Generals become walking minion waves, or an ARMY.

Minions are easily replienished. They have a rapid cooldown time and are summoned instantly. However, they eat mana like wildfire. So rebuilding your army after it's decimating will not allow you to do your actual "Abilities". (If you need those extra Siege monsters or keep the mana to finish off that demigod, you can do both efficently but not at the same time.)

 

In case General is OP, simple balance changes is all that will be necessary.

 

Thank you for reading this.

I have full confidence in Stardock.

Sincere Regards.

 

 

2,502 views 12 replies
Reply #1 from Demigod Forums Top

Two things:

1. Commands sound retarted, the should be demigod specific aura's

2. Demigod is made by GPG, not stardock....

For the rest, I agree, when your high level you should have a big army of around 20-40 dudes and being able to change your composition.

Reply #2 from Demigod Forums Top

I agree that Generals need some reworking, because right now they are just another Assasins with power to summon some minions. They shouldn't have direct damage skills, but they should have skills that give their minions power to fight for their general. The number of summonable minions need some testing, 20-30 seems very unreal. Right now you can summon only 12 minions(+special) and you won't usually know where they are right now or who are they attacking(it is very messy especially on Zikurat when multiple waves fight each other in the center of map and two generals join the fight).

Galactic Civilizations III
Reply #4 from Demigod Forums Top

I actually really like the Command idea. I'd totally name it something else, but I like the idea a lot.

I do hate the fact that Generals are Assassins who summon troops. Hell, the way I play Oak, I dont even buy minions anymore.

Reply #5 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting lifekatana, reply 3
Why unreal?
Imagine Zikurat crossroad in the center of map, where two waves of light and two waves of dark meet. That is about 50 units. Add to this three Generals with 30 units each and you get ultimate mess where you won't even know where enemy units are.

Reply #6 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting Magicscissors,

Problem: Generals don't really feel like Generals not because of their "direct" abilities but because of the shallowness of their General abilities.


I can't really make an informed comment about this until after playing the game. But from your description this sounds like it would bother me too.

Quoting Magicscissors,

-Adding Stragetic choice to summoning units.

Problem: All this system is basically "cycling" through the troops while trying to get as much gold as possible to get the higher "up" troops, totally ignoring any stragety what so ever. There is no choice to what units you pick and there is no choice how you pick them.


Perhaps the developers should implement a "build que"? You know, so players configure - even before battle starts - which units get priority over building others. And a preference (via a balance scales or slider bar) could be given over building lots of cheap units or a handful of powerhouses.

One build que that I really liked was the very visually-oriented system implemented in "Reach for the Stars" (the remake). But that's a really obscure strategy game and I doubt many here are familiar with it.

Quoting Magicscissors,

-Adding power to Summoning Units

Problem: They are currently underpowered in that I do not focus my energy on "Leading" them. Rather I use them as "auxillary" troops instead of actually commanding them in combat. Further, the units themselves are very flat and stale, with no "power" to them.


I do think that - for General types - emphasis should be added to powering up troops (instead of the General itself).

This is all the more important because, as others have stated, there does not sound to (currently) be much difference between General and Assassin types. And, also as others have stated, there is a problem with adding too many troops. The latter could create tremendous lag and CPU overhead if enough troops and players are active at the same time on the same map.

Reply #7 from Demigod Forums Top

great idea man

if they fix the autoattack issues especially those of minions bc its quite annoying for gameplay, generals could work as a "portal" sending minions into the fight (and not caring too much about losing them), rather than just having a minion bodyguard troop. Generals would control the overall pushing etc and decide where to fight and assasins help the push and try to take out the enemy generals and assasins.

thats how i picture demigod at its release :]

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Reply #8 from Demigod Forums Top

This would be one of the best General implementations. The only problem is they won't implement it because they want to keep the system reqs to a minimum. Unit counts is one of the things that racks up the CPU requirements massively - they've been burned by SupCom on that count.

Reply #9 from Demigod Forums Top

Most of this should be fixed once Star/Gas finally add in the castle feature, where the generals will be able to build a barracks and recruit their army.

Reply #10 from Demigod Forums Top

I like the general direction of the suggestions. I also feel the current model for the generals is not what the name implies. A very simple idea would be to  just giving them the power to control creeps within a limited range around them.

A more developed version of this idea would be that the minions could act as captains and give a special ability to the creeps under its control. For example one could be a combat, another could be defense and another speed. They could auto attract "free creeps" when one of the attached creeps dies. For example a minion would get six (6) followers automatically from creeps around it. Then in combat if any of those die any other friendly creeps nearby auto join the minion. The general gives an area effect bonus and or has some magic stuff to augment the captains and their micro legions.

Reply #11 from Demigod Forums Top

I definitely agree. The way they are played right now, Generals aren't much worse than Assassins one-on-one. They can drop light towers faster and easier than assassins, because of siege cannoneers. As they can solo enemy Assassins and also have 12 troops + spirits or night walkers at their command, the balance is sort of questionable. Erebus has an instant, relatively well-damaging, self-healing, quickly-recharging, cheap spell. With bat form he can fly up to a melee and wipe out the enemy creep wave, getting himself a full compliment of night walkers at the same time. Oak can power up his already-impressive weapon damage simply by standing near a battle, he can regenerate his own health and the health of his minions by killing things, he can become invincible for a few seconds, avoiding your stun attack, and when you think you've finally killed him he gets up 50% faster and stronger and does it all over again. These characters play more like brawlers and thugs than leaders.


On the other hand, making general abilities more powerful concerning troops seems like it would be tougher to play than just "Get in their face and hit them with a very large hammer". It would have to be more effective to justify the practice of getting good at it - which then makes the trusty old hammer obsolete, which is a whole new can of worms.